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babylonsister

(171,075 posts)
Thu Apr 27, 2017, 04:13 PM Apr 2017

Robert Reich: Trump's Latest Tweetstorm Is Grounds for Impeachment

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-politics/robert-reich-trumps-assault-judiciary-grounds-impeachment


Robert Reich: Trump's Latest Tweetstorm Is Grounds for Impeachment
An assault on the federal judiciary is an abuse of the president's constitutional authority.
By Robert Reich / RobertReich.org
April 27, 2017


One way dictators take over democracies is by threatening the independence of a nation’s courts. Donald Trump is doing just this.

Connect the following dots:

1. In January, Trump blasted a federal judge for staying his travel ban. “The opinion of this so-called judge, which essentially takes law-enforcement away from our country, is ridiculous and will be overturned!” he tweeted.

2. In February, after the judge made the stay permanent, Trump issued a veiled threat: “Just cannot believe a judge would put our country in such peril. If something happens blame him and court system. People pouring in. Bad!”

3. Last week, after another federal judge issued a nationwide injunction blocking Trump’s travel ban, Trump’s Attorney General, Jeff Sessions, said, “I really am amazed that a judge sitting on an island in the Pacific can issue an order that stops the president of the United States from what appears to be clearly his statutory and constitutional power.”

4. On Tuesday, after another federal judge blocked the Trump administration from enforcing a threat to take away funds from sanctuary cities, the White House issued a statement condemning the judge as “unelected.” The statement charged “this San Francisco judge’s erroneous ruling is a gift to the criminal gang and cartel element in our country, empowering the worst kind of human trafficking and sex trafficking, and putting thousands of innocent lives at risk. This case is yet one more example of egregious overreach by a single, unelected district judge.”

5. On Wednesday, Trump said he was considering breaking up the court of appeals for the 9th Circuit, in which these three federal judges hear and decide cases. "There are many people who want to break up the 9th Circuit,” he said. “It’s outrageous.” The 9th Circuit Court covers Arizona, California, Alaska, Nevada, Idaho, Oregon, Montana, Washington and Hawaii, as well as Guam and the Northern Mariana Islands. Eighteen of the court’s 25 judges were appointed by Democratic presidents.


It is the job of the Justice Department to provide a reasoned case for overruling a federal judge’s decision. In condemning individual judges and threatening to break up the court of appeals instead, Trump is attacking the foundations of the separation of powers in the Constitution.

