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bigtree

(86,008 posts)
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 11:42 AM Apr 2017

Ron Perlman: 'We must suspend this regime's power to legislate until allegations fully resolved'

Ron Perlman? @perlmutations 36m36 minutes ago
1/ With an FBI Investigation already underway, there is an abundance of evidence pointing to the fact that our current administration

Ron Perlman? @perlmutations 36m36 minutes ago
2/ assumed power by illegally colluding with a foreign enemy. The congressional investigations in both the House and the Senate were chaired

Ron Perlman? @perlmutations 36m36 minutes ago
3/ by two men, Nunes and Burr, installed by the GOP to make sure these investigations never gained traction, thus taking an act of treason

Ron Perlman? @perlmutations 36m36 minutes ago
4/ and colluding further to make sure the original sin would never see the light of day. These are the people we depend upon to keep our

Ron Perlman? @perlmutations 36m36 minutes ago
5/ democracy operating as it was intended, with the rule of law being immutable and not to be tampered with, regardless of station.

Ron Perlman? @perlmutations 36m36 minutes ago
6/ there is no greater urgency before us than lifting the cloud that hangs, and is deliberately allowed to hang over this administration.

Ron Perlman? @perlmutations 36m36 minutes ago
7/ if, in fact, any of the burgeoning evidence proves true, then we are looking at an ascent to power that is the result of an illegality.

Ron Perlman? @perlmutations 36m36 minutes ago
8/ We must suspend this regime's power to legislate until these allegations have been fully resolved. And if, God forbid,this leads us to

Ron Perlman? @perlmutations 36m36 minutes ago
9/ heretofore conclusions never before seen in the history of this great country, then the entire regime must be removed and replaced.
59 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Ron Perlman: 'We must suspend this regime's power to legislate until allegations fully resolved' (Original Post) bigtree Apr 2017 OP
Who is Ron Perlman? The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2017 #1
An astonishingly gifted character actor. Aristus Apr 2017 #2
OK, now I remember who he is. The Velveteen Ocelot Apr 2017 #5
Why is it... cannabis_flower Apr 2017 #38
Not your fault. 2016 was brutal all around. Aristus Apr 2017 #39
An actor who is spot on. usedtobedemgurl Apr 2017 #3
This message was self-deleted by its author bigtree Apr 2017 #4
A very good and successful charactor actor. haele Apr 2017 #6
Thank you for this info! eom BlueCaliDem Apr 2017 #9
And a true rarity in Hollywood... jmowreader Apr 2017 #25
HB3 has been shelved, probably permanently. Sigh. nt tblue37 Apr 2017 #56
Hellboy! n/t FSogol Apr 2017 #10
May the Sons of Anarchy rise up and lead the way out of this mess - eom asiliveandbreathe Apr 2017 #7
Where's Jax when you need him? Initech Apr 2017 #33
He's killing people, selling guns and always talking about "family" JDC Apr 2017 #59
I'm with Ron MagickMuffin Apr 2017 #8
Exactly who is supposed to "suspend this regime's power to legislate"? onenote Apr 2017 #11
Harry Reid's Deputy Chief of Staff bigtree Apr 2017 #13
Of course we should resist legislation and nominees we substantively oppose onenote Apr 2017 #14
you took it to the extreme bigtree Apr 2017 #21
All of his cabinet positions are filled onenote Apr 2017 #28
"Senate Republicans can end each filibuster of Presidential nominees red dog 1 Apr 2017 #47
Bigtree, you're Awesome. Thanks for your considered and informative response. byronius Apr 2017 #48
It's great stuff. Eyeball_Kid Apr 2017 #52
When constitutional means to effect change have all been dismantled/subverted... Orsino Apr 2017 #12
Treason is the GOP modus operandi in presidential elections: Blue Meany Apr 2017 #15
Majority winner Hillary should get it. The stolen election was by Republican TICKET. No Pres. Pence. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2017 #16
There already is, they can impeach Trump and Pence. hughee99 Apr 2017 #23
You miss the point. Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2017 #35
If they were to impeach and convict Trump (and start impeachment on Pence on the same grounds) hughee99 Apr 2017 #40
Spot on! triron Apr 2017 #17
Go Ron Go! SonofDonald Apr 2017 #18
They stole an election by participating in a Russian coup of the White House. L. Coyote Apr 2017 #19
+1000. byronius Apr 2017 #50
The worst part about it, the Russian government is mobsters. We've been overthrown by mobsters. L. Coyote Apr 2017 #55
Agree 100%! K&R PunkinPi Apr 2017 #20
"suspend this regime's power to legislate"? How does that happen? hughee99 Apr 2017 #22
Congress is the key bigtree Apr 2017 #24
Intersting ideas, but I'm not sure how workable they are in the current environment. hughee99 Apr 2017 #41
He's right in theory malaise Apr 2017 #26
it's all about the legislator's will, Malaise bigtree Apr 2017 #27
amen! nt LaydeeBug Apr 2017 #29
HELLBOY Speaks!! yuiyoshida Apr 2017 #30
I'm sorry, but this is silly rhetoric. Oneironaut Apr 2017 #31
I couldn't disagree with you more. byronius Apr 2017 #46
Trump being in office insults the office ck4829 Apr 2017 #51
Thank you bigtree saidsimplesimon Apr 2017 #32
All correct, well thought out, succinct and INTELLIGENT! (unlike Admin spokespeeps) joanbarnes Apr 2017 #34
We (the people) need to flood Town halls and phonecalls BigmanPigman Apr 2017 #36
go ron! certainot Apr 2017 #37
There has been a coup. zentrum Apr 2017 #42
Exactly! llmart Apr 2017 #44
And no new legislation in the meantime! zentrum Apr 2017 #57
Well spoken, Hellboy! byronius Apr 2017 #43
these treasonous bastards should never have had their SC pic seated Skittles Apr 2017 #45
suspend the illegitimate KGOP cabal Achilleaze Apr 2017 #49
I agree with Ron Perlman 100 percent! red dog 1 Apr 2017 #53
When do we break out the guillotines? SledDriver Apr 2017 #54
I agree blueinredohio Apr 2017 #58

