I have no pity.

And of job retraining and economic development. They chose the obvious con artist.

She had laid out a lot of ideas and plans, and really had the most sensible approach of any candidate. Instead of people listening - and touting her ideas - she was accused of ignoring those voters. Sure, if by "ignore" you mean draw up a comprehensive and realistic plan of getting jobs to the area.

I never understood the coal miners, first of all for believing the Orange con artist, and secondly for wanting those jobs back in the first place. Coal mining was a dangerous, health-ruining industry led for the most part by owners who ignored mining regulations that at least tried to protect miners. Don Blankenship went to prison after 29 miners died in an explosion. His sentence was only a year; I think it should have been a LOT longer.

Hillary, far from ignoring them, talked directly to their very real needs. Almost everyone, including the lying short-fingered shitstorm, knew that coal is dead and the future is clean energy. Dump blatantly played to their fears; Hillary had a workable plan that potentially would improve their lives, and health.

I'm revealing myself as a Bernie guy (still am BTW). That said, I'd be thrilled to have Dame Hillary in the Oval Office right now. But that she's NOT there isn't her fault alone - not as I see it anyways. It's the fault of her whole campaign treating tRump as if he was a legitimate candidate instead of the snake oil barker that so MANY of us could see plain as day.
Sure, there's folks like ourselves that DO listen - listen and parse every syllable to the nth degree. But there are also so many folks that have to be grabbed by the collar and snarled at to bring them out of their SmartPhone stupor. Remember "Git 'em outta here! I'll pay your legal fees if you rough them up too much!"

Did the HC gang get visceral and whack those ignorant voter dolts dolts to their feeble senses? Nope - we took the high road - so high that too few even caught sight of it. "Hey! we had a legitimate CONtender ( in Trump) that emerged from the herd of the right..... Guess we should take him on as if he were of sound mind and principles." Right.

Yeah - yeah - I know.... she truly WON. It's just that we were too busy to raise holy hell - especially when those three states wouldn't allow vote recounts. I honestly do not think Trump even knows what "strategy" is. But his handlers told him to fling a bunch of populist bullshit that no matter HOW stupid a carrot it really was, the desperate slurped it up. So now - now we just sit and watch all the agencies that we trusted would watch out for us, being ground up and fed to the hounds of privatization - we get to hold our heads up all nobel like take solace in that we took the high road.

I appreciate your calm. I get angry.

thank you.

Obviously those coal miners would rather be fooled by simplistic lies than engage their brains a little to listen to credible plans that are realistic.

Of course, the fact that a swaggering, blustering loudmouth white male delivered the lies while an intelligent, accomplished woman had the real goods probably had a lot to do with the outcome.

So many 'Muricans would rather be lied to and conned than have to think and figure things out.

Must also be very simple as their attention span is no longer than their gawd emperor and his are shorter than his wittle pingers.

Coal is all these people know. They don't want retraining. They want to be paid well to do a filthy and dangerous job. Change is scary & hard. The Donald told them what they wanted to hear, & they fell for it, hook, line, and sinker.

she is a WOMAN.

And ***EMAILS***

They've openly admitted that every reasonable person knows the elitist triggered snowflake concept of retraining and economic development or liberal moving to a new state is the only solution for those folks. But it was easier and more effective to lie to them. Freepers have shared articles where their boasts of how easy it was to manipulate them.

They lied to the poor factory workers too. And lots of other folks.

Watch them continue their completely insane fight against retraining. Education (even trade schools) make you soft and weak like a liberal.

I am so over the term snowflake.

Let the right overuse it, not us.

Once again undereducated people believe in bullshit!

and so easy to manipulate into anything and get them to blame someone else.

They act as if ignorance is strength and intelligence is weakness. Which is really shitty since trade schools or other types of training are the only hope many out of work coal miners have. It's not like immigrants are stealing any coal jobs.

eat crap food by either ignorance or making good food unaffordable to them.

They wanted to be lied to and don the con gave them that.

After willfully blindfolding themselves to the facts

The people of my area were told over 30 years ago that we had a limited window for coal production. The powers that be in the area chose to ignore the warnings even though they were in their face. Now our economy is in the pits and there is a long hard road ahead of us to even get back to being acceptable. The disgusting thing to me that the people like me that tried to warn them are suffering along with the idiots who refused to listen to the words about the changing times. Coal is a dying resource and the sooner areas like mine realize it and do something to adapt our economies the better. One of those things is to stop listening to the corporate voices that give them false hope. Politicians like drumpf will say and do anything to get in power and the lies told to the people in this region are a shining example of what orange man and his cronies will do to grab that power.

