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babylonsister

(171,066 posts)
Sat Apr 1, 2017, 05:15 PM Apr 2017

Judge: Trump Incited Violence Against Protesters At Kentucky Rally

Judge: Trump Incited Violence Against Protesters At Kentucky Rally
John Bazemore
Alice Ollstein
April 1, 2017


A federal judge in Kentucky is allowing a lawsuit by three protesters assaulted at a Donald Trump campaign rally last March to move forward, agreeing with the plaintiffs that Trump's call from the podium for his supporters to "get 'em out of here" incited rally-goers to physically attack them.

The three protesters have sued Trump for incitement, vicarious liability, negligence, gross negligence, and recklessness.

The opinion, from U.S. District Judge David J. Hale of the Western District of Kentucky, denied most of Trump's motion to dismiss the charges, saying that his angry demand for the removal of the protesters was "particularly reckless."

He cites testimony from one of the assailants—a known member of a white nationalist group—saying he began shoving the young African American woman protester after hearing Trump's call to "get them out."

more...

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/trump-rally-violence-court-incitemet?utm_content=buffer129f3&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer

38 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Judge: Trump Incited Violence Against Protesters At Kentucky Rally (Original Post) babylonsister Apr 2017 OP
Trump? Being sued? Who could imagine? guillaumeb Apr 2017 #1
Excuse me for cutting the line here but why weren't criminal charges of assault brought against Maraya1969 Apr 2017 #18
And the person who incited to violence as well? guillaumeb Apr 2017 #33
How many times do these people DK504 Apr 2017 #36
K & R. n/t rzemanfl Apr 2017 #2
Great decision, he was out of line. But I'm hesitant to get excited about a report like this... George II Apr 2017 #3
FYI: It's also being reported on US News and World Report under an AP byline... Princess Turandot Apr 2017 #5
Thanks. I've already see a lot of people on DU getting all excited about George Takei...... George II Apr 2017 #6
Dont judge us Soxfan58 Apr 2017 #30
It's not a joke, Ms. Toad Apr 2017 #32
K&R fleabiscuit Apr 2017 #4
Like iluvtennis Apr 2017 #7
He incited violence against journalists, especially Katy Tur. She was escorted to her car... Hekate Apr 2017 #8
Lock me up!!!11 jpak Apr 2017 #9
As a expatriated Kentuckian, let me just say this Fritz Walter Apr 2017 #10
Distractions galore! kentuck Apr 2017 #11
Well start a go fund me account for ya busterbrown Apr 2017 #14
But...but he said no one can sue the President of the Unites States? Crash2Parties Apr 2017 #12
Whoa! How many lawsuits are there against this asshole? calimary Apr 2017 #13
I wonder if taxpayers flip the bill for something like this JDC Apr 2017 #15
Most excellent malaise Apr 2017 #16
A good prosecutor would be able to charge Trump with assault using this Jonny Appleseed Apr 2017 #17
at this stage, all the judge has found is that the plaintiff's claim is "plausible" onenote Apr 2017 #29
Freaking asshole.. not only not calling his fans on their viciousness Cha Apr 2017 #19
KNR Lucinda Apr 2017 #20
K&R myrna minx Apr 2017 #21
Trump was merely doing what we should expect from a leader ... Martin Eden Apr 2017 #22
Looks like Matty Heimbach spilled the beans. Whoops. Mc Mike Apr 2017 #23
Libel against someone, threatening someone, yelling fire in a crowded theater, inciting a riot.. Stuart G Apr 2017 #24
Hate speech is not free speech. roamer65 Apr 2017 #25
The GOP ran to court over Bill Clinton and Paula Jones. Demsrule86 Apr 2017 #26
Kick. dalton99a Apr 2017 #27
Sorry, but the TP story is very misleading. onenote Apr 2017 #28
I just logged to add something like this. Ms. Toad Apr 2017 #31
+1 onenote Apr 2017 #37
Was that the rally where the old white guy sucker punched the black guy out of the blue? Vinca Apr 2017 #34
This is good news. Hope it goes all the way. aikoaiko Apr 2017 #35
K&R red dog 1 Apr 2017 #38

Maraya1969

(22,480 posts)
18. Excuse me for cutting the line here but why weren't criminal charges of assault brought against
Sat Apr 1, 2017, 10:27 PM
Apr 2017

the people pushing that girl around????