Aristus

(66,481 posts)
2. An astonishingly gifted character actor.
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 11:45 AM
Apr 2017

He played The Beast in the 1980's TV show Beauty And the Beast. He played Hellboy, he was in Sons Of Anarchy, and played supporting roles in about 10,000,000 films.

Response to The Velveteen Ocelot (Reply #1)

haele

(12,685 posts)
6. A very good and successful charactor actor.
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 11:49 AM
Apr 2017

Masters Degree in Theater arts from University of Minnesota. Married to the same woman since 1981. Secular Humanist, pro choice. Planning to run for President in 2020 - as a Democrat.
Can't be any worse than a constantly bankrupt hotel developer/game show host.



Haele

jmowreader

(50,567 posts)
25. And a true rarity in Hollywood...
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 01:26 PM
Apr 2017

Hellboy 2 was better than Hellboy 1 and 1 was damn good.

But do us a favor, Ron...could you make Hellboy 3 before you run for president?

MagickMuffin

(15,963 posts)
8. I'm with Ron
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 11:54 AM
Apr 2017

Why doesn't the corporate media do its job???

Oh yeah, they don't want to because they are also a yuge part of the problem, bigly! SAD!!!



onenote

(42,791 posts)
11. Exactly who is supposed to "suspend this regime's power to legislate"?
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 11:59 AM
Apr 2017

What, exactly, does that mean? And how would it be done? Does he think that Congress should be blocked from voting on anything until the Russian collusion allegations "have been fully resolved"? For example, does he think that Congress should be blocked from voting on the continuing resolution to keep the government opened?

I was speaking to someone from Senator Warner's staff the other day and he indicated that there is more going on in the Senate Intelligence Committee than is generally known but that Sen. Warner is committed to doing a painstaking, non public investigation rather than shoot for headlines. To the extent Perlman thinks that the allegations can be "fully resolved" in some short time frame, he's dreaming.

bigtree

(86,008 posts)
13. Harry Reid's Deputy Chief of Staff
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 12:13 PM
Apr 2017

As a Democratic Senate aide for the past seven years, I had a front-row seat to an impressive show of obstruction. Republicans, under then-Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, decided they would oppose President Barack Obama and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid at every turn to limit their power. And it worked: They extorted concessions from Democrats with threats of shutdowns, fiscal cliffs and financial chaos. I know firsthand that Democrats’ passion for responsible governance can be exploited by Republicans who are willing to blow past all norms and standards.

Now we have a president who exemplifies that willingness in the extreme. Partly, this explains why he faces more questions about his legitimacy than any president in recent history and why he drew three times as many protesters as inauguration attendees last weekend. But in something of a mismatch, Republicans’ unified control of government means that the most effective tool for popular resistance lies in the Senate — the elite, byzantine institution envisioned by the founders as the saucer that cools the teacup of popular opinion.

