Pres Obama often challenged Rs to show him a better plan for X, Y or Z and he'd be happy to support it.

They have no plans,just angry rhetoric. This is why they cannot govern.

And just found their arguments to be unconvincing?

What convinces people is the data to support it.

I was just asking if you had come across arguments for those various positions, and, if so, have you found them to be unconvincing? After all, there are people who have presented data that they believe supports those claims.

They put on idiots to argue he says she says, but won't go near any facts. Obamacare is a prime example: the media went for the assertions and not an examination of the facts. Media don't do facts.

That question in itself is another can of worms.

Sort of a devil's advocate thing. The examples you give have practical and economic value, data-driven. But data can be messed with, manipulated.

But (a BIG) what if, say, deportation of certain ethnic groups somehow was "proven" to have some practical upside?

Or if tax cuts for the wealthy were "proven" to actually help the middle class, but, say, there was a downside that drastically affected a small but significant percentage of the poor. Where does the concept of a "greater good" fall at that point?

I.e. why does Inhofe push climate change denial? Because the energy industry pays him to do so.

Why does Fox news attack HRC on emails but let pence off the hook? Because the argument was never about email, it was about electoral politics.

Are you inferring that some base their opinions solely on those issues?

It has little to nothing to do with smaller government.

Legislative proposals that truly benefited constituents across the board....

Unfortunately, the KGOP has discovered that there is a way to bypass the traditional practice of Governing to achieve that which serves the best interest of the masses .....

which is what typically results from being forced to substantiate ones 'claims' with factual data in order to gain bipartisan support for a budget, reform measure, etc....

And instead, successfully govern only to benefit the top 1%.....and their favorite special interest groups.

Simply maximize the # of KGOP seats held via gerrymandering.....
then rely on the press and feed them & the public emotionally driven hyperbolic descriptions of the potential results expected from the proposal...

Purposefully avoid inclusion of/reference to all actual data... and provide only broad sweeping statements of actual proposal content...


Rely on the other party to present data and then attack the MOTIVATION of the other party in order to discredit the data they presented
Being careful to either present NO data in response
Or
To have a few KGOP reps present data sets -- which contradict each other-- on a series of dates... with no confirmation of validity or reliability for any data set...
other than pure speculation based loosely on theoretical cause/ effect of varibles & outcomes delivered through emotionally charged hyperbolic fact free assertions.....

Praise be to the KGOP...
Can I get an AMEN...
Smile, the KGOP loves you...
The KGOP is your true savior...
Be not tempted to stray...
Any Sacrifices you may have to make in this lifetime....
Will be richly rewarded in the next....
Only those who accept the KGOP as their savior will enter the Kingdom...
And $200k will get you a Mar-a-Lago membership.