is because I remember the attitudes among so many New Left men in the 60s and 70s and I've seen a lot of those attitudes persist, softened only slightly if they had daughters.

A lot of attitudes have changed down the line including those toward women in the workforce, toward participation in housework and childcare, and toward what business needs to be forced to do, kicking and screaming, to make work a little friendlier to people who insist on having lives outside it.

I'm an Old Boomer, good to have around because I remember when the New Deal protections were in effect and that in some ways, it was a better country, especially for working people. However, my time is rapidly coming to a close and it's time for younger folks to take over and run things.

(I also remember when wages bought more, and 10% tip was fairly standard, 15% was for exemplary service, and 20% meant somebody was showing off. How things have changed!)

when the men were making the speeches and the women were supposed to make coffee and shut up. That was the awakening that led to the women's movement.

Having a theoretical belief in equality, that you've acquired in adulthood, isn't the same as feeling it in your bones.

certain issues that need to be paid more attention to. I don't dislike him because of one incident. However, I do think he is a bit of a dinosaur and we need fresh, new blood in the party. Someone who understands what life is like for ALL people today. I am afraid he is in a bit of a bubble.

...

I do remember feeling like they treated me as if I was invisible. I didn't like that at all. And before you say it had something to do with my looks, I was just out of college and was a very hot blonde with a lovely figure.

From: http://www.slate.com/articles/life/culturebox/2013/08/tipless_restaurants_the_linkery_s_owner_explains_why_abolishing_tipping.html

I just wondered if the original poster thought Sanders in particular would have tipped more had she been a man.

less than 10% so that meant he was paying less than $1.00 on a $10.00 dollar bill.

were giving. If he's that bad at math, then maybe he shouldn't be in a position of lecturing upon economics.

and beyond.

For example, in Dec. 2016:

Star Member smirkymonkey (21,740 posts)

35. Me too! I love Bernie!

He is truly for the people of America.


And in October, 2015:

Star Member smirkymonkey (21,740 posts)

Here is why I think that Bernie's time has come.

The following is an e-mail chain that was sent around by my parents and their group of very conservative friends and associates who are usually sending around anti-liberal, anti-Obama, anti-democratic political missives whenever they get the chance. I received this in my e-mail box a few day ago and was shocked. I was shocked because it wasn't partisan. They are finally getting it that it is the very privileged against the rest of us. This is why I think that Bernie has a great chance. If you only knew how unlikely it is for something like this to go viral amongst people like this you would be shocked too.

a candidate -- for more than a year -- bring up something she knew wouldn't reflect that well on him?

But now that the OP is having more doubts, she's sharing them.

You can go ahead and be skeptical. But you're not going to get the same reaction out of people who have been talking to smirkymonkey for years.

casting aspersions?

Smirkymonkey is NOT anti-Semitic and she was VERY enthusiastic about Bernie for a long time.

and I still like him as a senator, but lately he has been grating on me. I have been reluctant to share this story before because I was such a supporter and did not want it to be known. But now I am seeing another side to him that I don't like so much. I just thought it would give an angle to the type of person he is.

BTW, my republican brother used to live a few doors down from in Burlington and said he is a very nice guy. I am sure he is, but just not a very good tipper.

learn in your earliest years.

But in the case of tipping, it can show a blind spot about other people. At least he has a strong intellectual understanding of how much other people need money -- unlike most everyone in the GOP.

dependent upon tips, it should be him. I still like Bernie. I won't let that one moment make me dismiss him as an important leader in the progressive community. I just think we need to start putting our energy behind younger, more viable candidates.

Last edited Sun Apr 23, 2017, 08:52 PM - Edit history (1)

as an "equal" (for lack of a better word)

There is a saying to the effect that a person reveals his/her true character by the way s/he treats a waiter/waitress. The fact that he made you feel invisible bothers me more than the tip.

had some influence. Yes, I was very disappointed by the entire party's treatment of me. I was a staunch democrat back then and I just expected a little more from them.

Here is one story from TMZ:

http://m.tmz.com/#article/2015/10/16/bernie-sanders-tip-15-percent/

Now I know that some people deduct sales tax before calculating a tip, but c'mon. It's the 44 cents that gets me. On a tab that small, even two little old ladies would probably just round the tip up to 3 bucks. Piker.

but I had had enough when he started attacking smirky and Brock.