Senate Democrats have a powerful tool at their disposal, if they choose to use it, for resisting a president who has no mandate and cannot claim to embody the popular will. That tool lies in the simple but fitting act of withholding consent. An organized effort to do so on the Senate floor can bring the body to its knees and block or severely slow down the agenda of a president who does not represent the majority of Americans.

The procedure for withholding consent is straightforward, but deploying it is tricky. For the Senate to move in a timely fashion on any order of business, it must obtain unanimous support from its members. But if a single senator objects to a consent agreement, McConnell, now majority leader, will be forced to resort to time-consuming procedural steps through the cloture process, which takes four days to confirm nominees and seven days to advance any piece of legislation — and that’s without amendment votes, each of which can be subjected to a several-day cloture process as well...


read more: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2017/01/27/democrats-in-congress-can-block-trumps-agenda-if-they-want-to-heres-how/?utm_term=.2c6370759809

onenote

(42,791 posts)
14. Of course we should resist legislation and nominees we substantively oppose
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 12:34 PM
Apr 2017

But even the author of the article you cite acknowledges that it would be "unwise" to "blindly" deploy the strategy of "withholding consent" to freeze all legislation and nominations. And that's what Perlman is suggesting -- to "suspend" legislative activities until some unknown point in time when the allegations of Russian meddling are "finally resolved."

Not all legislation is substantively controversial. Bills are introduced, passed, and signed into law where all or most Democrats support the measure. In just the past couple of days, the House passed the Freddie and Fannie Open Records Act with unanimous support from Democratic members. And a Copyright Act related bill (changing the process for naming the Register of Copyrights) passed with 145 out of 191 Democrats in support. Should the Senate prevent these bills from becoming law? The Trump administration has been dragging its feet on filling positions requiring Senate confirmation and has been criticized for it. Do we want to shift the blame away from TRump and onto our party by having Democratic Senators blindly oppose/block (to the extent they're able to do so, which is questionable since there is no filibuster allowed for nominations) all such nominations when they finally get made, whether or not there is a substantive basis for opposing the nominee?

And one more question: Perlman appears to concede the possibility that at the end of an investigation, the allegations of high level collusion between the Russians and Trump campaign might not be proven out. Then what? Just write off a year or more and say, oops we're sorry we stalled all legislation, even legislation that has broad bipartisan support on the substance?

Suggestions like Perlman's are just hyperbolic nonsense. Of course we should resist. But not by demanding that all legislative activities be "suspended."

bigtree

(86,008 posts)
21. you took it to the extreme
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 01:12 PM
Apr 2017

...it's not clear from his statements that he's advocating anything irresponsible.

I think the article provides an excellent guideline for effectively 'suspending' their power to legislate.

This one as well:

Here’s how Senate Democrats can delay the Trumpublican agenda into oblivion:

They can filibuster every remaining Trump Cabinet nominee, as well as most of the other 1200-1400 Presidential appointments requiring Senate confirmation.

Although Senate Republicans can end each filibuster of Presidential nominees (other than Supreme Court Justices) with 51 votes, it’s complicated and time consuming.

Multiple filibusters of multiple nominees, and other measures, can stymie the work of the Republican-controlled Senate for months, and eventually thwart it. To end a filibuster:

*At least 16 Senators must sign a “cloture” petition.

*The cloture petition remains open for 2 business days.

*If then passed by 51 Senators (60 Senators for Supreme Court nominees and most other legislative matters) debate on the applicable matter is limited to 30 hours when the Senate is in session. (Since the Senate generally is only in session for a few hours a day and a few days a week, 30 hours can stretch into days or weeks.)

*After cloture, each Senator is entitled to an hour of debate on a first-come, first-served basis and may yield all or part of the hour to a floor manager or party leader.

*Most importantly, the adoption of a cloture motion prohibits the consideration of any other Senate business except by unanimous consent (which any one Senator may refuse to grant.)

So here’s how it adds up: If Senate Democrats filibuster all of Trump’s remaining Cabinet picks and most of his other appointments, they can block the Republican-controlled Senate from passing much other legislation for many months...


read more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/miles-mogulescu/the-trumprepublican-agend_b_14505600.html

onenote

(42,791 posts)
28. All of his cabinet positions are filled
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 01:31 PM
Apr 2017

And as Reid's former chief of staff noted, blindly blocking everyone and everything is a bad idea.

Trump's getting heat and looking inept for failing to put forward nominees for the hundreds of non-cabinet level positions that require confirmation. We'd be letting him off the hook if we blindly slow rolled them all, not based on any objection to them on the merits, but because we think its a good idea to bollox up everything the Senate does while waiting for the "final resolution" of the collusion allegations.

