General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHistorian: "inevitable that Trump will try to stage a coup and overthrow democracy"
American democracy is in crisis. The election of Donald Trump feels like a state of emergency made normal.
Trump has threatened violence against his political enemies. He has made clear he does not believe in the norms and traditions of American democracy unless they serve his interests. Trump and his advisers consider a free press to be enemies of his regime. Trump repeatedly lies and has a profoundly estranged relationship with empirical reality. He uses obvious and naked racism, nativism and bigotry to mobilize his voters and to disparage entire groups of people such as Latinos and Muslims.
Trump is threatening to eliminate an independent judiciary and wants to punish judges who dare to stand against his illegal and unconstitutional mandates. In what appears to be a violation of the emoluments clause of the Constitution, Trump is using the office of the presidency to enrich himself, his family and his inner circle by peddling influence and access to corporations, foreign countries and wealthy individuals. Trump and his representatives also believe that he is above the law and cannot be prosecuted for any crimes while in office.
What can the American people do to resist Donald Trump? What lessons can history teach about the rise of authoritarianism and fascism and how democracies collapse? Are there ways that individuals can fight back on a daily basis and in their own personal lives against the political and cultural forces that gave rise to Trumps movement? How long does American democracy have before the poison that Donald Trump and the Republican Party injected into the countrys body politic becomes lethal?
>In your book you discuss the idea that Donald Trump will have his own version of Hitlers Reichstag fire to expand his power and take full control of the government by declaring a state of emergency. How do you think that would play out?<
Let me make just two points. The first is that I think its pretty much inevitable that they will try. The reason I think that is that the conventional ways of being popular are not working out for them. The conventional way to be popular or to be legitimate in this country is to have some policies, to grow your popularity ratings and to win some elections. I dont think 2018 is looking very good for the Republicans along those conventional lines not just because the president is historically unpopular. Its also because neither the White House nor Congress have any policies which the majority of the public like.
http://www.salon.com/2017/05/01/historian-timothy-snyder-its-pretty-much-inevitable-that-trump-will-try-to-stage-a-coup-and-overthrow-democracy/
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Trump repeatedly lies and has a profoundly estranged relationship with empirical reality. He uses obvious and naked racism, nativism and bigotry to mobilize his voters and to disparage entire groups of people such as Latinos and Muslims.
Trump is threatening to eliminate an independent judiciary and wants to punish judges who dare to stand against his illegal and unconstitutional mandates. In what appears to be a violation of the emoluments clause of the Constitution, Trump is using the office of the presidency to enrich himself, his family and his inner circle by peddling influence and access to corporations, foreign countries and wealthy individuals. Trump and his representatives also believe that he is above the law and cannot be prosecuted for any crimes while in office.
RKP5637
(67,109 posts)is going on. The US is a "mark" for Trump and his gang, naive and gullible, susceptible to lies and distortions.
adigal
(7,581 posts)Probably a dozen things he has done that would have gotten anyone else impeached.
We ARE the boiling frogs.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)I do really believe his base will be applauding all the way
Achilleaze
(15,543 posts)lastlib
(23,238 posts)Get it on Amazon, get it wherever you can, but READ it - TODAY!
lunasun
(21,646 posts)mythology
(9,527 posts)Because it clearly doesn't mean what he thinks it does. People said the same things about the second Bush and about Obama. It didn't happen then either.
Kablooie
(18,634 posts)This is completely different and is based on a knowledge of how tyranny historically established itself. All the warnings are blatantly evident.
pnwmom
(108,978 posts)But he says we must be prepared to recognize the signs, and be prepared to fight.
Zorro
(15,740 posts)atreides1
(16,079 posts)pnwmom
(108,978 posts)increase the odds that he tries. If he can't control the government legally, he could very well attempt an illegal takeover.
Warpy
(111,266 posts)but he can't do it without the blind allegiance of the military.
njhoneybadger
(3,910 posts)yardwork
(61,622 posts)Then the terrorist attack of 9/11/2001 happened and most of the country rallied around the flag and the president. We invaded Afghanistan. Congress fell all over themselves passing laws eliminating civil rights.
Most of the country never stopped believing that the U.S. was in terrible danger. Kerry was defeated in 2004 mostly because the Republicans kept scaring people. Every time people calmed down, there'd be another "incident" and the terror warning would go back to red.
Bernardo de La Paz
(49,002 posts)DFW
(54,387 posts)Wes Clark, a Rhodes Scholar who knew as much about military matters as anyone I've ever met, was sure that Cheneybush would invade Iran because they were so desperate for some more serious combat that Iraq wasn't providing. I said I didn't think so because Republicans are basically cowards, and they don't initiate fights against people they think will shoot back (Iraq was a major miscalculation). I turned out to be right (luckily for us), probably the only argument I ever won against a Rhodes Scholar, but an important one nonetheless. They don't ALWAYS get it right.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)DFW
(54,387 posts)Haven't met up lately, but we used to meet up on a regular basis around New Year's.