I wondered why she was just kind of standing there and not running and then I realized that they were all around her and she probably felt fearful.

If a group had me completely surrounded and were pushing me I wouldn't know where to walk to and I might just stand there too.

Here is the video on Youtube:

guillaumeb

(42,641 posts)
33. And the person who incited to violence as well?
Sun Apr 2, 2017, 12:19 PM
Apr 2017

Trump incited these bullies.

One hopes that the District Attorney, after review, upgrades to criminal assault. But Trump will not be touched.

DK504

(3,847 posts)
36. How many times do these people
Sun Apr 2, 2017, 12:25 PM
Apr 2017

who are exercising their 1st Amendment right of free speech?

That old man definitely needs to be charged. Imagine that at a packed event people getting jostled around....oh noes.

George II

(67,782 posts)
3. Great decision, he was out of line. But I'm hesitant to get excited about a report like this...
Sat Apr 1, 2017, 05:56 PM
Apr 2017

...on April 1. Hopefully it's not a joke.

George II

(67,782 posts)
6. Thanks. I've already see a lot of people on DU getting all excited about George Takei......
Sat Apr 1, 2017, 06:36 PM
Apr 2017

....running for Congress.

Ms. Toad

(34,073 posts)
32. It's not a joke,
Sun Apr 2, 2017, 10:54 AM
Apr 2017

But it means almost nothing.

See my explanation below about the standard for a motion to dismiss.

Hekate

(90,700 posts)
8. He incited violence against journalists, especially Katy Tur. She was escorted to her car...
Sat Apr 1, 2017, 06:37 PM
Apr 2017

...by the Secret Service at the end of one particularly vicious episode. Kudos to the Men in Black for protecting her.

Need I point out that Katy is a very young, slender, innocent-looking, and non-threatening woman? DTs really hates female journos, has contempt for them as he does all women (witness his recent treatment of Robin -- sorry, her full name escapes me -- a black woman with 20 years experience in DC). But he really gets off on inciting mob violence, and the Katy Tur incidents were egregious.

I wish these protestors every success in their lawsuit, and hope they have a good pro bono lawyer.

Fritz Walter

(4,291 posts)
10. As a expatriated Kentuckian, let me just say this
Sat Apr 1, 2017, 06:51 PM
Apr 2017

Please, please, please, impanel me on the jury that tries this case.
I promise to be objective, and try this case on its merits without prejudice and other considerations.
I'll even pay my own travel expenses, and forego the allowance for expenses (lost wages and parking).

I just want to be part of the judicial process that tells the pee-Resident that he's responsible for this deplorable behavior and must pay the consequences.

kentuck

(111,098 posts)
11. Distractions galore!
Sat Apr 1, 2017, 06:59 PM
Apr 2017

If it's not Flynn asking for immunity to spill the beans on Donald, then it is the staff salaries in the White House - with Queen Ivanka - or it is somebody suing the Donald?

Only one of those three possibilities is not a distraction.

calimary

(81,281 posts)
13. Whoa! How many lawsuits are there against this asshole?
Sat Apr 1, 2017, 07:14 PM
Apr 2017

The last figure I saw, during the campaign, was at least 3500. Wonder what the count is now?

onenote

(42,704 posts)
29. at this stage, all the judge has found is that the plaintiff's claim is "plausible"
Sun Apr 2, 2017, 09:48 AM
Apr 2017

while acknowledging that certain of Trump's defenses also may be plausible. The bar for overcoming a motion to dismiss in a civil case is very low. Lower than the ultimate standard in a civil case (preponderance of the evidence) and much much lower than the standard in a criminal case (beyond a reasonable doubt). At this stage, I can't imagine a prosecutor bringing charges.