This assault on the federal judiciary is an abuse of Trump’s constitutional authority – yet another ground for impeachment.
39 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Robert Reich: Trump's Latest Tweetstorm Is Grounds for Impeachment (Original Post) babylonsister Apr 2017 OP
He's utterly dangerous. He's normalizing Sculpin Beauregard Apr 2017 #1
This is Trump being Trump FakeNoose Apr 2017 #30
Reich is wrong on this mythology Apr 2017 #2
I don't think it's impeachable, either gratuitous Apr 2017 #4
it's much worse than that cynical_idealist Apr 2017 #5
Welcome to DU! Delphinus Apr 2017 #29
Huge difference between tRump and Obama. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2017 #10
Umm trump threatened retaliatory action because of rulings. Obama never did that!!! boston bean Apr 2017 #14
Meh jberryhill Apr 2017 #3
Not all speech is free, and all speech carries consequences. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2017 #11
What speech isn't free? NobodyHere Apr 2017 #12
Incitement to riot, calls for violence like tRump at his rallies, speech that exploits minors, trea Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2017 #13
Can you please apply this to the "impeachable" statements in the OP? jberryhill Apr 2017 #20
Sure. Read post #11 previously written as a reply to you in this subthread. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2017 #23
Post #11 makes no sense jberryhill Apr 2017 #24
It is not incitement to riot. Duh. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2017 #25
Then would you care to explain what makes it criminal, or an abuse of power jberryhill Apr 2017 #26
If you read my post Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2017 #27
I did read your post jberryhill Apr 2017 #28
You are right exboyfil Apr 2017 #31
Here Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2017 #32
No right, not even a Constitutional one, is absolute. VOX Apr 2017 #16
Please explain the unlawfulness of the statements in the OP jberryhill Apr 2017 #21
It doesn't rise to an impeachable offense of any sort jberryhill Apr 2017 #19
So much is wasted on concern over Trump... defacto7 Apr 2017 #34
Noted; and added to the list. Now everybody move along, nothing doing. UTUSN Apr 2017 #6
And yet... ailsagirl Apr 2017 #7
I agree with the others, this is not impeachable. I'm afraid Reich is jumping the shark. thesquanderer Apr 2017 #8
Precisely jberryhill Apr 2017 #22
I have this inkling that the process for creating a new Circuit treestar Apr 2017 #9
May not be impeachable in and if it's own, yet trump is stirring the pot on this issue Lyricalinklines Apr 2017 #15
No Republican is going to move for impeachment. VOX Apr 2017 #17
I have accepted that, but things do keep slowly Alice11111 Apr 2017 #18
I'm heartened by the number of posts recognizing that Reich's hyperbole is silly. onenote Apr 2017 #33
All that was true back when we were a Constitutional Democracy world wide wally Apr 2017 #35
So, half of 9th circuit judges were appointed by Republicans... MrPurple Apr 2017 #36
18/25 appointed by Democrats means 7/25 appointed by not-Democrats ... just sayin' mr_lebowski Apr 2017 #37
There are already grounds, but the media tries to normalize, and.. mvd Apr 2017 #38
Gorsuch is an unelected judge, too. Beartracks Apr 2017 #39

Sculpin Beauregard

(1,046 posts)
1. He's utterly dangerous. He's normalizing
Thu Apr 27, 2017, 04:21 PM
Apr 2017

attacking the fundamentals of US constitution, and trying to dismantle the very apparatus that would hold him accountable. He's gunning for a dictatorship over a fake democracy.

Do not stop the pressure on Washington to hold him accountable, and don't let this become 'normal'.

FakeNoose

(32,655 posts)
30. This is Trump being Trump
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 08:51 AM
Apr 2017

Before he was elected POTUS he used to tweet shit like this all the time. That's what he does.

But he's not a private citizen anymore and he should not be allowed to tweet stuff like this. They should have taken that man's phone away when he became POTUS because he's being totally irresponsible with it.

What we need to do is ignore his tweets and tell Trump that if he wants our attention he has to hold press conferences, like every other President and world leader.

Ignore the tweets, stop reacting to them, and it will finally happen.


 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
2. Reich is wrong on this
Thu Apr 27, 2017, 04:25 PM
Apr 2017

Trump is being stupid and childish, but it's not an impeachable offense. It wasn't impeachable when Obama told the Supreme Court they were wrong on Citizens United.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
4. I don't think it's impeachable, either
Thu Apr 27, 2017, 04:44 PM
Apr 2017

But that's due to Republican control of Congress. There are multitudes of difference between President Trump's temper tantrums and anything President Obama said about Citizens United.

cynical_idealist

(360 posts)
5. it's much worse than that
Thu Apr 27, 2017, 05:57 PM
Apr 2017

It's part of an orchestrated campaign to hack the reality of the USA.
psyops all the way.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,013 posts)
10. Huge difference between tRump and Obama.
Thu Apr 27, 2017, 07:12 PM
Apr 2017

President Obama, the Constitutional Law Professor, respected the Judiciary despite having disagreements.

President tRump-Bannon wants to destroy the independence of the Judiciary, smash it into pieces, and populate it with radical uneducated nitwits like himself. That sentiment is not in-and-of-itself impeachable, but attempting to intimidate judges and actively riling up his base into doing the same (sometimes with arms) is an abuse of his position.

Was that case solved and prosecuted to a conviction with jail time in the murder of the judge on his doorstep in Texas?
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
3. Meh
Thu Apr 27, 2017, 04:41 PM
Apr 2017

Stating one's opinion - however stupid - is not an impeachable offense.

