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egbertowillies

(4,058 posts)
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 08:36 PM Jun 2017

Did Hillary Clinton prove sexism worse than racism in America?

Many want Hillary Clinton to go away. They complain that she is not accepting sufficient responsibility for losing the election. As a Bernie Delegate who believes Hillary was not the best choice, I say categorically that sexism is the primary reason she lost and why even some Liberals want her to shut up.

https://egbertowillies.com/2017/06/03/hillary-clinton-sexism-racism/

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Did Hillary Clinton prove sexism worse than racism in America? (Original Post) egbertowillies Jun 2017 OP
This isn't the oppression olympics. Gravitycollapse Jun 2017 #1
I don't think we want her to 'shut up', we want her to recognize that after two tries.... Shandris Jun 2017 #2
Well, she did have the election won before the FBI rigged it for Trump. In any event, HRC is not StevieM Jun 2017 #5
Yah, so I'm not sure who is telling her to 'shut up'. Maybe it's something I just haven't seen yet. Shandris Jun 2017 #6
It's not sexist vs racism liberal N proud Jun 2017 #3
much of opposition to her had to do with race JI7 Jun 2017 #4
What she proved is a Primary win by millions of votes & a GE win of the people by millions also. mhw Jun 2017 #7
I put the loss Locutusofborg Jun 2017 #8
She's not running so you can relax. emulatorloo Jun 2017 #9
Then let's just drop the Russia investigation. jrthin Jun 2017 #10
Well that is so nice of you to let Russia and vote rigging off the hook. pennylane100 Jun 2017 #13
Yes there are an amazing amount of sexism and racism on the left. delisen Jun 2017 #11
No, this is not a contest, and we can address more than one issue at the same time. CBHagman Jun 2017 #12
Yes, it is strange how that type of behavior rears its ugly head, even in the democratic party. pennylane100 Jun 2017 #14
I agree. athena Jun 2017 #20
A couple recent interesting op-eds on the "HRC STFU" syndrome emulatorloo Jun 2017 #15
No. n/t DefenseLawyer Jun 2017 #16
It proved that sexism is still alive and well crazycatlady Jun 2017 #17
In a sense, yes rock Jun 2017 #18
I have to agree! bresue Jun 2017 #19
Many women are deeply sexist. athena Jun 2017 #22
My observation too...and cannot understand why they feel threatened by strong women. bresue Jun 2017 #24
Some of us have known this for a long time. athena Jun 2017 #21
wanting her to go away is driven by sexism too Hamlette Jun 2017 #23
yes. nt TheFrenchRazor Jun 2017 #25
redumbliCON voters get behind their horrid canidates, at all costs, and win elections. democratisphere Jun 2017 #26
She did not have to prove it. Sexism is world wide. It is tolerated as "natural". McCamy Taylor Jun 2017 #27
Many other examples Awsi Dooger Jun 2017 #28
The primary reason she lost PDittie Jun 2017 #29
sexism didn't help but that had no effect on the outcome as those who could not support the beachbum bob Jun 2017 #30
 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
2. I don't think we want her to 'shut up', we want her to recognize that after two tries....
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 08:39 PM
Jun 2017

...and a loss to a literal clown, maybe its time to recognize that it's not going to happen and that perhaps she should assume a different position in the party.

Of course, if all we can come up with to replace her is Zuckerberg, I may as well leave now. I can assure you, three years ahead of fact, that there is no action, no word, no narrative, and no chiding/shaming/mocking that can make me even remotely consider for one single solitary second casting a vote for Mark Zuckerberg. I know for a fact I am not alone in this.

StevieM

(10,500 posts)
5. Well, she did have the election won before the FBI rigged it for Trump. In any event, HRC is not
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 09:06 PM
Jun 2017

going to be running for president again. She just said so the other day.

I doubt Zuckerberg is running either. But in the bizarre event that he did, and he won the nomination, are you actually saying that you wouldn't vote for him to get rid of Trump?

 

Shandris

(3,447 posts)
6. Yah, so I'm not sure who is telling her to 'shut up'. Maybe it's something I just haven't seen yet.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 09:15 PM
Jun 2017

I don't have tv so I can't/don't see much of the stuff many here watch; that often is the very simple explanation.

As for Zuckerberg, yah, that's exactly what I'm saying. I wouldn't cast a vote for him to unseat Lucifer himself. I refuse to vote for evil, regardless of whether it pretends to be on my side. I hope that if enough people make this sentiment clear, he won't waste our time and money in a few years as it seems to me he's slowly gearing up to do. We need a good, solid and preferably clean (in temperament and scandals both) candidate.

liberal N proud

(60,334 posts)
3. It's not sexist vs racism
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 08:49 PM
Jun 2017

First of all she was determined the best candidate in the primary and the general election drawing the most votes.

That said, we could forget about the Russian connection but only for a moment because it played a huge role.

The anti Hillary rhetoric was years in the making, it stared when she was First Lady and the whole anti Clinton movement. Next add that the white male establishment had just endured 8 years of a black man in the White house and their noses were bent. They were not about to have another 4 years without a white man in the oval office.

