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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsComey did more to defeat Hillary than Putin or Trump. No book worth its salt can deny that !
Last edited Sat Apr 22, 2017, 11:42 AM - Edit history (1)
There is much discussion of Jonathan Allen's and Amie Parnes ' book Shattered which is an autopsy of the Clinton campaign. I am an avid sports fan so I normally eschew post hoc explanations for losses which usually focus on injuries and/or the referees. But in this instance there is definitely a "there" there. Did she make mistakes? I am sure she did. Did her campaigns make mistakes? I am sure they did. However she won the pop vote by some 3,000,000 votes and lost the archaic Electoral College by some 70,000 votes. That Electoral College loss is painfully close. Trump was dead in the water after the pu$$y grabbing brouhaha. He needed a freaking miracle and Comey's revelation that he was reopening the Clinton investigation was that miracle.
This is self evident. What if Comey had revealed at the same time Trump was being investigated for colluding with the Russians which he had proof of?
I am sure it's an interesting book. I enjoyed Allen's book HRC. But It too early and painful to read. You will never convince me that Comey publicizing Hillary's investigation while ignoring Trump's more consequential one didn't tip the balance. Looked at it in its worst light Hillary acted carelessly, Trump acted traitorously.
On edit- On the bright side if Trump is really a pinata that is eminently and easily beatable by anybody we should easily be able to kick the GOP's asses in 018 and his ass in 020
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)Even if every bit of the email accusations were true, it was not that big a deal, especially compared to the crud Trump has done and would do as Prez.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)If Comey wanted to be transparent he should have said they were both under investigation which they were.
I feel sorry for Hillary. I feel infinitely more sorry for our nation.
At the end of the day the author's thesis is that if she was a better candidate and had a better team she would have won despite Comey's shenanigans. IMHO, it is impossible to underestimate the effects of his revelations coming so close to the election. That is exactly why the DOJ strongly discourages such revelations.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)of email.
Personally, I think the ignorant white wingers went for someone who was spouting the kind of hatred they have been searching for in a candidate.
heaven05
(18,124 posts)I agree with your "personally".
brush
(53,841 posts)Clinton defeated a much stronger opponent in Sanders in the primaries than trump had to deal with. She won all the GE debates. Her oppo research crew had the trump campaign on the ropes and reeling (Access Hollywood grope tape) until Oct. 28, 2016 and we all know what happened then.
What I'm beginning too wonder is if there is a vast right/centrist/left wing conspiracy piling on Hillary as having run such a disastrous campaign that it couldn't help but lose so they can avoid acknowledging the huge elephant in the room that is the Comey/Putin/Assange/Interstate Crosscheck nexus that stole the damn election.
You see it in books, newspaper and magazine articles, on web sites, many cable pundits are called on to rattle off their bulleted lists of why Clinton lost, you hear it on satellite radio (just yesterday Eleanor Cliff was on the Michaelangelo Senorile show doing that exactly), and none of them ever mention Comey/Putin/Assange/Interstate Crosscheck. It's a total news blackout on the real reasons trump "won" despite having lost by 3m votes.
Why is that? The election was stolen.
What are these people up to, trying to normalize trump and his campaign so that we all just accept the theft? Is that a thing we, the US, does when elections are stolen Gore in 2000, Kerry in 2004 we're just supposed to roll over and take it and write books and articles and such to cover it up?
It's totally frustrating to me that no one talks about the real reasons for the lost, the prime and most direct one being Comey coming out with announcing a new investigation on Clinton and not announcing his investigation on trump as well.
They know what really happened just as we do. They don't even have to say the election was "stolen" if they want to be journalistically "safe", just at least cite that Comey only divulged one investigation that the FBI was conducting and not the parallel one of trump as a huge reason for the outcome of the election.
Voltaire2
(13,135 posts)anyone associated with the campaign?
2naSalit
(86,775 posts)and his being married to HRC's personal admin assistant was all they had.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)That cretin just happened to be married to Huma Abedin, Hillary's closest confidante. Should Hillary have thrown a friend under the bus ? In retrospect it would have been better for the nation if she did. Could I throw a friend under the bus? That's a tough one.
