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Can a Presidential pardon be challenged? (Original Post) mhw May 2017 OP
Doubtful MichMary May 2017 #1
No. There is no path for that. MineralMan May 2017 #2
No can't be challenged marylandblue May 2017 #3
No. rock May 2017 #4
I don't like the pardon... California_Republic May 2017 #5
Most states now have pardon boards to recommend what the governor should do Bucky May 2017 #10
I like it...got Chelsea Manning out of jail...you take the good and the bad. Demsrule86 May 2017 #36
Anything can be challenged.. but courts will tend to side with the scope of the power granted by MedusaX May 2017 #6
Thanks. Its Interesting. So AG Schneiderman could prosecute Trumps, etc, if they find for RICO mhw May 2017 #9
This is the one thing that gives me hope. LOL Lib May 2017 #26
I believe that would be Schneiderman's crowning acheivement mhw May 2017 #29
LOL LOL Lib May 2017 #33
You would think a pardon would come with some kind of stipulation like being on probation world wide wally May 2017 #7
That would be "parole". A pardon frees the person pardoned, and it erases the conviction. Voltaire2 May 2017 #8
The President can commute a sentence or part of a sentence. Very similar to parole. Hassin Bin Sober May 2017 #13
How does that explain Ford's pardon of Nixon, for which he had not been convicted or sentenced? madinmaryland May 2017 #14
ex parte garland (1867) onenote May 2017 #16
Thank you, sir (or maam). nt madinmaryland May 2017 #17
... UTUSN May 2017 #11
No, otherwise Ford's pardon of Nixon would have been challenged at the time. book_worm May 2017 #12
Yes. For instance if a president pardoned himself it would certainly be challenged. DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #15
Who would have standing? onenote May 2017 #18
The prosecutor. What if he killed somebody ? What if he assaulted somebody? DemocratSinceBirth May 2017 #19
Based on federal charges, his authority is unlimited except for impeachment. Hassin Bin Sober May 2017 #22
Murder (in most cases) isn't a federal crime. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2017 #27
What if he shoots the mailman? Orrex May 2017 #35
I think after the first few the USPS would stop delivering to his address. The Velveteen Ocelot May 2017 #37
He'll really feel the pinch when they cut off his Yankee Candle mailers Orrex May 2017 #38
That was a great read, thx! LOL Lib May 2017 #28
In matters of impeachment it would be Congress and ruled by SCOTUS, yes? Hassin Bin Sober May 2017 #21
The president can't grant a pardon in an impeachment case onenote May 2017 #23
Agree. Hassin Bin Sober May 2017 #24
Impeachment is not a criminal procedure... clementine613 May 2017 #25
I don't think it could be successfully challenged. And I wouldn't put it past Trump StevieM May 2017 #30
The POTUS can only pardon federal crimes. roamer65 May 2017 #20
I really think this is where the Trump fam will go down. Get Gouliani too please! mhw May 2017 #31
No, the power to pardon is absolute. Foamfollower May 2017 #32
NOPE. But the orange jackass cannot pardon himself. It would have to be from President Pence. Lil Missy May 2017 #34

MichMary

(1,714 posts)
1. Doubtful
Mon May 29, 2017, 03:53 PM
May 2017

There are probably a lot of pardons that successor Presidents would have wanted to reverse. I think that may have come up with Clinton's pardons of FALN members, but Bush didn't do it. I would guess that it was because he couldn't.

Bucky

(54,027 posts)
10. Most states now have pardon boards to recommend what the governor should do
Mon May 29, 2017, 06:31 PM
May 2017

It's a very powerful tool. It's often used by democrats to ameliorate injustices, and by Republicans to cover up corruption. I expect to see some pretty wacky headlines between Thanksgiving 2020 and Inauguration Day 2021

Demsrule86

(68,586 posts)
36. I like it...got Chelsea Manning out of jail...you take the good and the bad.
Tue May 30, 2017, 11:02 AM
May 2017

All in all sometimes it rectifies true miscarriages of justice...also got pot users out of life sentences.

MedusaX

(1,129 posts)
6. Anything can be challenged.. but courts will tend to side with the scope of the power granted by
Mon May 29, 2017, 04:07 PM
May 2017

the Constitution...

The pardon must be accepted by the person being pardoned..., so, in that case, the recipient has the power to challenge the pardon..

And of course Pres Pardon only applies to Federal Criminal charges/crimes and is not
Applicable to civil, or state, local charges.

As for our current Nightmare....

>snip<
Congress, like the courts, has the power to compel witnesses to testify before them.
Should any witness refuse, Congress is granted the power to hold these witnesses in contempt.
By proxy, the power granted to Congress to hold in contempt anyone who refuses to testify also exists outside the pardoning power.