The Constitution doesn't require any of the branches of government to agree with the others.

The president can certainly propose restructuring the court system to Congress, which has the power under Article III to define the jurisdiction of courts subordinate to the Supreme Court.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,013 posts)
11. Not all speech is free, and all speech carries consequences.
Thu Apr 27, 2017, 07:16 PM
Apr 2017

tRump calling for the destruction of the Judiciary or its independence is destructive to the institutions and the fabric of American society.

He is in a responsible position and must accept the blame and consequences of his abusive behavior and utterances.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,013 posts)
13. Incitement to riot, calls for violence like tRump at his rallies, speech that exploits minors, trea
Thu Apr 27, 2017, 07:30 PM
Apr 2017

... treasonous speech (treasonous agreements and incitements), malicious mischief (yelling "fire" in a crowded theater), revealing top secrets that have not been properly declassified, slander, libel, stock manipulation, incitement to genocide as in the war crime convictions being obtained against broadcasters in Rwanda .... Many varieties and examples.


Also, there is the other meaning of free, as in cost. People are responsible for what they say and liable for the consequences. For example, if a person says to an angry crowd "Let's get that bitch and string her up and make her pay for her crimes" that causes the crowd to lynch somebody, then the family can sue for damages even if the woman was a criminal; further, the legal system can prosecute for incitement.


United States

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution guarantees free speech, and the degree to which incitement is protected speech is determined by the imminent lawless action test introduced by the 1969 Supreme Court decision in the case Brandenburg v. Ohio. The court ruled that incitement of events in the indefinite future was protected, but encouragement of "imminent" illegal acts was not protected.

Incitement to riot is illegal under U.S. federal law.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
24. Post #11 makes no sense
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 08:12 AM
Apr 2017

It is within the power of the president to advocate for "breaking up the ninth circuit".

Should Congress pass such legislation, and he signs it, then are you suggesting that too would be "impeachable".

Do you understand that the structure of the court system is not independent of the other two branches?

Granted, his statements are crude and uninformed, but he is certainly able to criticize Congress, the courts, or anything else. That's actually inherent in the separation of powers that the various branches of the government do not have to like one another one bit.

Can you explain how his displeasure with the court system is "incitement to riot"?

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
26. Then would you care to explain what makes it criminal, or an abuse of power
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 08:17 AM
Apr 2017

FDR wanted to re-structure the Supreme Court. Was that impeachable?

-----
The judicial power of the United States, shall be vested in one Supreme Court, and in such inferior courts as the Congress may from time to time ordain and establish. The judges, both of the supreme and inferior courts, shall hold their offices during good behaviour, and shall, at stated times, receive for their services, a compensation, which shall not be diminished during their continuance in office.
Section 2.

The judicial power shall extend to all cases, in law and equity, arising under this Constitution, the laws of the United States, and treaties made, or which shall be made, under their authority;--to all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls;--to all cases of admiralty and maritime jurisdiction;--to controversies to which the United States shall be a party;--to controversies between two or more states;--between a state and citizens of another state;--between citizens of different states;--between citizens of the same state claiming lands under grants of different states, and between a state, or the citizens thereof, and foreign states, citizens or subjects.

In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.
-------

The structure and function of all courts inferior to the Supreme Court is entirely a product of the political process.

If some Congresscritter introduces a bill abolishing the Ninth Circuit at Trump's urging, then can you explain to me what is illegal about that?

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,013 posts)
27. If you read my post
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 08:19 AM
Apr 2017

You'd see that there is a difference between the destruction I referred to and the restructuring you insist on talking about.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
28. I did read your post
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 08:25 AM
Apr 2017

Please point me to Trump's advocacy of "destruction":

"There are many people who want to break up the 9th Circuit,”

Now, discounting his ordinary bullshit "many people", it is perfectly within the power of Trump, or anyone else, to say that the 9th Circuit should be broken up.