You know I mean well!

Glad MIRT cleaned up!

About how Dems don't care about the working class and true progressives, they serve corporate interests and are afraid to allow true progressives to wrestle power from their control, doing the bidding of corporate interests. Issues and policy should be more important than party.

blah.

that was directed towards you know who all. LOL, betsuni!

comments like "stop spamming the f-ing board" and "You always post the same stupid sh*t" directed at long-term members of DU should be hidden when alerted on.

Too bad they don't like seeing the same facts over and over again.. it's a big board lots of DIFFERENT people obviously need to see them.. I can tell by their posts.

Thank you!

I am always fair...agree with me or not...you call out a DU Poster and are ugly, I am going to vote against you but some don't obviously. It still is better than it used to be, and nothing is perfect.

I waited on Rod Serling and a group of his students from the University of Florida, in Gainesville, back in the day and he left me $50.00.. which was worth a lot more than it is today.

to Rod Serling!

Thank you for your anecdote

When I was in graduate school I worked at the Haight-Ashbury free clinic for women. One thing I noticed about some hardcore social justice types (and I said some, not all because I consider myself one) is that they love humanity but aren't quite so fond of individual people. They had grand dreams and plans but treated the actual clients like dirt. I could go on about my experiences there but I won't

Bernie seems to be one of those people that loves humanity, but doesn't quite walk his talk when it comes to individuals.

Humanity!

Think Obama vs Bernie and even think HRC vs Bernie.

Whoever gives me a warm feeling ... it's not Bernie. He reminds me too much of some people I worked with and some family members who just aren't the nice.

18-20%

I always give 20%

The "tipped wage" is something like 2.15/hr which is why a 20% tip is my standard.

A long time for an order to be taken or delivered to our table (without explanation or apology), forgetting to have someone cover you when you take a break, not being attentive to drink refills or to check on the customer after the food is delivered, the customer having to wait on the check a longer time than usual, especially if you mentioned you need to eat/run - like at lunch?

Those are all reasons my husband and I will lower a tip, and sometimes if meets multiple criteria, we'll give a less than 10% tip - even if the check gives tip "suggestions" at the bottom. The way I see it, if you don't leave a tip, people will think you forgot, but if you leave a lower than acceptable tip, they notice and may reevaluate their service. We've had a couple that have asked how they could improve their service.

If service is good, we do 20%, if better, we do 25-30%. So we're not "lousy tippers" as a rule. And it doesn't have a thing to do with perceived gender.

Last edited Sun Apr 23, 2017, 09:43 AM - Edit history (1)

I don't think there is anything the party could have complained about. To be honest, they just seemed to be in their own little world and barely acknowledged me as a human being.

If you leave a chintzy tip, they don't interpret that in any way other than you want to chintz on the tip.

If you have a problem with the service, be forthright with your server and tell them why, instead of trying to send coded messages with your tip.

... are closing my menus and putting them to the outside edge of the table/booth when I'm ready to order, and moving my drink to the same visible area when I need a refill.

It is theft, pure and simple. Most of the things you are punishing the servers for are the fault of the kitchen or the restaurant's management. And you are kidding yourself if you think that leaving a lower tip improves the service. Learn something about the service industry before you brag about how you like to punish servers for minor mistakes:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dare-you-to-read-this-and-still-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/?utm_term=.e695310d84bd

Especially if you're someone who supports Bernie's ideas, you should be sensitive to how difficult it is to make a living in the restaurant service industry.

Your post makes me angry. There is a kind of classism or entitlement or lack of humility in it that's really disturbing. And it's incredibly insensitive to punish people for minor imperfections. Try to have some empathy for your fellow human beings.

Is an example of why Democrats can't and won't unite, and why Trump will probably be an 8 year President.

That's not what I want, but this sort of endless petty attack on the most trusted and most liked politician in America won't end well.

It's also EXACTLY the sort of thing Democrats in the media decried a few months ago (remember Hillary didn't tip in Chipotle gate?)

But now I guess that's ok.

But only because it's aimed at Sanders, who is totally OK with Democrats...

All bad, and it will lead to disaster.

Some people are simply cheap tippers. Tiger Woods with a few thousand times more $$$ than Bernie, is a notoriously cheap tipper.

