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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDHS made a "last ditch effort" to stop Russia from interfering in the actual election process BUT
Last edited Tue Apr 4, 2017, 03:50 AM - Edit history (12)
DHS faced a "backlash" from state and federal governments who viewed that push as Federal overreach, and were reluctant to participate, according to a top Homeland Security advisor.
Also, at least one key state -- Wisconsin -- had voting machines that could have been connected to the internet while voting was taking place -- despite the warnings all states had from the Obama administration.
So how do we know that the Russians did NOT interfere? Are we just taking the word of states who didn't want to accept Federal efforts to help them increase the security of the voting process?
HOMELAND SECURITY ADVISOR EXPLAINS THERE WAS BACKLASH FROM SOME STATES ABOUT SECURING THEIR ELECTION SYSTEMS:
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/obama-russia-hacking-trump-214976
Monaco says thats because the Obama administration was at the time focused on seeking cooperation for a last-ditch effort by the Department of Homeland Security to avoid Russian tampering in the actual voting process. But the administration, she said, faced a backlash from state and local governments who viewed the DHS cybersecurity election push as a big federal takeover and were reluctant to cooperate.
DEC. 16: SOME OF WISCONSIN'S VOTING MACHINES WERE CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET
http://www.alternet.org/election-2016/new-video-experts-say-wisconsin-voting-machines-can-be-hacked
Filmmaker Lulu Friesdat was on the ground in Wisconsin during the recount. This is her third report in a three-part series taking advantage of the unique opportunity that the recount offers to look behind the scenes at a process that is often obscured from view.
Weve added a fourth and final part to the series that includes a fascinating breakdown of just how close the race was and gives an overview of the whole report. Be sure and check back for that.
AUGUST 29, 2016, HOMELAND SECURITY OFFERS STATES HELP IN SECURING VOTING SYSTEMS
https://gcn.com/articles/2016/08/29/election-system-hack.aspx
Officials think the hacks in Arizona and Illinois could be connected because there was an IP address that appeared in both attacks. On cybersecurity professional told Yahoo that one of the IP addresses listed in the alert has shown up in connection with Russian hacker forums.
To help states harden their systems, the FBI shared a number of security measures via the Multi-State Information Sharing and Analysis Center (MS-ISAC). Recommendations included conducting vulnerability scans, patching software and applications, validating user input before forwarding to a database and using static queries.
AUGUST 17, 2016, HOMELAND SECURITY URGES STATES TO SECURE VOTING SYSTEMS; "MOST STATES" THINK THEY'RE ALREADY IN GOOD SHAPE
https://gcn.com/articles/2016/08/17/dhs-voting-security.aspx
He also advised state officials to heed recommendations from the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the U.S. Election Assistance Commission that electronic voting machines not be connected to the internet while voting is underway.
It was the first time DHS has convened a discussion on election security, state officials who were on the call told FCW, a sister site to GCN. They said the call was productive, with the agency not only providing its advice to states for voting system cybersecurity, but with states telling DHS about their precautions in a contentious election cycle.
"The states feel, for the most part, that they're in good shape" cybersecurity-wise, as most have made sure their systems are self-contained and not internet-facing, said one representative who agreed to speak on background.
eppur_se_muova
(36,266 posts)LOL Lib
(1,462 posts)underthematrix
(5,811 posts)is too stupid to know they need to be saved.
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)KittyWampus
(55,894 posts)LOL Lib
(1,462 posts)Given all that they have done and continue to do via the internet, hacking voting machine software seems at least possible. There were reports of voting machines being left unsecured in NC. I'm sure it is not out of the realm of possibility.
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)only need two to four midsize counties in each state. i know they altered the way the VOTE was counted because that's what the Obama administration was trying to address while all the other Russian coup stuff was going on.
This passage is from an article yesterday asking if [President] Obama should be blamed for the Russian hacking:
Link to tweet
underthematrix
(5,811 posts)birtherism for years which was actually a lie. I doubt DU ever stopped anyone from posting and spreading that racist bullshit.
Russia hacking the election to get the result they wanted is actually based on FACTS and evidence. Pay attention
world wide wally
(21,744 posts)notdarkyet
(2,226 posts)elleng
(130,956 posts)world wide wally
(21,744 posts)Who is the crazy one if we allow this madman to run our country?
TrollBuster9090
(5,954 posts)so it couldn't be hacked, and some States (hard-core Red States) refused.
Coincidentally, some of the Red States that refused were Red States that the pollsters predicted might tip to Clinton. And on election night, to everybody's surprise, they went Trump.
At the time the story didn't have traction because most people either didn't believe the Russian attack was serious, or were more distracted by the faux Clinton email scandal.
But this story deserves a closer look.
keopeli
(3,522 posts)How many were Democrats?
Did any Republicans at all accept assistance?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I think that is the best solution for many reasons.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Plus, turnout's good, and people don't have to take 4 hours off of work to wait in line to vote.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)To remove the pressure to take off half of a certain day. Which makes the election such a spectacle. Why not make it easier on the voters?
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)ballots in.
I think that's more than enough time for everyone, and like I said, turnout far exceeds the national average.
Ezior
(505 posts)the easier it is for someone to tamper with them.
I actually try to vote on election day whenever possible. Of course, it usually only takes a few minutes since we have a lot of polling places in Germany. I've never had to wait longer than maybe 3 minutes.