That would be a great way to energize the Trumpians.

Finally, I don't think I exaggerated Perlman's proposal. Unlike Reid's chief of staff, who tied the objection strategy (not used blindly) to getting a serious investigation going, Perlman's proposal is to stop legislation in its tracks until the investigation is "finally resolved."

red dog 1

(27,875 posts)
47. "Senate Republicans can end each filibuster of Presidential nominees
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 04:55 PM
Apr 2017

(other than Supreme Court Justices)"?
That used to be the case, but not anymore.
Now, Democrats can't even use the filibuster for SCOTUS nominees.

"Senate Invokes 'Nuclear Option' to Overcome Democrats Filibuster of Supreme Court Nominee Gorsuch"
http://ktla.com/2017/04/06/senate-set-for-nuclear-showdown-over-supreme-court-seat/

Gorsuch was confirmed as a Supreme Court justice by a vote of 54 to 45.....(No filibuster allowed)

Except for that, your reply was excellent!..(thanks)

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
12. When constitutional means to effect change have all been dismantled/subverted...
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 12:05 PM
Apr 2017

...we are left with largely impotent rants like this one. No matter how cogent this tweetstorm is, it offers no solutions.

 

Blue Meany

(1,947 posts)
15. Treason is the GOP modus operandi in presidential elections:
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 12:40 PM
Apr 2017

Nixon used back channels to convince the Vietnamese that they would get a better deal from him, so they should stall negotiations; Reagan's team persuaded the Iranians to keep American hostages until after the election, and then rewarded them with spare parts for their American weapons systems.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,052 posts)
16. Majority winner Hillary should get it. The stolen election was by Republican TICKET. No Pres. Pence.
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 12:43 PM
Apr 2017

There needs to be a way to Constitutionally accomplish this, when the case is proven and the time comes. Constitutional scholars need to work this out now.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
23. There already is, they can impeach Trump and Pence.
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 01:22 PM
Apr 2017

There is no constitutional way I can see for Clinton to become president, though.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,052 posts)
35. You miss the point.
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 02:02 PM
Apr 2017

If they impeach (and by implication convict) a Republicon President, then a Republicon ascends.

It's the Republicon TICKET that stole the election. They do not have a right to chose their successor, if there is any justice.

If tRump is impeached, Pence (a Republicon) ascends.

If Pence is impeached first, tRump appoints a Republicon VP and then if he is impeached, that appointee ascends.

If tRump and Pence are impeached simultaneously at the same instant (very hard to arrange technically), then Ryan ascends, which would be great because he would refuse appointment to VP. It would be the only way to get him out of the running for 2020 or 2024. Ryan hopes tRump is impeached, or more probably forced to resign like Nixon, and Pence becomes like Ford, and then Ryan hopes to defeat a Carter-like President in 2024.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
40. If they were to impeach and convict Trump (and start impeachment on Pence on the same grounds)
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 02:33 PM
Apr 2017

Pence would get to name a replacement, but that replacement would still need senate confirmation. If they have the juice to impeach Trump and possibly Pence as well, they should be able to wait on the results of Pence's impeachment before approving any approval of a successor he might name.

Unfortunately, then Ryan becomes president and gets to name his VP. They only way I can see that they get a Dem into the white house is if they wait until after the midterms to do all of this, the dems take the house, and a Dem is speaker, who takes Ryan's spot and moves up to president.

Having said all of that, I think the chances of impeaching and convicting both Trump and Pence with a republican congress are basically zero.

SonofDonald

(2,050 posts)
18. Go Ron Go!
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 12:58 PM
Apr 2017

One of my favorite actors, Hellboy, pretty much anything he's done, comic timing, screen presence, acting ability, politics.

I can't wait for "At the Mountains Of Madness" by Guilermo Del Toro with Ron in it, if it ever gets made, another Hellboy Sir?, before you run for office?.

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
19. They stole an election by participating in a Russian coup of the White House.
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 01:12 PM
Apr 2017

We need to control the narrative and quit being so damn nice when eloquating what fucking happened.

byronius

(7,402 posts)
50. +1000.
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 05:00 PM
Apr 2017

A lot of 'levelheaded' posters are suggesting we stop being so vehement and calmly wait for our fate.

'You're empowering the Trump voters with your hotheaded headline rhetoric.'


Naaaaahhhhh, I don't think so. I think it's time for serious Lashback.

Because all Good Americans hate Nazis, especially Russian Nazis.