When Congress took away appellate jurisdiction over patent cases from the Circuit courts and assigned them to the single Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit in 1982, then should Reagan have been impeached for that?

Do you think the Constitution requires the circuit courts of appeal at all? It doesn't. Anyone can say, "I think all the Circuit courts should be abolished and the Supreme Court expanded to hear appeals directly" and they are not advocating the "destruction" of anything.

Do you think the president is required to agree with the decisions of all district courts or circuit courts? If so, then should EVERY president whose administration ever appealed a case have been impeached?

These are mere words stating his idiotic opinions. Idiocy, as we have seen several times before, is not an impeachable offense.

exboyfil

(17,863 posts)
31. You are right
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 08:58 AM
Apr 2017

FDR wanted to add justices that would vote for his New Deal programs. He proposed adding six additional Justices. These situations are the same except FDR was smart enough to not state his political reasons in an open forum.

Here is a good write up of FDR's attempt. The key lines (and something a student of history like Donald Trump should pick up /s):


But Roosevelt kept Congressional leaders, his cabinet (save for Cummings) and the American people in the dark, deceiving even the shrewdest experts.


He justified his request not by contending that the court’s majority was reactionary, but by maintaining that a shortage of judges had resulted in delays to litigants because federal court dockets had become overburdened.


Read more: http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/when-franklin-roosevelt-clashed-with-the-supreme-court-and-lost-78497994/#jYcVKacVe8Ip0pi7.99
Give the gift of Smithsonian magazine for only $12! http://bit.ly/1cGUiGv
Follow us: @SmithsonianMag on Twitter

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,013 posts)
32. Here
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 10:05 AM
Apr 2017

I will concede that Reich overstates the case for impeachment with regard to this specific issue, but he does state the basic issue well in the OP:

It is the job of the Justice Department to provide a reasoned case for overruling a federal judge’s decision. In condemning individual judges and threatening to break up the court of appeals instead, Trump is attacking the foundations of the separation of powers in the Constitution.

This assault on the federal judiciary is an abuse of Trump’s constitutional authority


Any one of his statements can be rationalized away individually in isolation as not too bad, but when you look at the sum total of what he says and how he says it and when he says it, the net effect is destructive and abusive. The statements against the American born judge (of Mexican heritage) are very abusive but were made before he was elected.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
16. No right, not even a Constitutional one, is absolute.
Thu Apr 27, 2017, 08:14 PM
Apr 2017

Example: Felons can't (aren't legally supposed to, anyway) possess firearms. Or, you cannot assemble to discuss the overthrow of the U.S. government.

As to free speech, you got an excellent response.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
21. Please explain the unlawfulness of the statements in the OP
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 12:24 AM
Apr 2017

They are dimwitted and crude, but it is legal to say stupid shit.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
19. It doesn't rise to an impeachable offense of any sort
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 12:16 AM
Apr 2017

He can say he's going to use magic Pokémon powers to make the court rule his way if he wants. However, he does not have magic Pokémon powers. He also does not have the power to restructure the courts.

Does Congress have that power to pass legislation restructuring the courts, yes. Can he propose that Congress do so? Yes. It has to pass Congress to get to him, but it is within the legitimate exercise of constitutional authority for that to happen.

FDR wanted to secure a majority on the Supreme Court by having its size enlarged. Was his expressed desire to do that some kind of impeachable offense?

What was Andrew Jackson's response to Worcester v Virginia?

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
34. So much is wasted on concern over Trump...
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 11:16 AM
Apr 2017

It's congress we have to worry about. Trump is a tool, congress is the enabler. Trump us merely a distraction. To me impeachment is a secondary issue to the real threat.

thesquanderer

(11,990 posts)
8. I agree with the others, this is not impeachable. I'm afraid Reich is jumping the shark.
Thu Apr 27, 2017, 06:43 PM
Apr 2017

This is not the first time I've seen something from him that I felt went too far. This kind of thing is counterproductive, as the right uses it to convince the moderates that the left is kooky. There is too much legitimate stuff to talk about, we should not be diluting that with specious or overstated points.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
9. I have this inkling that the process for creating a new Circuit
Thu Apr 27, 2017, 06:46 PM
Apr 2017

is more complicated that a mere Presidential decoration. "I" am going to break it up is a ridiculous statement.