We frequently don't want to believe what we're being told. It's not always that we don't know there are alternatives but more the inertial thing.

My parents did this and my grandparents also. How can I all of a sudden be a non-Appalachian coal miner (or anything else)? I want to work and be productive but there really is no path out of the deep groove that is my life. I don't know many educated people in my group of friends. We all hang together for friendship and talking about how the government doesn't work for us.

Welcome to D.U.! Having lived in coal mining areas in western Pennsylvania, southern West Virginia and eastern Kentucky (my ex was a mining engineer), I could never understand how these people could possibly believe the crap Trump was selling about bringing back the coal jobs. They knew better and I would have thought they would have treated him with the scorn he deserved. Some really blind wishful thinking seemed to have taken hold. Hillary had reasonable plans for changing the focus of the area into new employment opportunities, but she made the mistake of saying that those mining jobs were GONE. She lost the miners' votes because that's where those voters stopped listening and the Republicans were quick to pillory her for telling the truth.

damn stupidity, now we're all going to sink because of their stunning stupidity!

Last edited Sat May 27, 2017, 12:11 AM - Edit history (1)

Anyone who has half a brain is some smarty pants elitist in their world

listen and learn, and then say hey, you know, that does seem right. .... but many of these people absolutely refused, no matter how many facts and figures were given to them. It was incredible!

I still owe a shitload in student loans to get my graduate degree in order to have this job. Oh well, at least I like my job. I used to make a lot more but hated the jobs.

they made a mad grab to stop themselves from falling.

They should have read some books instead of watching The Apprentice- aka Groper Don the Con

They've just been lied to for so long they forgot which way was up.

This might just be the wakeup call they need.

Can't believe he could fool them - they don't even know the truth of their own industry

including the preachers. Orange Shitbomb offered them hot air and wishful thinking and they fell for it.

which is why I keep saying we need to sit back and stay out of the way for a while as he merrily goes along, sowing the seeds of his own destruction.

and realize how sleazy people like Trump and his cohorts are, how most of what they say are endless lies and they are only out for themselves for money, greed, power, self-enrichment. They could give a F about the coal miners and in fact most Americans.

economy particularly in rust belt states. We should be trying to create jobs for our people (Hillary had a plan)..but what does Trump do tax cuts, shitty health that will cost jobs...everything that hurts people, that is what he does. When we get back to power, we need a manufacturing plan and other job programs to help create jobs and maybe there should be a new agency to foster job growth. I have seen grown men weep when they got layoff notices;these folks are people too and have families. The reality is that there is not much of a safety net left and people who can't find work go hungry. I work with a food pantry and more than once we ran out of food and raided our own kitchens ...hubs worked in autos for years...we were management and in many ways, union is still better:more protection...but jobs were lost to gains in productivity and many were sent over seas. And now with retail going under it's going to get much worse. You can't be great country unless you make things...selling hamburgers to each other won't keep the economy going.

(beyond The Apprentice, still not a great reference when looking at the idea behind it) could have predicted he'd try to pull his usual con on the whole nation.

many just watch nightly...many cable companies don't even offer CNN or MSNBC or charge extra ...just Fox is available everywhere.

(western PA, southern W.VA, and eastern Kentucky), the latter two a couple of decades ago, admittedly before Fox, I still can't believe that these people weren't aware that these jobs weren't coming back. Some crazy wishful thinking was going on, and nobody wanted to hear Hillary's plans for revitalizing those areas. She said the jobs were gone and miners stop listening. With the Rust Belt jobs, it was a bit more feasible that some of those might return, (the Trumps, for instance, could have started the trend--fat chance!) BTW, my ex was a mining engineer and manager and his family and some of mine had been longtime laboring miners, so I'm not considering this as some dillettante who didn't really know anyone (my ex included) who came home covered in coal dust.

one to suggest a manufacturing plan...to bring modern manufacturing to this country...and sadly people here in Ohio just don't understand.

I feel bad for them, but if a politician tells you something that sounds to go to be true, don't fucking fall for it!

their decision to vote for him in spite of being warned repeatedly that he was lying through his teeth.

It takes a certain kind of person to admit they were wrong about Cheeto. I doubt that the coal crowd falls into the category. So much easier to blame the Dems, Obama, HRC, the media, or the shadow government.

Coal isn't going away completely, not while steel is being made. However, they're not sending people down into the ground to fetch it, they're just taking away the mountain covering it up. Those old fashioned miner jobs are not coming back and they got SUCKERED.

