I told you

hundred other professional liars on 1000 radio stations.

reagan, north, bush senior, etc were traitors for what they did with the iran hostages and iran contra but now reagan is a god, north went from talk radio to tv careers, and bush stole the wh for his son.

as long as liberals ignore that giant buzz machine the rcons write the history. they decide what is and isn't 'politically correct' and they decise who is and isn't acceptable - in media, govt,as immigrants, as citizens.

and we let our university and pro sports teams support them.

It was shortly after the election. I was so disappointed in him, I felt ill. We all knew it, especially in those last three swing states. I remember posting about it.

If the democrats don't start fighting now, this will never get fixed. The GOP sure isn't going to do anything about it.

Information and assessment is ongoing....

He said no voting totals had been changed.

Sam

hack into voter registration databases for fun and leave it at that. MSM even reported on that before the election. Why would they stop there? Duh.

Not to mention the usual Repub shenanigans.

....it could have been republicans who hacked voting machines/

Kremlin Klan.

Last edited Fri Jun 2, 2017, 06:23 PM - Edit history (1)

The machines were hacked, votes were changed. WI, MI, PA were obviously stolen, this fact has been proven here beyond doubt.
Anyone who claims Hillary actually lost the election is simply repeating a right wing lie.
Our country was attacked, this is worse than 9/11, the foundation of our democracy has been destroyed, we are now an occupied nation, the Russians have won the battles so far, we must resist and fight for the return of what is rightfully ours.
We must work with our brave Democratic leaders and do everything humanly possible to remove trump and his co-conspirators from office and put them in jail.
We have a colossal mess to clean up, our society is broken. We have a large segment of our communities that actually support this illegitimate regime. What do we do with these extremists once the tRump conspirators are convicted and removed? Most likely these are the militia types just waiting for such an opportunity to spread chaos and violence. Just think of the trump supporter on the train in Portland last week and multiply it by several million. That "nice white guy" that lives down the street with the trump sticker on his truck and a flag on his house could be the next mass murderer. Our country is sick and it's not a head cold or the flu, we have cancer. If this "cancer" isn't cured the "patient" (our nation) will die. How do we treat this "cancer"? Either it gets removed or the tumor gets shrunk so it doesn't spread, meaning these trump supporters are going to have to change or be removed from society.
Like I said, this is a real mess and our next legitimate leader must be a person of incredible will and impeccable character, lets bring back President Obama, seriously.

The majority of tRump supporters are well armed and on a hair trigger. They are known to local law enforcement and people in our party. The situation is approaching civil war. Once trump and his cabal are removed there will be hell to pay if we don't get out in front of it. Martial law will be required and a massive number of people will be going to jail, if you can't feel the tension in the streets of America you are either ignorant or in denial. The hate is real, you can see it in their eyes.
I'll go out on a limb here and say there is a sizable minority of tRump supporters that will be the "problem" and need to be removed from society. I'll be generous and say 90% of his supporters will not cause a problem but 10% of the people who voted for tRump works out to be 5 or 6 million people potentially causing a problem and revolting against the legitimate removal of criminal government.
We fought one civil war to rid our country of the evils of slavery and now the same segment of society is itching for another fight. It is our duty as citizens to protect and preserve our democracy. When we take back power, and we will before the 2020 election, we need to be prepared to support our leaders to the fullest.
I would like to see a President Pelosi and Maxine Waters as VP with Maxine leading a truth and reconciliation commission.

Are we talking arresting all registered Republicans and anyone else known to have voted for Trump?

An illegitimate government is going to have to be removed, the entire executive branch is complicit. In 100 years our great children will compare us to the greatest generation.

They can cause harm.

Detroit voted but did not choose a presidential candidate. Very hard indeed.

in the previous election.

http://www.mlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/11/michigans_presidential_electio.html

From the link: 87,810: Number of voters this election who cast a ballot but did not cast a vote for president. That compares to 49,840 undervotes for president in 2012.

And I still find that hard to believe.

Could this be kept a secret even with Mueller investigation? Deed is done now.....

I have suspected this since Nov. 11th but I have seen no summary of "hard" evidence beyond innuendo. I'm not doubting you.
I also believe there was vote shifting hacking going on in 2016, just I have seen no good evidence beyond my suspicions.

I'm actively seeking hard evidence.

should give you at least some pause. Do you really think that if there was some evidence of actual vote changing that every Democratic official would turn a blind eye to it? Really? They spend all that time and money and effort to get elected and then just stop caring. That doesn't sound a little odd to you?