Cha

(297,251 posts)
19. Freaking asshole.. not only not calling his fans on their viciousness
Sun Apr 2, 2017, 01:10 AM
Apr 2017

but inciting them to escalate.

Mc Mike

(9,114 posts)
23. Looks like Matty Heimbach spilled the beans. Whoops.
Sun Apr 2, 2017, 08:37 AM
Apr 2017

dRumpfenfuhrer also said several times in his campaign speeches that he'd pay for lawyers if fans attacked protestors.

Heimbach's group stabbed a bunch of anti-nazi protestors in SacTo at a nazi rally they held during the elections.

Stuart G

(38,427 posts)
24. Libel against someone, threatening someone, yelling fire in a crowded theater, inciting a riot..
Sun Apr 2, 2017, 08:54 AM
Apr 2017

...From what I read, that is what limits freedom of speech..

Trump...went against number four, inciting a riot. That is illegal..I wonder how this will be handled.??...

I got it.....Lock him up...!!!!!

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
25. Hate speech is not free speech.
Sun Apr 2, 2017, 09:03 AM
Apr 2017

It endangers the right of others to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Demsrule86

(68,578 posts)
26. The GOP ran to court over Bill Clinton and Paula Jones.
Sun Apr 2, 2017, 09:36 AM
Apr 2017

SCOTUS unanimously rules that the lawsuit could proceed...it make me happy to see how the GOP is finally facing karma...and karma is a bitch.

onenote

(42,704 posts)
28. Sorry, but the TP story is very misleading.
Sun Apr 2, 2017, 09:40 AM
Apr 2017

Not to rain on the parade, but the judge in this case did not find that Trump incited violence. He merely found, applying the low-bar standard applicable to ruling on motions to dismiss, that the plaintiffs, whose allegations must be taken as true for purposes of ruling on the motion, had stated facts that supported a "plausible" (not necessarily probable) case against Trump. To the extent the judge "cites" or "finds" the things as claimed in the article, in most instances, he was merely reciting what the complaint alleges -- not any finding on his part.

Yes, its a good thing that the court allowed the case to continue instead of dismissing it outright. But defeating a motion to dismiss is not the same thing as winning a case.

Ms. Toad

(34,073 posts)
31. I just logged to add something like this.
Sun Apr 2, 2017, 10:50 AM
Apr 2017

Non-legal reporters pretty frequently get legal opinions wrong - especially when the opinion is about preliminarly dispositive rulings.

The court has to take all of the alleged facts as absolutely true - and evaluate whehter a jury, without completely ignoring the law, could find against the defendant based on those assumed-true facts.

That standard - which allows the case to survive -

  • Ignores whether the facts, as alleged are true or not
  • Ignores any defenses the other side may offer
  • Ignores the weight of the evidence


  • Essentially all the plaintiff had to do, in order to survive a motion to dismiss was to identify the legal claim (e.g. incitement to riot), and make up some facts that match each element of the claim. (If they were actually made up, the attorney would be in trouble - but the claim would still survive a motion to dismiss, becase the facts alleged have to be taken as true at this stage of the case.)

    It is an extremely low bar. Motions to dismiss have such a low standard, that losing a motion to dismiss is more indicative of attorney incompetence than anything else - incompetence in bringing a case that is not supported at all by the law (one barred by statute because it was filed too late, for example) , incompetence in drafting a complaint that fails to allege an essential element of the claim (here, for example, if they had failed to recite any statements made by Trump that could actually incite violence), or incomptence in drafting a complaint without enough clarity as to what the claim is (e.g. I've seen claims that are just fat-dump rants against the other side ending in a claim for money, that never identify what it is - legally - they believe the defendant did wrong.)

    Vinca

    (50,273 posts)
    34. Was that the rally where the old white guy sucker punched the black guy out of the blue?
    Sun Apr 2, 2017, 12:21 PM
    Apr 2017

    BLOTUS should suck it up and bring out the checkbook BIGLY.

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