For Bernie supporters, this post triggers a natural response - defend Bernie against all criticism.

For Democrats who still resent his anti-Clinton moves during the 2016 campaign and impact on the election, it stirs up a lot of anger about Bernie. For me, it all comes down to one issue: Bernie refuses to join the party he wants to lead.

It's classic Bern. He's not a joiner, and makes moves like he truly isn't interested in the party's future. He's interested in his own platform and is not a compromiser. It's Bernie's way or the highway.

So any pro-Bernie or anti-Bernie post will continue to stir up bad feelings on both sides.

For me, I'll be looking for any sign from Bernie that he truly cares about the party. I've yet to see it, but who knows? Maybe a tiger can changes its stripes!

There are too many lousy tippers, as one can see by reading the replies in this thread. Look at all my posts on this thread; they're all about tipping. People need to learn exactly what they are doing to someone's livelihood when they undertip:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dare-you-to-read-this-and-still-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/?utm_term=.00d8a0b4c4f1

ETA: I agree with most of what you wrote, but in this thread, what makes me angry is seeing how so many people think it's OK to undertip. (I was never in the service industry myself, but I had a good friend who was, and it's absolutely maddening to see self-identified liberals brag about how they feel entitled to punish their servers for less-than-perfect service.)

Fair game here with the constant Bernie is the savior stuff.

If democrats are going to survive the one who is being the biggest fraud needs to be exposed.

First, we don't know the truth. So. Before you make wild judgements stop - all we have is a snippet of a part of a story.

Second, what if he's a great tipper and just thought one of the other people was doing it this time? What if they even told him they were?

Finally, Google tip and the name of any politician and you'll likely find numerous complaints. There's multiple stories about Hillary not tipping... Does that make her a hypocrite?

Or were those stories just random things taken out of context for political purposes....?

The OP is a garbage shit stirring post. It's divisive and could honestly be based on a misunderstanding or a lie.

hmmmmm

If you champion yourself as all things working class then this does seem a bit hypocritical.

Science does get discussed here often, so I can understand the confusion, but it doesn't apply here.

It alone proves nothing.

Most of the Bernie supporters fled long ago. It's mostly Hillary supporters who hate Bernie now. There are a few of us holdouts still here but we Bernie supporters are considered "trolls" by more than a few.

call them Bernie supporters. They're actually Bernie "detractors" as they detract from Bernie and his policy positions.

So of course they would not be comfortable here. DU is not big on right-wing sources to smear a Dems or on egregious sexist slurs. If someone needs to do that, then the bowels of Reddit is a better fit.

There are lots of true Bernie supporters here.

I just don't see him as the leader for the liberal/progressive movement as others do. We need to win. I just don't think Bernie will do it for us. We need new blood.

a thank you letter and always listed DU donations as DU donations. So please don't think you're not welcome at DU. We love YOU! and yeah Bernie got a lot of people interested in politics

back.

Keep it civil, okay?

We were having a discussion about poor tipping. They both said invariably it's the waitstaff with poor service that complain the most about bad tipping.

It's like that in any business. There's always going to be people complaining and blaming other people for their own shortcomings.

Back in the day, I remember countless times some of my fellow college students would go on and on ad nauseam about how unfair and hard the professor was . They were weak students who received poor grades because they just didn't do the work. Those professors were my favorites because they challenged me and really made my education something to be proud about.

Oh, absolutely! I'm convinced.

They were both big Hillary supporters.

The more conservative of the two is always flaunting his HRC fundraising pics and White House pics with Michele Obama.

But if it makes you feel better, go ahead and blame the server. Sounds pretty republican to me.

Or a tightwad or......

Nothing personal. Just using common sense.

and routinely received 15 to 20% tips or more from other patrons. I am willing to accept the blame when it is appropriate, but this was not the case here.

The tipped wage hasn't been increased since 1991. To put that in perspective, many working in restaurants were born after 1991.

Your percent may not have changed, but the dollar amount of the meals certainly seems to have increased and that has increased the amount of the tip.

And often they have to 'tip out' to the host/ess, busers, bubartenders, etc and it is based on sales. So if they tip 5% to the other staff, they're only making 5% on your meal. An asshole who stiffs a sever is actually costing him/her money (taxes and potential tipouts).