The people who tell you about so-called vote hacking are preying on your outrage to get hits and attention.

Thank you.

people say this isn't an issue.

Verified Voting Blog: Technology Experts’ Letter to Georgia Secretary of State Brian Kemp
Mar 15 2017

This letter was sent to Georgia Secretary of State Brian Kemp on March 14, 2017. Download PDF

On March 3rd it was reported that the Federal Bureau of Investigations is conducting a criminal investigation into an alleged cyber attack of the Kennesaw State University Center for Election Systems. According to the KSU Center for Election Systems’ website, “the Secretary of State authorized KSU to create a Center for Election Systems, dedicated to assisting with the deployment of the Direct Record Electronic (DRE) voting technology and providing ongoing support.”[1] The Center is responsible for ensuring the integrity of the voting systems and developing and implementing security procedures for the election management software installed in all county election offices and voting systems.

The Center has access to most if not all voting systems and software used in Georgia. It also is responsible for programming these systems and accessing and validating the software on these systems. It is our understanding that the Center also programs and populates with voter records the electronic poll books used in polling places statewide. A security breach at the Center could have dire security consequences for the integrity of the technology and all elections carried out in Georgia.

In order for citizens to have faith and confidence in their elections, transparency is crucial, including about events such as the KSU breach, and its extent and severity. While we understand that this investigation is ongoing and that it will take time for the full picture to emerge, we request that you be as forthcoming and transparent as possible regarding critical information about the breach and the investigation, as such leadership not only will be respected in Georgia but also emulated in other states where such a breach could occur. We expect that you are already pursuing questions such as the following, regarding the breach, and trust that you will make public the results of such inquiry:

Can you estimate when the attacker breached KSU’s system?
How did the attacker breach KSU’s system?
How was the breach discovered?
Which files were accessed?
Were any files accessed that related to software or “hashes” for the voting machines?
Is there any evidence that files were modified? If so, which files?
Had KSU begun ballot builds for the upcoming special election?
To whom are these attacks being attributed? Could this be an insider attack? Has the FBI identified any suspects or persons of interest?
Has the FBI examined removable media for the possibility of implanted malware?
Has the FBI examined the hash or verification program for tampering?
What mitigations are planned for the near- and long-term?

In any state an attack on a vendor providing software and system support with such far-reaching responsibilities would be devastating. This situation is especially fragile, because of the reliance on DRE voting machines that do not provide an independent paper record of verified voter intent. KSU has instead sought to verify the validity of the software on the voting machines by running a hash program on all machines before and after elections in an effort to confirm that the software has not been altered. However, if KSU’s election programming were compromised, it is also possible that the verification program could have been modified to affirm that the software is correct, even if it were not. This is a risk of using software to check the correctness of software.

Of course all Georgia elections are important. This month and next include special elections as well. If these upcoming elections are to be run on DREs and e-pollbooks that are maintained and programmed by KSU while the KSU Center for Election Systems is itself the subject of an ongoing criminal investigation, it can raise deep concerns. And today’s cyber risk climate is not likely to improve any time soon.

We urge you to provide Georgia’s citizens with information they need to confirm before going to vote that their name will appear correctly on the voter rolls, as well as back-up printed voter lists in case anomalies appear. Most importantly, we urge you to act with all haste to move Georgia to a system of voter-verified paper ballots and to conduct post-election manual audits of election results going forward to provide integrity and transparency to all of Georgia’s elections. We would be strongly supportive of such efforts and would be willing to help in any way we can.

Sincerely,

Dr. Andrew W. Appel
Eugene Higgins Professor of Computer Science,
Princeton University

Signed by many more equally prestigious people.

https://www.verifiedvoting.org/verified-voting-letter-to-georgia-secretary-of-state-brian-kemp/

A point that the conspiracy theorists seem to stay away from.

If this election was indeed stolen by means of vote changing, then we're in really, really, deep shit......because it means the Republicans weren't the only ones in on it. It means Clinton, Obama, Sanders, Warren, and all of the other Democratic officials that are saying there's no evidence of vote changing are in on it too. It would mean that our elections are as scripted as a WWE wrestling match, and we're all marks.

...but let's just say: he was not always helpful.

Not sure why PBO would capitulate to Yertle unless it to help the rest of the party? I most certainly would like to know
===

US Officials Go Public on McConnell’s Threat To Obama If He Exposed Russia Before Election

Even above robbing the treasury.