This means, that if the executive branch orders any of its administration not to testify before the legislative branch, Congress may hold that person in contempt, without the possibility of that witness being granted a pardon.
In this manner, witnesses are more likely to cooperate with Congress, especially in cases where the executive branch is being investigated.
>snip<
http://people.howstuffworks.com/presidential-pardon5.htm

 

mhw

(678 posts)
9. Thanks. Its Interesting. So AG Schneiderman could prosecute Trumps, etc, if they find for RICO
Mon May 29, 2017, 06:27 PM
May 2017

..in NY & Trump couldn't pardon.

Good to know

LOL Lib

(1,462 posts)
26. This is the one thing that gives me hope.
Mon May 29, 2017, 11:57 PM
May 2017

Schneiderman needs to get him on state racketeering charges. The whole damn family would be even better.

 

mhw

(678 posts)
29. I believe that would be Schneiderman's crowning acheivement
Tue May 30, 2017, 02:33 AM
May 2017

Schneiderman for President 2020.
Trump would glow in the dark if that happened.

He'd be so mad!



LOL Lib

(1,462 posts)
33. LOL
Tue May 30, 2017, 10:47 AM
May 2017

Glow in the dark Trump! You found a way to make him even more repulsive and I thought that was impossible!

Voltaire2

(13,061 posts)
8. That would be "parole". A pardon frees the person pardoned, and it erases the conviction.
Mon May 29, 2017, 05:22 PM
May 2017

The president has no constitutional power to parole anyone.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,330 posts)
13. The President can commute a sentence or part of a sentence. Very similar to parole.
Mon May 29, 2017, 10:03 PM
May 2017

See: scooter Libby and Chelsea Manning

onenote

(42,714 posts)
16. ex parte garland (1867)
Mon May 29, 2017, 10:38 PM
May 2017

Supreme Court: "It (the pardon power) extends to every offense known to the law, and may be exercised at any time after its commission, either before legal proceedings are taken, or during their pendency, or after conviction and judgment.''

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,330 posts)
22. Based on federal charges, his authority is unlimited except for impeachment.
Mon May 29, 2017, 11:00 PM
May 2017

He can't pardon himself or anyone else for state charges.

The Velveteen Ocelot

(115,735 posts)
27. Murder (in most cases) isn't a federal crime.
Tue May 30, 2017, 12:04 AM
May 2017

The president can only pardon federal crimes. Murder is federal only in limited circumstances, usually involving the killing of federal officials, judges, etc. or murders committed in the course of another federal crime, like bank robbery.

Orrex

(63,216 posts)
35. What if he shoots the mailman?
Tue May 30, 2017, 11:01 AM
May 2017

Hell, what if he shoots all the letter carriers, pardoning himself after each? Who would have standing to challenge him?

LOL Lib

(1,462 posts)
28. That was a great read, thx!
Tue May 30, 2017, 12:11 AM
May 2017

I can see Drumpf giving the self pardon a try just because he is a showboat and wannabe dictator.

onenote

(42,714 posts)
23. The president can't grant a pardon in an impeachment case
Mon May 29, 2017, 11:01 PM
May 2017

That much is clear. But pardoning one of a crime that gives rise to an impeachment proceeding is not the same as pardoning one of impeachment.

Hassin Bin Sober

(26,330 posts)
24. Agree.
Mon May 29, 2017, 11:11 PM
May 2017

Can he pardon himself from any obstruction charge right now?

What if he pardons himself, Flynn, kushner and everyone else down the line? Does that end the special prosecutor and any FBI investigation?

That would leave us with the Senate/Congress investigations which would basically be a hand job at that point.

Pardon everybody based on a "witch hunt" and then claim no evidence was ever found. Let's move on. I wonder if this would be possible?

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
30. I don't think it could be successfully challenged. And I wouldn't put it past Trump
Tue May 30, 2017, 02:36 AM
May 2017

to pardon himself.

Most presidents, even corrupt ones, would be too embarrassed to do that. Not Trump.

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
20. The POTUS can only pardon federal crimes.
Mon May 29, 2017, 10:50 PM
May 2017

If Kushner or any of the Dump cabal are charged under state RICO laws, his power to pardon is useless.

Keep a close eye on the NY AG.

 

mhw

(678 posts)
31. I really think this is where the Trump fam will go down. Get Gouliani too please!
Tue May 30, 2017, 02:42 AM
May 2017

Does Preet Bharara work with him in some capacity now?

Not sure what role he may play in taking down the mob, but here is a cool Preet quote:

"A lot of the system is rigged, and a lot of your fellow Americans have been forgotten and have been left behind. Those are not alternative facts and that is not fake news, but I would respectfully submit: You don't drain a swamp with a slogan," Bharara said.


Preet for President 2020.
Yaaa!


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