Here's the freaking money shot. They found bupkis on Wiener's computer that tied him to Hillary. Comey announced that too but it was too late.
Voltaire2
(13,135 posts)but one would think that after experiencing the non-stop assault on the Clintons from 92-2000, and knowing that she was in for more of the same, anyone with even a whiff of impropriety would have to be removed from the campaign team. Sure it would have been unfair to Abedin, but there was too much at stake to be concerned with that.
LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)asking for a friend...
FreepFryer
(7,077 posts)Sculpin Beauregard
(1,046 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)LaydeeBug
(10,291 posts)brush
(53,841 posts)JTFrog
(14,274 posts)I don't trust anyone running around saying good things about this book.
Period.
DemocratSinceBirth
(99,711 posts)The wikileaks weren't helpful but Comey's revelations ten days before the campaign was the proverbial straw that broke the camel's back.
Jonathan Allen's book HRC was a great read. Any way I guess it's easy to say someone lost because they suck.
JTFrog
(14,274 posts)dlk
(11,575 posts)The endless misogyny hurled at Hillary Clinton throughout her campaign was beyond breathtaking for a purportedly first world society. "Shattered" is just another moneymaking enterprise based on such. No thanks!
StevieM
(10,500 posts)stonecutter357
(12,697 posts)still_one
(92,378 posts)because they were part of it
When Comey sent the email letter to the republicans in congress, MSNBC was the first network to report that the FBI had reopened the email investigation. That was a LIE. For the next two hours MSNBC then proceeded every right wing politician across its screen propagating that lie. It wasn't long before every news outlet was propagating the same LIE
They are as culpable as Comey, maybe even more because they knew that letter didn't mean the email investigation was reopened
MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)heaven05
(18,124 posts)Comey did what I have no doubt was an attempt to steer the election away from the popularity, as shown by the polls at the time, of HRC, which the despicable deplorables, their congressional helpers and all the MSM ate up. No coincidence, any thinking person knows it was obvious and why do you think this 'investigation' of the trumpchump-russian connection is taking so very long to even reveal. Comey is in this sordid political debacle up to his neck. He is a compromised republiKKKan.
Hekate
(90,784 posts)DK504
(3,847 posts)I am horrified that this hit piece is getting any traction. Hillary was up double digits before Comey TANKED the election.
If anything Hillary got stronger throughout the campaign, the gossip-y aspect to this book is another way to hurt and humiliate her.These so called writers want to talk about HRC losing her temper, 'cause NO politician has EVER lost their temper.
I give this big big FU of a review.
StevieM
(10,500 posts)JCanete
(5,272 posts)StevieM
(10,500 posts)than Putin and Wikileaks. They were more important than every other factor combined.
Comey started rigging this race back in 2015 and he never let up.
delisen
(6,044 posts)Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)But I believe the entire story about Trump's collusion with the Russians has yet to be told, and heretofore unknown (to us) information will somewhat explain away why Comey did what he did.
Mind you, Trump has been in the crosshairs of an international IC investigation since long before he announced his candidacy. There were moles in his organization, spies (Sater) who could not be compromised, and therefore, Trump's felonies could not yet be brought to light.
If the day comes that the hammer falls and Trump is perp-marched out of the White House, then and only then can we begin to judge the course of events that led us to this point.
I understand Comey is a Republican and apparently has had it out for the Clintons for a long time. But I also want to believe that he is spearheading a non-partisan investigation that may well clear the decks of Russian Congressmen and Trump cronies. Time will tell.
nikibatts
(2,198 posts)Anyone with any sense at all and just a modicum of fairness could see that the e-mail fake scandal was just that. HRC was not found guilty of any crime nor was her server hacked while servers all over the government were being hacked left and right and even in Congress. Benghazi itself was a fake scandal that could only be nourished and grow from the seeds of hate, envy, and misogyny of racist, sexist men and women of the clandestine alt-right. Their feelings and positions are hidden, denied, and even unrecognized by themselves and others.
Bill and Hillary Clinton are among the most hated by these people and if you want to know why just look at who surrounded them and with whom they surrounded themselves when Bill first came into office.