Cambridge Analytical-vote rigging/counting
Banning & Locking up protestors
Aggressive increase in Russia bots & Media ownership to suppress our voice.

They're just tying up the loose ends at this point. The areas where we may have a chance to vote them out.

If they are not stopped by 2018, our election will be like Russia.

Look at Russia govt under Putin.
That is what is being created in America, as we speak.

We will be the mirror of Russia if they have their way.

Thats what is happening while we are watching the big distraction & his tweets.

are watching the foundations for a dictatorship being laid in the US. The system is being worked for the installation of a one-party rule by cheating, twisting, manipulation and propaganda. I doubt the founders of the US ever considered the high-tech tactics of today and IMO there is little protection, and psyops runs amok. Americans have never encountered these tactics, and hence many fall for everything being naive and gullible. You are quite correct IMO, if not checked, the US will be a mirror of Russia and Trump wants to be the strongman.

I still maintain hacking the actual voting machines to a meaningful degree was logistically impossible. 10s of thousands of them all requiring physical access, it just isn't remotely believable

Hacking the DNC and spreading fake news. Absolutely. Voting machines? Not so much

who have worked with computers you don't need to be there physically

I know the most common machine in PA are old Elect-Ronic machines from the 80s. They predate the internet.

Oh. Okay then.

No, it wouldn't require tens of thousands having access either, but nice try moving the goal post. No dice.

1) Tabulators (not voting machines) in Wisconsin were definitely switching 5% of Hillary votes to Trump. Multiple sources for this.

2) Sequoia and ES&S machines in twenty-five states were using patches coded by a Russian subcontractor. Tell me again how this is 'impossible' because of lack of access. Plus, no hand recounts permitted. By Trump-supporting judges. Hmmmm. The only recounts allowed were recounts of the tabulated totals. Hmmmmm.

3) Everywhere these machines were used, Trump beat the exit polls and the media polls by 5-8%. Everywhere they were not used, like in California, the exit polls and media polls matched perfectly. Hmmmm.

Nothing to see here. Move along.

Because I'm pretty sure it was debunked once the statistics were reviewed.

Here is Nate Silver's rebuttal

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/demographics-not-hacking-explain-the-election-results/

And here is another roundup on analysis on this topic

http://electionupdates.caltech.edu/2016/11/24/some-thoughts-about-the-reports-of-supposed-evidence-of-election-irregularities-in-mi-pa-and-wi/

Neither of your links addresses the tabulators. In fact, the second link disingenuously excludes this altogether.

From the 538 link --

It’s possible nonetheless that the election was hacked, in the sense that anything is possible. (And the best hackers are experts in erasing their tracks.) Maybe hackers knew which control variables we’d look at and manipulated the vote in a way that it would look like it was caused by race, education and population driving different voting preferences. Maybe hackers didn’t manipulate the share of votes in individual counties, but rather the turnout, increasing the number of votes in counties likely to favor one candidate or another. Maybe some irregularities at the county level in early Wisconsin vote-counting are signs of wider problems. Maybe we’d find something if we dug down to the precinct level, or if we looked at other states with mixed voting systems.

Still 'junk'?

I would like if code for some of the voting machines would be reviewed to set people's minds at ease.

Why do I still doubt vote totals were manipulated?

The machines still had no internet connections.

Many different kinds/brands used.

Statistics reviews by Silver and others pan out.

Overall just too many points of attack needed to do it, and too many voting methods to account for to not leave huge red flags for Silver and other professional statisticians to find.

That and Russia, China, and others try hacking everyone. Work IT for a corporation, it's non-stop port scans, intrusion efforts, and phishing emails originating from these countries. The report doesn't detail anything that seems much beyond the shit corporate IT sees all the time.

Don't take this the wrong way, I do think Russia influenced the election overall and i do want huge fucking sanctions against Russia for the shit they did pull (bots, fake news, and the DNC hacks).

I still disagree. Trump-favoring tabulators, 'software patches' coded by Russian contractors on machines in 25 states, Republicans with motive and control of the infrastructure --

Still, Crosscheck probably was more than enough to destroy the process. All of this should be peak national security after this. We'll be paying off the consequences for generations if we survive.

some very good SOS who have done excellent work.
Also check which states use Interstate Crosscheck. OR rejected it due to it providing unreliable data. You can practically match across the board the states using Crosscheck with the ones that went for T.