Lyricalinklines

(367 posts)
15. May not be impeachable in and if it's own, yet trump is stirring the pot on this issue
Thu Apr 27, 2017, 07:54 PM
Apr 2017

Which also directs his followers (voters) to spread more false information. THAT is what he uses twitter for, IMHO. His tirade against Democrats today is his way of creating chaos with a certain demographic.

VOX

(22,976 posts)
17. No Republican is going to move for impeachment.
Thu Apr 27, 2017, 08:19 PM
Apr 2017

Not one. Their souls are long sold out. They're going to ride this crazed tiger as long as they can. Laws mean nothing to them.

Another "Germany, c. 1933" warning sign.

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
18. I have accepted that, but things do keep slowly
Thu Apr 27, 2017, 11:33 PM
Apr 2017

Leaking through. Imagine how much they have stopped or destroyed.

The problem is that they are investigating themselves and thete is too much arse to cover. We have to get an independent prosecutor. Maybe, the new Dep AG, but I'm sure Sessions carefully selected her.

Chaffetz leaving feels like a dream...hope he stays gone. He was obviously hiding something all along.

onenote

(42,715 posts)
33. I'm heartened by the number of posts recognizing that Reich's hyperbole is silly.
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 11:01 AM
Apr 2017

Yes, Trump's comments are crude, stupid, childish, disrespectful, etc.

And yes, anything and everything can be, in theory, grounds for impeachment, up to and including wearing black socks with brown shoes.

But in the real world, if articles of impeachment against Trump are ever considered by Congress, they will not include an article based on his criticisms of the Judiciary and/or proposals to restructure the Judiciary.

One has to wonder whether Reich is familiar with FDR's criticism of the Supreme Court and his court packing plan and, if so, whether he thinks FDR committed an impeachable offense?

While FDR obviously was more articulate than Trump and not childish or overtly disrespectful, the substance of his message was actually pretty close to the substance of Trump's tweets.

"In the last four years the sound rule of giving statutes the benefit of all reasonable doubt has been cast aside. The Court has been acting not as a judicial body, but as a policy-making body.....The Court in addition to the proper use of its judicial functions has improperly set itself up as a third House of the Congress—a super-legislature, as one of the justices has called it-reading into the Constitution words and implications which are not there, and which were never intended to be there.

We have, therefore, reached the point as a Nation where we must take action to save the Constitution from the Court and the Court from itself. We must find a way to take an appeal from the Supreme Court to the Constitution itself. We want a Supreme Court which will do justice under the Constitution—not over it. In our Courts we want a government of laws and not of men.

I want—as all Americans want—an independent judiciary as proposed by the framers of the Constitution. That means a Supreme Court that will enforce the Constitution as written—that will refuse to amend the Constitution by the arbitrary exercise of judicial power—amendment by judicial say-so. It does not mean a judiciary so independent that it can deny the existence of facts universally recognized.

Our difficulty with the Court today rises not from the Court as an institution but from human beings within it. But we cannot yield our constitutional destiny to the personal judgment of a few men who, being fearful of the future, would deny us the necessary means of dealing with the present."






MrPurple

(985 posts)
36. So, half of 9th circuit judges were appointed by Republicans...
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 01:28 PM
Apr 2017

Very nearly half, 17/25. What percentage of Trump followers would even believe that?

mvd

(65,175 posts)
38. There are already grounds, but the media tries to normalize, and..
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 01:59 PM
Apr 2017

we need to get the House for impeachment and Senate to have a chance to remove. If this was a Democrat (and it would never be), the media would be all over things.

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