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BeyondGeography

(39,375 posts)
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 04:58 PM Apr 2017

Trump's newfound love for intervention wins over the FP establishment that Obama spurned

It’s time America explored how to end the multiple wars it has helped cause since 2001, rather than dropping more bombs

Patrick Coburn, The Independent

War-whoops and loud applause from foreign policy establishments and their media supporters have greeted President Trump’s missile strike in Syria, the dropping of the world’s largest non-nuclear bomb on Afghanistan and the dispatch of a naval task force in the direction of North Korea.

...Whatever Trump’s precise motives, his sudden fondness for the use of armed force shows that what President Obama criticised as “the Washington playbook” is back in business as the guide for conduct of American foreign policy. “It’s a playbook that comes out of the foreign-policy establishment,” said Obama in an interview with Jeffrey Goldberg of the Atlantic Monthly last year. “And the playbook prescribes responses to different events, and these responses tend to be militarised responses.”

...Simple-minded though some of Trump’s declarations might appear, others were more realistic than anything said by Hillary Clinton or Senator John McCain.

In Syria, for instance, the main problem for the US and its allies is and has long been that, though they would very much like to get rid of Assad, the only alternative appears to be anarchy or the empowerment of Isis and al-Qaeda clones. Clinton’s policy, insofar as she had one, was to pretend that there already existed, or could be created, a “third force” in Syria that would fight and ultimately replace both Isis and Assad. This is the sort of fantasy that is frequently common currency among think tanks and dedicated experts, often retired generals or diplomats working as TV commentators.

...There is nothing quite so frightened or ferocious in the world as an established order that is subjected to criticism questioning its core beliefs. Hence the embarrassing relief shown by so many world leaders, academic specialists and media commentators at the news that the direction and management of US foreign policy is returning to its old norms. Their optimism may be premature but they would clearly welcome a Trump administration neutered of any radical intentions.

Ignored in this is the fact that the militarised options favoured by “the Washington playbook” that Obama came to so despise have produced little but disaster in the post-9/11 era and are likely to do so again. Almost everything advocated by the Washington foreign policy establishment since the start of the war in Afghanistan in 2001, Iraq in 2003, Libya and Syria in 2011 and Yemen in 2015 has created or exacerbated the conflicts. Note that none of these wars have ended or show much sign of doing so.

...Goldberg says that Obama “questioned, often harshly, the role that America’s Sunni Arab allies play in fomenting anti-American terrorism. He is clearly irritated that foreign policy orthodoxy compels him to treat Saudi Arabia as an ally.” He had similar misgivings about US links to Pakistan.

TV channels and op-ed writers who treat the expertise of Washington think tanks with such fawning reverence should reflect on the Obama White House’s view of these institutions. Goldberg, who spoke to Obama and his staff over a long period, reports: “A widely held sentiment inside the White House is that many of the most prominent foreign policy think tanks in Washington are doing the bidding of their Arab and pro-Israel funders. I’ve heard one administration official refer to Massachusetts Avenue, the home of many of these think tanks, as ‘Arab-occupied territory’.”

More at http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/donald-trump-moab-bomb-syria-afghanistan-libya-wars-caused-middle-east-a7684181.html
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Trump's newfound love for intervention wins over the FP establishment that Obama spurned (Original Post) BeyondGeography Apr 2017 OP
That Obama interview was amazing and much overlooked underpants Apr 2017 #1
Indeed BeyondGeography Apr 2017 #3
Dear god , lets not question whether nocalflea Apr 2017 #2
I am confused when Coburn talks about Clinton's policy. delisen Apr 2017 #4
She criticized his approach to Syria BeyondGeography Apr 2017 #5
Thank you. So this "stupid shit comment" was presumably Obama's delisen Apr 2017 #6
It's a good question BeyondGeography Apr 2017 #7
since i read the excellent pitt the younger in my oration books pansypoo53219 Apr 2017 #8

nocalflea

(1,387 posts)
2. Dear god , lets not question whether
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 05:10 PM
Apr 2017

to spend our money and blood in a den of vipers that is the middle-east.Sounds more like the carping of hurt egos than viable policy.

delisen

(6,044 posts)
4. I am confused when Coburn talks about Clinton's policy.
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 05:40 PM
Apr 2017

I believe that President Obama was fully in control of his administration and made the decisions to use military in each case. Clinton was Secy of State during Obama's first term.

If anyone knows otherwise-that Obama was not making the decisions please post.

BeyondGeography

(39,375 posts)
5. She criticized his approach to Syria
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 05:54 PM
Apr 2017

and, by extension, the foundations of his FP, after she left. From The Atlantic article; link is above and in the Coburn article:

Hillary Clinton, when she was Obama’s secretary of state, argued for an early and assertive response to Assad’s violence. In 2014, after she left office, Clinton told me that “the failure to help build up a credible fighting force of the people who were the originators of the protests against Assad … left a big vacuum, which the jihadists have now filled.”

When The Atlantic published this statement, and also published Clinton’s assessment that “great nations need organizing principles, and?‘Don’t do stupid stuff’ is not an organizing principle,” Obama became “rip-shit angry,” according to one of his senior advisers. The president did not understand how “Don’t do stupid shit” could be considered a controversial slogan. Ben Rhodes recalls that “the questions we were asking in the White House were ‘Who exactly is in the stupid-shit caucus? Who is pro–stupid shit?’?”

The Iraq invasion, Obama believed, should have taught Democratic interventionists like Clinton, who had voted for its authorization, the dangers of doing stupid shit. (Clinton quickly apologized to Obama for her comments, and a Clinton spokesman announced that the two would “hug it out” on Martha’s Vineyard when they crossed paths there later.)

delisen

(6,044 posts)
6. Thank you. So this "stupid shit comment" was presumably Obama's
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 06:33 PM
Apr 2017

assessment of Clinton, Biden, and Kerry vote on Iraq.

Kerry and Biden had voted against the first Gulf War (George Bush Senior) Clinton was not yet a senator at the time. I've wondered why Biden and Kerry became interventionist after 2001.

I have also wondered why Obama had brought these three close in his administration, considering his judgement on doing stupid things.

Of course there were political reasons but what were the qualities that gave these three interventionists power in Obama's administration, beyond the political reasons?



BeyondGeography

(39,375 posts)
7. It's a good question
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 06:46 PM
Apr 2017

Maybe the sad answer is the Democrats with the most FP experience tend to be pro-intervention. If you look at the D-Senators who voted against IWR, eg, not too many obvious choices for SoS in there:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/r...

Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Boxer (D-CA)
Byrd (D-WV)
Chafee (R-RI)
Conrad (D-ND)
Corzine (D-NJ)
Dayton (D-MN)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Graham (D-FL)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Leahy (D-VT)
Levin (D-MI)
Mikulski (D-MD)
Murray (D-WA)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)
Stabenow (D-MI)
Wellstone (D-MN)
Wyden (D-OR)

pansypoo53219

(20,981 posts)
8. since i read the excellent pitt the younger in my oration books
Sat Apr 15, 2017, 08:26 PM
Apr 2017

against war w/ napoleon. and the more i learned about the idiocy of the dulles brothers. just say no.

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