For example, I can cite the lack of statistical differences between counties in Wisconsin that hand recounted and those that machine recounted.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/dane-county-completes-presidential-election-recount-with-no-major-discrepancies/article_1d4c73a5-295e-591d-b945-344150125463.html

“No major discrepancies have been discovered,” McDonell said. “The election equipment and procedures have been (found)to be extremely secure and accurate.”

The state’s second-largest county, Dane was the largest to conduct a hand recount.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/govt-and-politics/completed-wisconsin-recount-widens-donald-trump-s-lead-by-votes/article_3f61c6ac-5b18-5c27-bf38-e537146bbcdd.html

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/govt-and-politics/election-matters/wisconsin-recount-reveals-small-change-in-vote-count-some-problems/article_545e11e2-16fe-5283-99ad-e6d87a893a3b.html

"We found no evidence of any hack, in terms of our computer infrastructure system," Thomsen said.

See, that's the difference. I can cite actual evidence from people who are actually involved in the system. You cite "multiple sources", but can't be bothered to actually provide them.

There is zero evidence of vote hacking. None. It's embarrassing that this nonsense is allowed. How is it any different than Republicans claiming in person voter fraud is a significant thing when there is no evidence for it? Facts matter.

'There is zero evidence of vote hacking. None. It's embarrassing that this nonsense is allowed.'

Okay, then.

The only "fact" that matters is the election was stolen, trump cheated with help from the Russians.
Hillary won the popular vote and she also won WI, MI, and PA.
Just because a rigged recount, in a state run by a republican governor who is a world class expert on rigging an election, showed that recounting rigged votes gives the same result!!
The votes were changed! That's how the repukes steal elections, they CHANGE votes the votes they cannot suppress.

I worked the polls in a county that went to Obama in the last election, but went Trump in 2016.
I worked alongside Republicans, Democrats, and also and Independent. There is no possible way that votes got switched.

I then became an observer during our HAND recount, and the only errors found in the end, favored Trump by a few votes.

Crosscheck also didn't effect the vote here because Wisconsin has same day registration, so even if your name had been removed you could register again at the polls and vote immediately.

This is my personal observations only, but I am 100% convinced that my voting district didn't get hacked on Election Day, and the recount I observed was beyond reproach.

I have seen this report as well. I have not seen anything recently.

I agree that individual machines might be hard to hack, but the records from all machines go to a central source to be totaled. What is to prevent a hacker from changing the computer program to count say 103% of votes from Republican precincts and 98% of votes from Democratic precincts? The totals would not be drastically different, but Trump won by very small margins. I'm not a programmer, but I'd really like someone who is to explain whether and how this scenario could happen.

My other wish is that some billionaires get together and fund a new voting system that would prevent any hacking or breakdown of machines that prevent people from voting--before the 2020 election!

Some work counting votes, some work with software for voting machines.

Some are politicians and some are talk show hosts.

But the idea that russian agents who have been planted here for SEVENTY YEARS couldnt be in place to flip votes in crucial places after getting their DREAM candidate, is absurd.

To what extent they did it, we wont know, THAT they did it, is guaranteed.

Generations of them, two at least.

This is the reality, accepting it is the first step.

I would assume at least some would be receiving some sort of compensation from the Russian state.

This is America. Our government can't keep a secret to save its life.

And you expect the Russians; a government with a fraction of the financial resources ours has, recruiting from the same group of people, to incentivize and maintain thousands of agents, spread out all over he country, doing illegal shit, and not a single one of them has been caught.

One of those people would be on tv, spouting off about how he hoodwinked all these people, and he'd have a book deal. Russia isn't paying them millions, that detail would be caught up by other agencies. If 10,000 new millionaires showed up tomorrow, with no believable explanation about how they came into that money, the news, the IRS, and the FBI would be having a collective freak out.

And i don't believe you couldn't recruit the kinds of people required (with the technical skills and lack of moral conscience) for this type of operation, with just a thousand or a few thousand dollars.

And not alone in recent history. Up until the final months of WW2 the majority of Germans didn't know about the death camps.
Today's republicans and trump supporters are no different than Germans in 1944, most are blind of the evil in their own homes, a significant minority are responsible and must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of our laws, in fact I suspect many tRump supporters will be taken care of by extra legal methods. They will suicide by cop or self immolate in a turner diaries inspired fantasy of their self importance.
The silver lining in this nightmare is we will be the new peace movement.