Voting by mail is less safe & secure, because mail might be lost and you have to trust the guys to correctly handle it. At polling places in Germany, the whole process is open for observation by anyone, starting from the time the polling place opens until all votes are counted and the counts submitted. You could then check the official results to see if the counts for your polling place were transmitted correctly & sums are correct. So I feel more comfortable casting my vote there.
HoneyBadger
(2,297 posts)Immigrants, digital nomads, RVers, homeless, students, etc.
Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)Oregon tries to make it easier to vote, not harder, like in red states where the Rs engage in voter suppression regularly.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)And if we don't want to use the postal system, we can take a ballot to an official elections office box.
People in Washington and Oregon are very satisfied with our voting system -- and more than 70% voted in November, far more than in most states.
IndianaDave
(612 posts)We REALLY need to vote these idiots out of office.
forjusticethunders
(1,151 posts)spanone
(135,843 posts)mopinko
(70,113 posts)security experts. everyone says it would be impossible to tell w/o a paper trail. but it is just hard for me to believe there would really be zero evidence on a forensic audit like what top ic/law would bring to bear.
brooklynite
(94,588 posts)pnwmom
(108,980 posts)One of the reasons I objected to the Jill Stein recount was how it was going to be carried out. The end result yielded an increased confidence in the voting system that wasn't justified. They failed to get the courts to order a full recount in PA. In Michigan, no recount was carried out in counties where they found discrepancies (more below). And Wisconsin used some electronic machines with no paper trail.
Other things we know:
25 states use optical scanners that have the option for internet connectivity; they produce paper trails but the paper isn't routinely audited. The government has not checked to see if the "option" has been used.
Other states use electronic machines with no paper trails. They can't be audited. Florida, which had such a large discrepancy between early voting and final results, uses those machines in some of its biggest (and most Democratic) counties. Pennsylvania also uses electronic machines in some of its counties.
In Michigan when they did a recount their state law did not allow them to carry out a recount on any county for which there was a discrepancy between the number of votes on the sign-in sheet and that recorded in the machine -- the very districts most people would want to have recounted. Also, some of the machines weren't recounted because the seals had been broken. Also, almost twice as many people (87K) voted but supposedly skipped the Presidential race as in 2012 (49K.)
In Wisconsin, they discovered that some of their machines DID have the internet connectivity option.
When in August the Federal government was urging states to make their voting systems more secure, they faced pushback from the states. "Most states" felt their systems were already secure. They resisted having voting systems being declared "critical infrastructure."
So with that attitude from the states and no one auditing all the states (or even capable of auditing all the states with electronic machines) why should anyone feel confident that the election wasn't hacked in at least some states?
brooklynite
(94,588 posts)What candidates and political leaders believe IS an issue is the verifiable efforts to suppress voter turnout. Which wouldn't be necessary if you could just change the votes at the end of the process.
What is also an issue is the verifiable series of tactical mistakes that the Clinton campaign made, which helped her lose Ohio, Pennsylvania and Michigan.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)having had correct results. So they're not exactly unbiased (even if they're not conscious of the bias or culpable in any way).
And the FACT is that the Obama administration was very concerned about election system security, and tried to get states to harden their security, with mixed results -- and some pushback.
And it is a FACT that some states use electronic machines with no paper trails and others use optical scan systems whose paper is never audited.
It is also a FACT that respected statisticians in academia -- not just "bloggers" -- are concerned about security of our voting systems.
Knowing what we now know about Russian hacking capabilities, those elected leaders are failing us.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/22/1603289/-MIT-professor-cryptographer-UC-Berkeley-statistician-call-for-a-presidential-election-audit
MIT and UC Berkeley professors call for Presidential Election Audit
https://www.yahoo.com/tech/critical-discovery-during-wisconsin-recount-cellular-connectivity-tabulators-131700727.html
brooklynite
(94,588 posts)...and NONE have said they lost due to vote flipping
It is a FACT that Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren don't agree with you. Or are they hiding "the truth"?
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)were good enough?
Pre-election, the Obama administration was trying -- and failing, in many cases -- to get states to harden their security.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/22/1603289/-MIT-professor-cryptographer-UC-Berkeley-statistician-call-for-a-presidential-election-audit
MIT and UC Berkeley professors call for Presidential Election Audit
brooklynite
(94,588 posts)Add to which, I've talked personally to several Party Chairs; they offer sensible reasons why Clinton lost. They don't say hacking was involved.
You seem to have decided that hacking occurred, and are searching for evidence to support your belief. I don't apply that policy.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)have come to light. Also, I saw what a joke the Jill Stein audits were.
I wanted to believe that the Obama administration had this under control, but I have less confidence in that now.
And it's ridiculous to keep saying that "no evidence has been found" of hacking when they are not looking for any evidence.
Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)Last edited Tue Apr 4, 2017, 10:00 PM - Edit history (1)
http://www.alternet.org/new-video-watch-wisconsin-election-officials-reject-hand-counts-after-electronic-scanners-make-bigAlso this on Wisconsin:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/01/24/russians-suspected-hacking-wisconsin-dems/97023222/
kick
Turbineguy
(37,337 posts)The people that enabled the Russian Mole in the story were "conservatives and golfers".
American conservatives have been helping America's enemies for a long time. And it's working. I'm glad John le Carré is alive to see what's happening here.
malaise
(269,026 posts)that is all
moondust
(19,988 posts)Q: Would Scott "Koch" Walker do something that evil?
A: Of course he would.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)The DHS, FBI, NSA, CIA...the ICA, all say no Russian vote swap in their January report.
https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf
"DHS assesses that the types of systems Russian actors targeted or compromised were not involved in vote tallying."