Percentages might vary regionally. But chain restaurants around her suggest tip amounts and they're 15, 18, and 20%. 4

It could also vary by age. I'm in my 30s. Never waited tables but most of my friends have. They have repeatedly said older people are the worst tippers. Maybe back in the day 10% was exceptional. But a server's wages haven't been increased in 26 years.

A server's hourly wage won't buy a gallon of milk (or gas).

I was making great money in my estimation for what I was doing and the hours I was putting into it. I will not pay anyone 15% unless the service is excellent, but they are not losing money if I only give them 10%. If they had to share the tip with others that helped them, that can be adjusted so that they are not paying tax on income they didn't get to keep.
I worked 5 to 7 hours 3 nights a week. It was mainly a bar so I was only needed on the weekend. I couldn't support myself with that few hours, so I found something else. That is the way it goes. If you're working less than half time, you won't make it, especially if your customer service sucks.. Blaming others for a lack of income isn't realistic to me. JMO

yes, Bernies a longtime Senator, he's a older man, set in his ways and never a quitter.

gotta love him at a distance for his tenacity and policies. Sometimes the most LOYAL of people aren't very huggie, kissie face nice because they aren't pretending to be who they are.

I do remember at the time being very disappointed because I expected a person like him to be a bit more aware of the fact that servers rely on their tips for income. I always received at least a 15 to 20% tip, so it stood out as unusual.

At least they remembered to leave a tip

And if it's a state that allows the less than minimum wage pay for that work, its not exactly the windfall you seem to think it is

I don't get that one bit.

It's not Democratic in my mind to view worker bees like that. My dad used to say he tipped well because he was a Democrat .

a family for 7 years.. so I know how much depends on tips.. and we always gave our best service!

They worked their butts off and most of the job was out of their control - slow cooks, managers that don't hire enough people etc.. I'm sure you know that. Unless a servers is downright rude they get the benefit of the doubt with me. Let me add if you don't treat them like crap it helps get that top notch service. Who wants to deal with obnoxious customers?? I would have been like Flo.. and never would have made it in that industry LOL

I'm sure the person standing over a hot stove all day in an unventilated kitchen appreciates getting blamed for poor service.

There are hedge-fund CEOs out there making over $400,000 an hour (yes, an hour), and you resent a server's tips? Do you realize that most servers barely earn the minimum wage, even with tips included?

If I go to a sandwich place for a BLT I tend to tip as much as 50%. If I go to a "real" sit down restaurant and pay two or three times as much for my BLT, I tend to tip closer to 30%.

The amount of work the wait staff has to do is the same in both places so I want to give the people doing the work pretty much the same amount.

10% is NOT enough tip these days - I don't care if the food is $15 a plate, $3 a plate or $50 a plate.

There's a place near my job we go to with killer tacos. The price is ridiculously low . We always leave a tip around half the total.

The cheaper the food, the larger the tip should be as a percentage. The amount of work involved doesn't depend on the price of the meal. And the more expensive restaurants tend to have male servers, while the cheaper places tend to have female servers, so if one undertips at the cheaper places, one is contributing to the gender wage inequality.

Most servers in the United States don't make minimum wage. When you undertip them, you are seriously hurting their ability to make a living. How would it hurt you to leave $3 for a $15 meal? Leaving anything less is incredibly cheap and selfish. If you can't afford to pay the tip, then don't eat out.

You should learn about the restaurant industry and why it's important to always leave at least 15%, regardless of the level of service:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/18/i-dare-you-to-read-this-and-still-feel-ok-about-tipping-in-the-united-states/?utm_term=.e695310d84bd

He tuned me into a newt.

After leaving a crappy tip.

That is not a good thing

The Waiter/Waitress Should NOT receive a 10%, 15% or 20%. In fact, if the service is awful, a penny left in a glass of water is appropriate.

Signed: A Former Waitress for 7 years.

When you tip less than 15%, the restaurant is supposed to make sure the server makes the minimum wage. But the reality is that the vast majority of restaurants ignore this law. When you leave a tip that is less than 15%, you are therefore stealing the waiter's or waitress's wages. You can feel free to leave nothing in countries that pay servers a fair wage, but if you do that in the U.S., you are a thief in my book.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2014/05/minimum-wage-tip-map-waiters-waitresses-servers

There is nothing more insulting to a server than to leave a penny in a glass of water. That is something I would only expect of a heartless, stingy republican.