And that's what we're dealing with.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
22. "suspend this regime's power to legislate"? How does that happen?
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 01:20 PM
Apr 2017

Who or what is the authority that tells the executive branch that they have no power to do anything while an investigation is underway, and how does the government operate in the meantime? Who conducts the investigation? How is the "entire regime" removed and replaced?

Yes, this all sounds good, but there doesn't seem to be a legal mechanism for any of this.

bigtree

(86,008 posts)
24. Congress is the key
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 01:24 PM
Apr 2017

...and it won't like likely be in republican hands for long.

In the meantime, I posted two excellent articles above with workable suggestions.

hughee99

(16,113 posts)
41. Intersting ideas, but I'm not sure how workable they are in the current environment.
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 02:41 PM
Apr 2017

It could also draw a great deal of heat (and take some of the blame off of Trump, where it belongs) which has the potential to backfire when the mid-terms come around.

Oneironaut

(5,535 posts)
31. I'm sorry, but this is silly rhetoric.
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 01:47 PM
Apr 2017

Calling the Trump administration a "regime" insults the office, imo. He's not a dictator. He'll be gone in less than 4 years.
As for investigations, give it time. Why does everything have to be instantaneous? Also, Trump is a legitimate President who may have severely broken the law. He is not "illegitimate" unless if it can be proven that Trump actually stole votes. Influencing through fake news isn't the same as stealing the election.
Furthermore, who is "we," and how are we going to "suspend this regime's power to legislate?"

byronius

(7,402 posts)
46. I couldn't disagree with you more.
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 04:48 PM
Apr 2017

-- They behave EXACTLY as incoming antidemocratic regimes historically behave, almost as if someone's reading the Nazi playbook.

-- 'Give it time' -- there's a body count. Every day. To not see this is specious. People are going to die from every decision he's making. You may not know them, or care about them, but Misery is wreaking havoc in their lives.

-- (1) The Russian-supplied Crosscheck software actually stole millions of legitimate votes. (2) All those swing states where Donald somehow outperformed the exit polls and national media polls by a routine five percent and then hand recounts were denied by a solid phalanx of Republican judges in the face of on-the-ground election workers noticing that the tabulators were overcounting Donald by five percent -- nothing to see here, move along, is that what you're saying? (3) 'Influencing through fake news isn't the same as stealing the election.' My gosh, that's an amazingly obtuse characterization of the fact. Why, you'd have to be purposefully downplaying everything publicly known about how the hack was done. Hmmm.

-- We. Us. Actual Americans, as opposed to KGOP operatives. I suppose you think all that glad-happy rhetoric in the founding documents about 'The People' is so much unrealistic bullshit.

Really, I can't fathom a single thought you have expressed. It's bewildering.

ck4829

(35,094 posts)
51. Trump being in office insults the office
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 05:01 PM
Apr 2017

And Trump's power doesn't come from genetics or divinity, it comes from us consenting to him having power. We, the people, allow him that legitimacy and we can take that legitimacy away at any time.

http://www.aeinstein.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/FDTD.pdf

BigmanPigman

(51,643 posts)
36. We (the people) need to flood Town halls and phonecalls
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 02:08 PM
Apr 2017

to Congress demanding all of what he said above. It needs to be as big as (if not bigger) than the turnout for the ACA repeal. Only then will the Repub do anything!

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
42. There has been a coup.
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 03:50 PM
Apr 2017

There should be no business as usual when there's been a coup. Not one more day.

llmart

(15,557 posts)
44. Exactly!
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 04:30 PM
Apr 2017

To all of you who say, "There is nothing in place to deal with a situation like this" I would say, "There's a first time for everything."

Our country is not immune to having something happen in our government that has never happened before. Let's not forget Bush/Gore. That was a first and none of us saw that coming.

This needs to be investigated and all parties involved need to be indicted. If we have to institute new rules/laws somehow, we'll figure it out.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
57. And no new legislation in the meantime!
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 07:35 PM
Apr 2017

But we do need that damn budget to keep the government open.

What demons they are.

byronius

(7,402 posts)
43. Well spoken, Hellboy!
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 04:28 PM
Apr 2017

I'm glad he wrote this. I've always liked and respected his talents, and now I know he's a thinking human being as well.

Skittles

(153,226 posts)
45. these treasonous bastards should never have had their SC pic seated
Fri Apr 28, 2017, 04:36 PM
Apr 2017

it is fucking OBVIOUS the REAL reason Obama was denied a SC pick is THEY KNEW THEIR BOY WOULD BE INSTALLED INTO THE WHITE HOUSE

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