Now pile on the Russian interference and you have a Butternut Bigot in office. BS would not have done any better, but I will add that there wouldn't have been a large block of voters who refused to vote because their candidate didn't win the primary. Sore looser who wouldn't vote were as much a part of her loss as anything.

JI7

(89,249 posts)
4. much of opposition to her had to do with race
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 08:55 PM
Jun 2017

Her support for mothers of innocent black people killed and her talKing of white privilege.

Her support for immigrants refugees and seeing huma abedin like a daughter.

 

mhw

(678 posts)
7. What she proved is a Primary win by millions of votes & a GE win of the people by millions also.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 09:17 PM
Jun 2017

Why She is not seated as our President & Trump is, you'll have to look further than "not accepting responsibility" because she has done so more than any other.

You'l have to look further than " Hillary was not the best choice" because clearly she has more creds than anyone in the race. EVER.

You'll have to look much further also than the words "Shut Up & Go Away."
That is insulting & demeaning to all this woman has conquered in her adult life.

You have really given no legitimate reason other than sexism.
And the same vocal groups who used that as a reason to elect Trump are also on a mission to find an array of empty excuses to continue their lack of accepting their own responsibility in buying the lies of campaign 2016.

To pull away the smear campaign against her, one that was a concerted effort by an international criminal organization, well funded, for the nonstop flat out lies to discredit & silence her mission & her voice..to peel back that effort is to reveal that Hillary Clinton had more creds, more honesty, more truth in her convictions that equal rights are human rights, than any candidate running from day 1 of the entire campaign.
She has walked her talk since her first days of activism.

It isn't Hillary Clinton that needs to "accept responsibility" for 2016, it is those who bought the lies, enjoyed repeating them & did all they could to sow division & unfounded hatred for the only person who by her millions more votes, was clearly the favorite of 2016.

Own it yourself.

Thank you.






Locutusofborg

(525 posts)
8. I put the loss
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 09:40 PM
Jun 2017

100% on Hillary Clinton and her campaign, as I would for any losing candidate. "All's fair in love, war and politics" and she lost. Now its time for someone else to defeat Trump in 2020.

emulatorloo

(44,124 posts)
9. She's not running so you can relax.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 09:45 PM
Jun 2017

Curious, are you one of those "no evidence of Russian interference" people?

pennylane100

(3,425 posts)
13. Well that is so nice of you to let Russia and vote rigging off the hook.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 10:07 PM
Jun 2017

Actually, all was not fair in the election that was stolen from her. I will never believe that Trump "won" the election. He betrayed his country to steal it and yet Hillary still gets the blame. I do not understand why she is so disliked. I was a very strong Bernie supporter but I knew we would be safe with her as our leader. So for all the Hillary haters out there, the real losers are all of us who have a psychopath now running the country.

delisen

(6,043 posts)
11. Yes there are an amazing amount of sexism and racism on the left.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 09:55 PM
Jun 2017

Election cycle 2016 has brought it all into focus.

If the rot in Trump regime brings down enough Republicans to destroy that party and it shrinks into a fringe party, there may well be a split in the Democratic Party with two major parties resulting.

I will be with the one that prioritizes human rights.



CBHagman

(16,984 posts)
12. No, this is not a contest, and we can address more than one issue at the same time.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 10:03 PM
Jun 2017

There are multiple reasons Hillary Clinton isn't president today, some of which have to do with sexism, and we'd do well to look at the big picture, but with openness and without this bizarre and misogynistic/ageist insistence that women, including Hillary Clinton, just shut up.

pennylane100

(3,425 posts)
14. Yes, it is strange how that type of behavior rears its ugly head, even in the democratic party.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 10:14 PM
Jun 2017

I remember when Robert Byrd was in the senate, I think he was there until he was over ninety years old. I did not remember any criticism of his failure to quit because he was too old. However, Ruth Ginsberg is not treated the same way. People were asking her to retire before the election so Obama could choose a replacement. How sexist is that.

athena

(4,187 posts)
20. I agree.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:01 PM
Jun 2017

You're the first person who has expressed what I've been thinking for a long time about the anger directed at Ginsberg. I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed this.

emulatorloo

(44,124 posts)
15. A couple recent interesting op-eds on the "HRC STFU" syndrome
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 10:36 PM
Jun 2017

https://www.damemagazine.com/2017/06/01/silencing-hillary-clinton-supporter

The Silencing of the Hillary Clinton Supporter

The media’s obsession with the white populist narrative serves two purposes: telling women who supported Hillary they don’t matter and exonerating itself from being culpable in her loss.

-------

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/06/03/why-do-they-hate-her-215220

Why Do They Hate Her?

Hillary Clinton is the most maligned presidential loser in history. What’s going on?
By JOSHUA ZEITZ June 03, 2017

crazycatlady

(4,492 posts)
17. It proved that sexism is still alive and well
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 10:50 PM
Jun 2017

The fact that people would vote for an unqualified sexual predator (who thinks pussy grabbing is a joke) over a qualified woman speaks volumes.