I hope some of them get mad enough to do something about it, like join us.

have been developed that when used in conjunction with natural gas, can perform the function that Coke from coal performs. The ceramics can be recycled a number of times before needing to be refreshed. Even for metal smelting, the days of coal are numbered.

Not surprised

Don Blankenship.

Why would anyone like him lie to them?

Solar on mountain tops that have been leveled would be a good start. Plug it into the existing infrastructure and away it goes.

The education factor alone will create jobs.

how people fall for con-men like this? I am always surprised to see people state that they couldn't have seen this coming. I try to have compassion for them but it is so hard to. Most people saw this coming a mile away. Some people saw it and STILL voted for him. Donald has always been corrupt and a con-man his whole life and he has always left gigantic paths of destruction in his wake - shattering peoples lives and businesses. Siphoning their fortunes and their souls all to line his own pockets and boost his massive EGO. It doesn't take much research at all to see this and to know that would be the result of making this man-baby, President.

I know that the authoritarian mindset really, really likes it when an apparent strongman is telling them what they want to hear. But sometimes, even the wimpiest panty-waist can be telling an objective truth at odds with your fondest desire. How are you supposed to figure it out? Who's just telling you what you want to hear, and who's giving you the straight scoop, even if that truth is ugly? It can be tough to tell, sometimes.

But at some point, you find out who was telling you the truth, and who was just bullshitting you. The question then becomes what do you do with this information? If you've read the story of Samson and Delilah in Judges 16, you might shake your head at Samson: Delilah deceives him over and over again, setting the Philistines on him each time. Each time, Samson whips the Philistines' asses. Delilah pouts that Samson doesn't trust her, and we're back at square one. Until Samson reveals the true secret of his strength to her. Then he's fucked, but good.

What are you miners going to do? Run back into the arms of Trump and Republicans again? Or try something else, even if you don't like the people bringing you the something new to try?

...many are on SSI, which he proposes to take away too...so he is basically strip mining coal workers!

SSDI is a cottage industry in Trump country.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/local/2017/03/30/disabled-or-just-desperate/?utm_term=.f32e02b5deaf

Disabled, or just desperate?
Rural Americans turn to disability as jobs dry up

No problemo..... Just waiting for all those coal jobs Trump is going to bring back.

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=coal+country+disability+social+security

These people were duped and used shamelessly by the Republican Party.

Why doesn't the Democratic Party have outreach to these people? Why aren't their own state governments doing anything for them? Education is the answer, and perhaps some social programs to help them find a new career or relocate to another place.

Trump used them shamelessly. They shouldn't have been sitting ducks.

How about opening your eyes and using your brains
Instead of being such suckers for rightwing charlatans.

They made a choice. They have to live with that choice. Sure, the 10, or 15, or 20% in those counties who chose otherwise get caught in the trap. That's deeply unfortunate, but they did choose their neighbors.

OK, so the second objection goes like this: instead of "wishing" for their punishment for their Trump votes, make the positive case for voting Dem in the next election. OK, sure, I get it. And it's a good point. But there really is no argument like reality, like the concrete effects of your decisions. Why is it that we can preach tough love in drug rehab, but not in politics? It might be time to say, well, live with your choices.

voted for Trump because of coal. RR was booming when they demand for coal was up. However, once the demand was down yards in those areas shit down. Union told them to vote democrat but they did not listen. They believed Trump instead.

So miners won't even know he said it.

be spread by Fox.

about how the mean liberal media is criticizing Trump on that "successful" overseas trip. He is doing such a wonderful job but the media is just "picking" little mishaps.

Hillary had a plan to help them start building a new economy, they hated her for that.

I don't think they can handle the truth. Let's not waste our electoral energy on those people, they will ignore us and vote for Trump and republicans. We are betteroff looking for votes from some of the 43% of Americans that did not vote in 2016.

See this relevant article about Venezuela today.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/democracy-post/wp/2017/05/25/venezuelas-propaganda-state-is-collapsing-under-its-own-weight/


If I were setting strategy for Democrats, I'd tell them to describe the propaganda machine, and also describe WHY it exists -- Breitbart, Reason are funded today by GOP donors, Murdoch has had an agenda for years, and all these outlets coordinate on talking points. Ultimate goal is to destroy the govt to cut taxes mainly on GOP donors.

Progressives do a bad job with narrative -- WHY does the RW propaganda machine exist, and WHO is behind it.

and if you look at the propaganda it's directed at whites and particularly racist whites.

the way a child believes in Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny. He told them what they wanted to hear and they didn't even try to figure out if it was true or not. Sadly, between black lung and the opiod epidemic not sure how many will be around to vote in 2020 or 2018 for that matter.

them in easy terms what they wanted to hear. May Trump rest in hell or wherever.