By the way, I routinely got great tips, so I don't think it had anything to do with my service.

That's the only way anyone could leave a penny in a glass of water. Or several pennies on the table. The only way to look at it is that their actions reveal something about them -- something very ugly -- and that a person who is so hateful and mean cannot possibly be very happy on the inside.

You're right that such people are usually Republican.

with her OP.

And I've heard several people say that Sanders isn't "that nice." I know that's anecdotal, but it keeps popping up.

This too is anecdotal: I worked my way through college as a waitress and bartender and in general I found that the rich and/or famous tended to be poor to mediocre tippers. Of course there are exceptions.

too.

I waited on Rod Serling in an Italian Restaurant where I worked in Gainesville, Florida, back in the day. He was with a group of students from his workshop @ the UofF and he left me $50 bucks.. and I got his autograph!

I've always liked him. Great that you got his autograph, too (AND the $50 bucks!)

in Boston when I first moved there. Horrible tippers and horrible people! Almost forgot about that one.

When I asked them if they would like something to drink to start they got all outraged and said "We are not drinkers!" I had to clarify that I was simply asking for a beverage order.

It was a huge party - about 16 people and they left me about a 5% tip. It sucked. They took up most of my station for a long time and I made next to nothing that day.

I used to work the 11pm-7am shift so I could go to school during the day. EVERY Sunday there'd be a big group of them (10-12+) coming in at EXACTLY 7 and parking themselves at my big table; of course I had to serve them unless someone in the incoming shift was VERY kind. They were demanding, some of them nasty, treating me like a servant.

And, naturally, they didn't tip. What I got instead was one of their stupid pamphlets telling me to accept Jesus. Now I'm getting mad all over again just thinking about it, and that was a long time ago.

Rude, cheap and insensitive. Like my only mission in life was to cater to their stupid whims. No respect or kindness whatsoever. Fortunately, this was in Boston and we didn't get too many evangelicals at the restaurant. If we had I would have quit.

I had breakfast with him in New York City two years ago, and our waitress was a pleasant, chatty immigrant from Jamaica. She hadn't the slightest idea who Howard was, she was just a nice person by nature. She was a single mother who had worked her way through school (Howard asked). The bill came out to something like $47, and Howard counted it out, and then threw two $20 bills on top of it.

Now that I would have liked! It just shows that you have consideration for the person who is serving you. A 15% tip and a little kindness would have gone a long way. I was just surprised and disappointed.

I've known him for over 15 years. He was never anything but. He ALWAYS treats people who wait on him in restaurants with respect and deference, and never expects them to know who he is or treat him as if he were something special. Now, I have never met Bernie Sanders, so I have no opinion of the guy as a person one way or the other. But I have always respected Howard for his egalitarian attitude. One time--I can't believe it has been seven years now--I finally got to introduce Howard to another friend of mine, the late Helen Thomas. I had been trying to put this together for almost two years. This was my doing, so I expected to pick up the check. Howard said no way, he had a wonderful time, and grabbed it out of my hand. I didn't see that time what he left as a tip, but the waiter sure was smiling when we left. Helen, by the way paid Howard a high compliment, too: "He doesn't act like a politician." From Helen, that was about the highest praise she could heap on someone.

That good old day........
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I am impressed and maybe a little jealous. I have rubbed shoulders with some, but not on the level you have. Although I do have a good friend who is a promising up and coming MA Congresswoman.

Lots of "right place, right time," a few family connections, and a few of the right friends.

You'll like this one. I had always been on Howard's case to introduce me to Rachel Maddow (this was before I became friends with MSNBC's Krystal Ball). Then one time, I was bringing my elder daughter to the tiny airport in Provincetown, MA, at the tip of Cape Cod. I saw this tall slender woman with short hair walking toward the terminal, and she had big black glasses on. I said, "look, she must think she's Rachel Maddow or something." Well, it WAS Rachel Maddow. She held out her hand and said, "Hi, I'm Rachel," as if there was ANYBODY in Provincetown who DIDN'T know who Rachel was. I told her to please tell Howard, if he ever brought it up before I saw him next, that he was now officially off the hook to introduce us.