Unfortunately this isn't going away as people age off like some 'old traditions' do (ie the use of the N word). Ask any millennial if they know of a 'fuckboy'

rock

(13,218 posts)
18. In a sense, yes
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 10:56 PM
Jun 2017

Remember that in 2008 the liberals where glad, even tickled, to be voting for a black man (since most of the racists were republicans). And he won by something like 6 million votes. But for 2016, Hillary won by only (ha-ha) 3 million votes. In fact it was quite apparent how misogynistic the voters were during that time (and in this case they were just as rampant for the liberals as for the conservatives)!

bresue

(1,007 posts)
19. I have to agree!
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 10:59 PM
Jun 2017

I have heard comments that she

was a liar, a cheat, crooked, and clueless....everything that we know Dump is but yet he is now sitting in the white house.

And what really pisses me off...is when I hear older ladies make the comments, that a woman's place is not in the white house. And that a woman shouldn't be President because she would be too soft to declare war. But, maybe that is why Germany is doing so well...Merkel thinks before she squawks off. (No pun against you men out there that are pacifists.)

athena

(4,187 posts)
22. Many women are deeply sexist.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:09 PM
Jun 2017

They hate women who are intelligent and competent. They feel much more comfortable with the idea that women are inferior to men than with the idea that women might be the equals of men. I can't say I understand their thinking, since it doesn't make sense to me, but this is my observation.

athena

(4,187 posts)
21. Some of us have known this for a long time.
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:05 PM
Jun 2017

Racism is more acute, but sexism runs deeper. We will overcome racism sooner than we overcome sexism, if we ever overcome the latter.

Before Hillary declared her candidacy, I hoped she wouldn't run. I knew that her candidacy would result in the display of the worst forms of sexism in American society, and I was afraid she would lose as a result. After she declared, seeing how well she was doing, I allowed myself to get excited. In the end, my original hunch proved to have been correct. In retrospect, however, I'm glad she ran. Even with something as disgusting as sexism, it's good to bring it into the open. As long as it remains hidden, we have no hope of ever dealing with it.

Hamlette

(15,412 posts)
23. wanting her to go away is driven by sexism too
Sat Jun 3, 2017, 11:09 PM
Jun 2017

no one ever said Gore or Kerry should go away when they lost.

Most of the shit her opponents said, including Bernie supporters, would NOT be said about a male candidate. Listen to yourselves, now imagine you saying it about any male candidate. It's not as if Hillary was the only person to take money for speeches. My husband is a banking lawyer and made much money doing it. My attitude has always been "if you're going to charge someone $500 per hour it should be banks (in insurance companies). Thanks for putting my son through college!

She should be given kudos for ripping off the evil Goldman Sachs. Instead, you are critical.

Stop!

democratisphere

(17,235 posts)
26. redumbliCON voters get behind their horrid canidates, at all costs, and win elections.
Sun Jun 4, 2017, 03:19 AM
Jun 2017

Democrats offer superior candidates yet can't get behind the nominee of the Democratic Party. Democrats need to get smart or we will continue to lose elections. Racism and sexism will never change and it can be overcome by standing up for the political parties elected nominee.

McCamy Taylor

(19,240 posts)
27. She did not have to prove it. Sexism is world wide. It is tolerated as "natural".
Sun Jun 4, 2017, 03:51 AM
Jun 2017

Can't say that it is "worse" but it is definitely more common. And since a lot of Americans wants the Commander in Chief to ooze machismo, being a woman is not an asset when running for the job.

 

Awsi Dooger

(14,565 posts)
28. Many other examples
Sun Jun 4, 2017, 04:21 AM
Jun 2017

We failed in countless House races in 2006 despite favorable terrain. Many post-election reviews indicated that nominating women to contest those races was our downfall. Our percentage in key races was considerably worse with female nominees than males. The women were not able to take advantage of the anti-Iraq sentiment to the degree a male candidate would have.

None of this should be surprising. Long history. Women never were the focus of a Civil War yet they received the right to vote decades after blacks won that right. There were special interest fears toward how women would vote in comparison to men, and now that same fear is attached to how a woman would govern.

I know plenty of bigoted simplistic angry males from Las Vegas. They opposed Obama but they sensed that it wouldn't come across well if they offered their true feelings toward him. No such restraint applied to Hillary. I heard every name and claim imaginable. The fake news would not have attached to a male to the same degree it did to Hillary.

PDittie

(8,322 posts)
29. The primary reason she lost
Sun Jun 4, 2017, 06:23 AM
Jun 2017

is that she did not receive enough votes in the Electoral College.

C'mon, Eg. There's Comey, there's voter suppression in key states like Wisconsin, even low turnout among African Americans and probably a few other things before you can blame misogyny.

 

beachbum bob

(10,437 posts)
30. sexism didn't help but that had no effect on the outcome as those who could not support the
Sun Jun 4, 2017, 09:10 AM
Jun 2017

"lesser of 2 evils"....it was a ideology that place the betterment of all of America against personal ideology/litmus test. America lost, not just hillary and sexism did not prove to be the deciding point, it was delusional self-importance of ideology

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