I pray to God you have a vile, painful life...so if you're a republican, do us all a favor: go crawl in a hole and fuck yourselves. I pray these miners live a long horrible life with their voting choice, maybe the younger generations will take notice and wake up

The GOP told coal miners jobs were coming back. Progressives didn't communicate as well.
So the GOP and the president won.


We are in an information war. On one side are Fox, Limbaugh, Breitbart, Infowars, this White House, GOP donors, Russia, and Sinclair.

On the other side are us, progressives and patriotic Americans.

We have been losing the information war.
To rescue the country, we have to start winning.

The truth is usually a much narrower, and less politically attractive perspective. Lies can be made exciting. The truth often cannot. And when their side owns the airwaves, how do we even get their citizen hostages to listen?

This is an enormous social problem, one that is tied up with the Powell memo, the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine, the loosening of regulations on media consolidation, and Citizens United. They have been bombarded with these lies for a generation and a half now, since 1971. They are now victims of a national version of Stockholm Syndrome. I have no idea how our side undoes that degree of systemic damage.

When journalists are committed to reporting both sides of any issue, a logical strategy is to tell egregious lies because you know the journalists will repeat those lies.


Journalists need to start reporting the truth, not what people say. That's the only way for us to recover from a political situation where the GOP is willing to lie blatantly.

It's a lot easier to report what other people say than to actually decide who is right.
That's why journalists often just report what people say.

I have people in my circle... GLBTQ, a refugee, people who are chronically sick and are concerned about the "world's greatest healthcare system in the world" getting even 'greater' in the eyes of Republicans, Muslims, and more... and my love and respect is with them, not with people who just get concerned when the cuts come for them.

We are in an information war, but I don't think we're losing it, because we're not even fighting it. Fighting it means realizing people with "pseudo-Trumpgrets" (People who are only upset with Trump because not only did Trump fail them but cuts to any programs they had came for them in addition to 'the other' and will really just vote for the next Trump) are as much on the other side as Fox, Limbaugh, Breitbart, Infowars, this White House, GOP donors, Russia, and Sinclair. Not people to be converted or reached out to, but humiliated and disgraced as much as any alt-right crackpot should be.

Even if they were lied to and now have regrets.

Many Americans were propagandandized. I blame the propandanda outlets, not the Americans who believed them. We want to unite average Americans against the GOP donor propagandists, not reject people who voted for Trump and know they made a mistake.

when they have disasters. They will see we are not evil and are helping to "save" their sorry asses. Warning: do NOT sound like elitist smarty pants, do not bring a cup of Starbucks coffee with you and "dumb it down." And don't wear any "elitist" clothes.

(on twitter) as soon as he finds out about it. Lying is his only skill.

'Cuz you know - he'll really mean it that time!

What will it take to convince these people they've been fed lies and they've voted for people who will do them substantial harm?

a world cruise.

seriously. The conservative mind, primordial fear and all of that ...

I kind of stopped at "coal miners crushed"

I am one of those bugged by the propensity for news writers to put a double entendre or pun in the headline.

our lives we caint do nuthin else but dig in the dirt now they done took our dirt diggin jobs away!

Yes. They're stupid.

Churches and religious programs on TV are lousy with con men stealing little old ladies social security food and rent money.

Fox news....hate radio...and of course the republican party. All huge cons.

IMO.

They were all good with the 'others' losing jobs, benefits,SNAP, SSI etc.

But they thought Trump would be the champion of white folks.

Duh.

If they knew, they might re-evaluate him.

As unemployment, SSDI, SNAP, ACA, and others come under the axe.

believing him.

Yes he's a conservative. But it's true that there is a need for trade jobs everywhere. Every small town in this country needs plumbers and electricians. A lot of places need welders, machinists, construction workers, etc.

it absolutely blows my mind that some people are against this

Never once have i heard anyone say that they wanted to be a coal miner. We need other industries that dont kill us. Fuck coal and the shitty life shortening jobs it provides.

Nothing more to say, except that he lied to anyone and everyone to get votes, not just coal miners.

That, and the Republicans and their talking media heads provided him with a whole lot of cover for those lies.

============

..as they were told by Donald Trump and Mitch McConnell on the campaign trail.

Only one party wants to invest in you and your children's future.The other party wants to drain every last bit from you and leave you for dead.

and they're taking the country down with them.