And TV talking heads telling us what to do and what to think 24/7.

I will reiterate, this kind of conspiracy is just not possible. I'm with President Obama on this one.

when they make shit up.

Thanks NBC and Meager Kelly

and are too quick to dismiss any hint of fraud. GOP screams fraud every time a Dem wins, and even when they don't, and because they have no credibility, we dismiss them. Then, they actually do hack elections.

rule through whatever means they can, as they capture governorships, congress and the presidency. IMO to a casual observer it would certainly appear there is a coup as time drips by and leaks occur. Americans aren't used to this, thus many fall for the psyops and propaganda, being they are naive and gullible.

voting machines so they had physical access to tamper with vote tallies.

when the only thing keeping them from prosecution for cheating is their continued cheating, i expect them to cheat every time

Why stop?

THis is so unbelievable that I just cant...

And casting multiple votes either through mail in ballots or in person in disguise? Would this be plausible?

But if you have evidence, I'm sure Donald Trump would love to know.

Certain they have, how can anyone be truly trusted?

There's also zero evidence something like that happened.

Hacking refers to stealing (and releasing) DNC emails.

question is if cia or whomever finds proof would they ever tell us. what would we do to get back at russia.

Sometimes I feel like I'm losing my mind reading all the criticism of Hillary's campaign and why she lost. She lost because they fucking cheated and STOLE it from her.

...and of course, it's YOUR responsibility to prove that it DIDN'T happen...

Some here need to completely externalize the loss to maintain an absolute belief in the Russian bogeyman.

I'm in PA, and I can't prove anything, but I know in my bones that something shady went on. Same with MI and WI. There is material online about the recounts if anyone is interested.

I follow @mikefarb1 #unhackthevote on Twitter and his reporting is compelling. Here's a couple of more sources:

Link to tweet

Heed your own advice. If you can't prove anything than you have nothing. Reality doesn't operate on hunches.

Goodbye.

trump is Putin's puppet

We should have flat out refused to let a Republican owned company make voting machines with propitiatory code and design no one could see because of "corporate secrets" bullshit. We need to go back to the old machines and not let the inpatient press or rethugs or supreme court decide who won...ever again. All hands and eyes must be watching ever diligent to assholes trying to sway the election and cheat. Since that is the only way republicans win besides voter apathy gerrymandering and outright lies.

Without revealing too much about myself on here than I already have. I will say this, I am a computer nerd that has dabbled in security a lot and from what I have gathered about the Russia thing, they got us good. When the Russians attack American infrastructure they are careful about how they carry out attacks (unlike the Chinese who just fire away and don't even bother hiding their intentions and attack methods). The Russians have been practicing for the Big Game aka interfering with the US election for a long time. The Russians honed their skills by interfering in elections in smaller countries.

My advice to my fellow DU members is this, invest in a VPN, use encrypted email services, be careful what you say in front of any "smart device", and most importantly when traveling backup your phone to an external hard drive before you travel, wipe your phone so if you're forced to unlock it they get nothing. I could go on but this isn't the proper group for it.

the net.

Just like dummy donnie said.

and I have been looking for this specifically.

I assume that by "hacked" Putin means what the media means, which his that they hacked the DNC emails.

If we can show otherwise that is very significant. Perhaps Putin actually did mean otherwise but that would still only be indirect evidence.

Does anyone know if the computer scientists have been able to do anything regarding this question? I personally believe that their was a high probability of direct interference. Either at the precinct level or at the Board of Canvassers level. I have been seeking some evidence of this specifically for 2016.

Fox News would be proud.

we need to consider the 2016 election scientifically and carefully. We need to learn for real what happened. Not what we hope or wish happened.

And nobody has been able to explain to me how it could have been.

Here is why. These electronic machines don't connect to the internet at all. There is one model that has an optional ability to have a cellular modem that I found, but even on those unless the local government has that feature turned on and it paying for service for each one it's not connected at all. And it appears to be old and 2g so most places it couldn't even be used.

That means that in order to hack the machines you need to gain physical access to the machines in every county, in every precinct you want to change totals in and have the person gaining physical access to them gain access long enough to make the changes. Some could have been changed by uploading new firmware and that would require removing the machine from storage, powering it up, powering up a laptop, putting the machine in a upgrade setting, uploading new firmware, testing the machine, powering it back down and putting it back in storage then repeating for every machine. Others can't be upgraded like that and would require they be taken out of storage, physically opened up, the existing firmware chip removed, a new chip put in, the machine put back together, the machine powered up for testing, powered down, packed back up and put into storage.

