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marmar

(77,081 posts)
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 08:00 AM Jul 2012

The Expense of Infrastructure in the US


http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/1025156/the_expense_of_infrastructure_in_the_us/


The Expense of Infrastructure in the US


For all the attention paid to the question of whether it’s wise for California to spend $68 billion on a high speed rail line from San Francisco to Los Angeles, a bigger question is being ignored. That question is how come it costs so much money? In contrast, China just completed a high speed rail line from Beijing to Shanghai, a comparable distance for about half the price. While it may seem reasonable for similar projects in China, a country with lower labor and environmental standards than the US, to be less expensive, the difference in the project isn’t just the price. Whereas the San Francisco to Los Angeles line is currently expected to be completed by 2028, the Chinese project took only three years. And it isn’t just China where these projects are cheaper.

In New York, construction is finally started on the long anticipated Second Avenue Subway, which has been planned since before the Great Depression. Right now, only a mile and a half of the line is being built at the cost of a billion dollars a stop.Should the entire planned line be built, running from the Financial District to 125th street, it is estimated to cost $22-24 billion.

Incidentally, this is the same cost as the Crossrail project currently being built in London. The only difference is that Crossrail, involves digging 26 miles of tunnels under London. In contrast, the Second Avenue Subway, which would run a mere 8.5 miles and sections of it have been completed for 40 years. (New York initially started construction in the 1970s before running out of money when the city almost went bankrupt in 1975).

Undertaking complex infrastructure projects is expensive but it shouldn’t be this expensive. There are good reasons why major transportation projects in the US should cost more than they do in China but there are no good reasons why tunneling in London provides a far better bargain than tunneling in New York.


By Ben Jacobs | Sourced from Washington Monthly
Posted at July 7, 2012, 11:32 am




6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The Expense of Infrastructure in the US (Original Post) marmar Jul 2012 OP
Replacing the Bay Bridge SoDesuKa Jul 2012 #1
It's not about labor......Britain's labor costs are no less than ours and their unions are stronger. marmar Jul 2012 #2
I lived on Second Avenue in the 70s. meaculpa2011 Jul 2012 #3
Solid rock and a maze of water, sewer, utility and... TreasonousBastard Jul 2012 #5
There are vast hidden costs here... TreasonousBastard Jul 2012 #4
+1 FarCenter Jul 2012 #6

SoDesuKa

(3,173 posts)
1. Replacing the Bay Bridge
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 08:15 AM
Jul 2012

After the Bay Bridge was damaged by an earthquake, they didn't rebuild it on the site. Instead they ordered a replacement from China! The section arrived by barge and was installed in place at a price that was much cheaper then using American labor. That's quite a comment, I'd say . . . .

marmar

(77,081 posts)
2. It's not about labor......Britain's labor costs are no less than ours and their unions are stronger.
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 08:30 AM
Jul 2012

It's about private companies digging their snouts deep into the public trough.


meaculpa2011

(918 posts)
3. I lived on Second Avenue in the 70s.
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 08:33 AM
Jul 2012

The Transit Authority cut the subway trench from about 60th Street to 72nd Street. After several years of noise, dust and congestion, they filled in the trench.

How much did the Chinese government have to pay for right of way between Beijing and Shanghai?

Don't know what the geology is in London, but most of what lies beneath the streets of Manhattan is solid rock.

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
5. Solid rock and a maze of water, sewer, utility and...
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 10:54 AM
Jul 2012

God-knows-what tunnels under there, with the occasional cemetery or other archaeological treasure trove.

I remember the second ave. subway, which, btw, has been planned since 1929. In the 70's the city bankruptcy killed it, but they're at it again.

Wanna bet funding dries up this time, too?

TreasonousBastard

(43,049 posts)
4. There are vast hidden costs here...
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 10:47 AM
Jul 2012

rights of way, land acquisitions, interminable lawsuits...

But, some costs are elusive. Years ago, Continental Airlines built a catering facility at their Newark hub. It was the identical size and design as the one in Houston, but cost 5 or 6 times as much. Nobody talked much about it, but everybody pretty much knew where the extra money went. Union County was pretty much under the absolute control of its Democratic party leader (who was also a state Senator and a partner in one of the largest law firms in the state) and Essex county was under the firm hand of the Mayor of Newark, also Democratic County leader and a state Senator. Joisey unions? We shared an office with one of them for a while and were fascinated that they had no shame (or fear) at all letting us listen in to some of their conversations.

It was just understood that any large project in New Jersey had its additional costs to be spread around to friends of the bosses. I'm not sure, but I think I remember the Mayor of Elizabeth owning the cement company that did a lot of work at Newark. He was always one step ahead of the sheriff until the sheriff was told to back off.

China just doesn't have our comfort level with corruption-- take a bribe over there and you might be executed after a very short trial. But, they're working it out.

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