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question everything

(47,531 posts)
Thu Jun 1, 2017, 08:45 PM Jun 2017

Medical charges

Ever since I've carried an individual policy, perhaps even before, I paid attention to the charges and to what insurance paid and, personally, felt bad for the providers.

And now after spouse had a knee replaced, stayed three days in the hospital, I reviewed insurance payments to several physicians and anesthesiologist. The physicians submitted a total of $13,000 for which the insurance reimbursed them $3,100. Nothing owed by us.

And then the hospital submitted an invoice for $41,000! Medicare paid $13,000 and there was a comment of "Medicare Sequestration Adjustment" of $260 (I thought that the sequester was long gone). Our insurance paid $1,100 and our share was $200.

And I have to wonder: either the service is worth $41,000 or $14,000. How can there be such a gap?

My spouse wry comment is that if the hospital would have to accept $14,000 for $41,000 otherwise it would go bankrupt.

Thus, why charge $41,000 if all you are going to get about a third? And I have seen it with other submissions.

Even with the physicians - they were paid one fourth of what they charged.

And I am not even talking about people with no insurance. I just don't understand such a gap. I think that medical providers who, after all, save life after long study, should be paid what they think they are worth. On the other hand, why charge so much more than what you think you will be paid?

And thinking of the tens of millions that CEOs of insurance companies make really makes me sick.




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onecent

(6,096 posts)
3. Yes, I have seen things like that, but my insurance pays everything,
Thu Jun 1, 2017, 08:54 PM
Jun 2017

so I just put them in the garbage after a bit. But I don't understand when I go into the hospital and the bill
is so much, and medicare pays hardly anything, and the second one pays even less....but I still am not
charged.

I don't want to get into a trap by calling someone about it..so I don't...but I'd love to know.

I have to have my left knee replaced, and I asked one of the girls when I left the office if I should wait
until 2018, or do it this fall. She said, "NO...do it this year". Blue Cross is moving from Missouri and she
has seen other things on the books (couldn't talk to me about it) but I don't want to owe 2,000 or 3,000 with
this knee replacement.

So I'm going to have it done this year while the medicare and insurance is still secure.

question everything

(47,531 posts)
6. Indeed. Your insurnace (Plan B) should say how much you pay for hospitalization
Thu Jun 1, 2017, 09:05 PM
Jun 2017

our says $200 so it was not a surprise.

As I mentioned, many years ago when I saw the report I called the doctor's office. Was not that much of a difference, and was told that that I did not owe anything. They had their contract to accept what the insurance paid with my co-pay, or not.

As an aside: if you are going to have your knee replaced, be aware that the surgery is just the beginning. You have to be very diligent in doing all the exercises to strengthen the muscles around the knee - even before the surgery - and certainly after. Movement of the joint is very important. The therapist measures the angel at every visit. And we were told that the first two months are crucial in putting flexibility and strength there.

Good luck!

onecent

(6,096 posts)
10. Oh I have already had my right knee done last January. I know it takes alot of stamina.....
Fri Jun 2, 2017, 06:23 AM
Jun 2017

Thanks for the tips though, I appreciate any I can get....it's taking a long time for this knee
to come back to it's real self, that's one reason I'd like to wait til next year....

bresue

(1,007 posts)
8. My own observation
Thu Jun 1, 2017, 09:21 PM
Jun 2017

may help...may not!

When health care systems bill out to customers, the mark up is usually 90%. Hospitals will push for the highest price that they can get. In retail, mark up costs are usually 40%. Depending on which industry, mark-up is varied. However, there is no federal or state regulation that controls or restricts what health care can charge to patients. Yes, it is WAY over-valued and that includes all health care systems. When I was younger, I worked for a private nursing home which we found out that the owners would budget operating costs at 50% of any revenue coming in by the patients. The other 50% would be their profit. Nursing staff, housekeeping, kitchen help, and maintenance were paid a pitiful wage....compared to the amount of charges to the patients. I am sure it has not changed.

I also worked with a health insurance company in claims. Health insurance companies will market individual entities such as hospitals, doctors, labs, and radiology. Health insurance companies will then negotiate a contract with these health care partners for each year. When both parties have agreed on a mutual price (every single service, item, surgery, etc is priced), the contract is signed. As patients receive care, the hospital may bill for $41,000, but because they had a contract for a lesser price for a knee procedure...the insurance company is only obligated to pay the lesser amount.

And that is one of the reasons Dump is shaking up the health insurance companies. Their actuaries do not know what to propose for the new year with all this confusion over health-care. And Dump is talking about taking away funding for any pre-existing conditions.

bresue

(1,007 posts)
9. You might keep an eye for that!
Thu Jun 1, 2017, 09:27 PM
Jun 2017

Sometimes hospitals double bill and get away with it. When I worked for the health insurance companies, we would hire independent auditors that would go into some of these bigger hospitals and go over billings.

I personally seen a very, very huge check come back to us because they had incorrectly or over-billed the insurance company.
My fingers were singing after I touched it.....

napi21

(45,806 posts)
4. I recently had 3 different surgeries and my bills reflected the same results as yours.
Thu Jun 1, 2017, 08:59 PM
Jun 2017

My share was covered by a medicare supplement so my op was .00

What I'd like to hear is how those Medicare payments compare to someone who's had surgery but wasn't on Medicare but regular insurance. I know all insurance companies negotiate rates with Docs and hospitals, and supposedly a lot of Docs won't accept medicare patients, although I've never had a problem. I suspect Medicare is exceptionally low in comparison.

Warpy

(111,338 posts)
5. It's a scam. Here's how it works
Thu Jun 1, 2017, 09:03 PM
Jun 2017

Providers do "fantasy billing" that even plutocrats would balk at. Insurance companies pay less. Uninsured people pay about three to five times what the fantasy charge is but always considerably less than the fantasy. That keeps suckers thinking they're getting a deal.

It's just another reason we need single payer wherein no one gets a bill but the single insurer.

 

AngryAmish

(25,704 posts)
7. It is to drive certain insurance patients to certain hospitals.
Thu Jun 1, 2017, 09:05 PM
Jun 2017

I am kinda drunk now and will try to explain when sober.

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