And those steps must be done for every machine.

So let's figure you have to remove the machine from its locked storage unpack it, boot it up, boot your laptop and fire up the software to update, actually run an update on the machine, run tests to make sure it went right, power it back down, pack it back up and put it back in locked storage. At least a 30 minute task per unit. My rural county has around 150-200 machines.

That's a risky operation to do in one county.

Now, you can't make the hack swing votes on one machine more than a certain percent or it's obvious, so to swing the election requires a lot of machines in a state be hacked like this.

So you need to repeat the above steps in a lot of counties in every state you want to influence.

That would require first a large number of very skilled agents, and second a lot of luck. Breaking into hundreds of county offices and doing time consuming software or hardware updates on thousands of voting machines without anyone getting caught or any sign it happened would be almost impossible. It would be such a huge scale operation that someone somewhere would have detected something amiss.

The only other ways would be to somehow intercept vote totals sent from counties to state tabulators or change the computers used at the state levels, but that would be easily detected. The states all publish results by county and by precinct and county officials would quickly note that what was listed by the state wasnt what they sent. Plus at every step in that you have officials from both parties watching so if what a county told the state wasn't what was reported by the state, or if the total the county gave didn't match the totals for the precincts, they would flag that in real time.

Then you have the post election audits that every state does on top of that.

Since I posted this at first I have learned that just prior to an election the boards of elections pull all the machines out and test them to ensure they are working right, at least in the 3 states I've talked to people. That includes running them with the exact same configuration as the election will be, date set to Election Day, where they then check the results given against the votes they know they cast in the test to see if anything is amiss. So that is another safeguard against hacks.


Based on the above, I don't think it was actually hacked. And I find it telling that people who insist it was can't tell me how it would have been done, they are just sure it was.

And I think resting the blame for our loss on conspiracy theories like this harms our cause, because it allows an easy out to avoid introspection and getting to the root causes of defeat. Because if you keep blaming the boogeyman who you can't even explain how he did it for your loss you never can change anything.

You can't win bigger when the game is rigged to insure one party wins. The hacks (algorithms) are written IMO to insure that even if to get 1 million more folks to the polls. The hacks will provide 1 million PLUS enough within the margin of errors to overcome your new 1 million.

The advent of computers have given them the power to steal elections at lightening speed by a little here a little there. Focused on winning via the electoral college. Not every machine in the country needs to be "hacked". Just key machines in key locations in key states. Combined with voter suppression programs. these programs can win a state. Wisconsin for example.

Again IMO the 2000 hanging chad election was the beginning of the overtaking of elections on a national and now apparently international scale. Without the introduction of remotely accessible computers this could never have happen.

We have allowed the computers to hack elections, to purge voter rolls, to establish gerrymander districts. With each step in those directions we have made it easier to consolidate power in one group. One group that has no intentions of allowing the clocks to be turned back.

There are so many competing opinions here, some sound like CT and probably are, some sound like CT and probably are not. Some are based on facts but are misunderstood and some are not misunderstood. When the facts and theory get muddled, read history. Someone said that history repeats itself. Timothy Snyder professor of history at Yale says, "history does not repeat itself, but it makes a great road map". That applies here.
I have no logical reason to think Russians have infiltrated the US. It doesn’t set with my sensitivities based on my expectations of my country. But look at WWII. Such did happen to Scandinavia by the Germans and it worked for Hitler. Do you think FDR rounded up the Japanese in the US -->>Wronfully--<< just to be mean? No. It happened because Germans had been settling families in Scandinavian countries for years before the war and became citizens. Then when Hitler decided to attack, these Finish and Norwegian citizens led the bombers in with lights, and took up arms on Hitler's commmand. Whole nations were caught off guard.. including the US and it worked, whole nations fell. The same happened in GB but they were lucky to have survived it as a nation.
The US overreacted and allowed terrible acts to happen here out of fear... but not because of lack of evidence that such warfare happens.
We have a conundrum here... we must make decisions that protect us but not decisions that lead to avoidable mistakes.

I would add only 'read science fiction' -- cyberwarfare is going to change the human species more than any other techno-leap including fire. But the ideologies behind the bots are three million years old, and still doing the same schemy dreaming.