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WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)DFW
(54,387 posts)But I think we're both part of the over-the-hill gang at this point.
lastlib
(23,238 posts)I would not be a bit surprised at tinyhands attempting an overthrow if we try to impeach him. He has too much of the savior complex in him. Remember "I ALONE can fix....."
FakeNoose
(32,639 posts)Every successful coup has the willing support of the military, and I don't believe Trump has that.
If he did in the beginning, he's lost it already.
I believe if Trump ever tried to start World War 3 (or launch a nuke) they'd shoot him first before they'd go along with it.
We need the Generals on our side, and remind them that Trump is a crazy man. At least as crazy as Hitler.
Remember that most of our military leaders come from middle class families just like us. Some of them might even be Democrats.
adigal
(7,581 posts)from happening.
DFW
(54,387 posts)They just do NOT attack anyone they think will shoot back. That requires guts and a willingness to sacrifice. Not in their nature.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)for the new tyranny, chanting aggressively, "USA! USA! USA!'
Sneederbunk
(14,291 posts)If he aimed at someone on 5th Avenue, he would miss.
trueblue2007
(17,219 posts)I think the person he was aiming back would RETALIATE.
If he tried to shoot me, I would defend my own life. Any rational person would do that.
mucifer
(23,545 posts)roamer65
(36,745 posts)Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)Hell , the Coup is Complete!!!!!!
L. Coyote
(51,129 posts)BarbD
(1,193 posts)Predicting the future is complicated mainly because Trump is crazy.
Takket
(21,573 posts)is that the message 45 gets from his base and those around him is that they WANT him to stage a coup and destroy our system of government. you know, the same fuckwads who spent 8 years telling us Obama violates the Consitution without once ever quoting which amendment or article he is in violation of.
Case in point. This piece of excrement.
Link to tweet
roamer65
(36,745 posts)I am, of course, referring to the twitter troll you quoted.
BigmanPigman
(51,594 posts)As I was making my sign for the March For Truth protest in San Diego yesterday I showed it to my neighbor who walked away saying, "It won't do any good". I was crestfallen. She had gone to the Women's March with me and forgot to go to the Climate March at the last minute and cancelled. I finished my sign saying to myself, "Fuck her. I am doing what I can and am proud of that and will continue as long as I can!" I am ill and at least I can call and write letters, etc to resist. I won't even be alive to see what happens a few years from now but at least I know that I am doing my best while here.
stage left
(2,962 posts)I'm doing the same.
CousinIT
(9,245 posts)Giving up means abandoning our country and humanity. FAR TOO MUCH at stake.
bora13
(860 posts)I told Althea I was feeling lost
Lacking in some direction
Althea told me upon scrutiny
That my back might need protection
I told Althea that treachery
Was tearing me limb from limb
Althea told me, now cool down boy
Settle back easy, Jim
You may be Saturday's child all grown
Moving with a pinch of grace
You may be a clown in the burying ground
Or just another pretty face
You may be the fate of Ophelia
Sleeping and perchance to dream
Honest to the point of recklessness
Self-centred to the extreme
Ain't nobody messin' with you but you
Your friends are getting most concerned
Loose with the truth, maybe its your fire
Baby I hope you don't get burned
When the smoke has cleared, she said
That's what she said to me
You're gonna want a bed to lay your head
And a little sympathy
There are things you can replace
And others you cannot
The time has come to weigh those things
This space is gettin' hot
You know this space is gettin' hot
I told Althea, I'm a roving sign
That I was born to be a bachelor
Althea told me, OK that's fine
So now I'm trying to catch her
Can't talk to you without talking to me
We're guilty of the same old things
Thinking a lot about less and less
And forgetting the love we bring
thanks to Robert Hunter and Jerry Garcia for years of Althea's ahead and behind.
Kablooie
(18,634 posts)He's not a sharp manipulator like Hitler was.
He's setting all the precedents for a takeover but since he's so dense he makes everything apparent.
Others in his menagerie are more dangerous but they have to put him out in front and where he bumbles everything.
Thank god Trump isn't an accomplished Machiavellian manipulator.
Charlotte Little
(658 posts)...that Trump can't pull a coup. It isn't him, anyway. It's the Mercers, Bannon, Pence, etc. They are the ones who would would more likely find a way to manufacture some kind of terror event - even if all they do is tear down our fire walls, which they've already done by gutting the State Department and alienating our allies. We have a major terrorist attack on American soil, you can absolutely bank on Martial Law. Then, it will be a matter of them simply making changes and justifying them for the "good" of the country.
Snyder is correct and every last one of us need to be paying attention as if our very freedom depends on it.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)I've purchased about 20 of these and given them away. I've mentioned it on DU a couple of times in the last month or so and few were interested. The authors background is stunning.
keithbvadu2
(36,812 posts)GOP has now cozied up to Russia - "Russia is our friend" say DT supporters.
Response to keithbvadu2 (Reply #31)
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heaven05
(18,124 posts)he doesn't understand a majority of American people to the point he makes this move you are warning about, and not without cause. I say. Yes the future to me looks very dark and uncertain, but I am going to pin the hope I still have on sane, progressive Rwers, if there are any left and the majority millions of patriotic Americans that voted in general society and the military for HRC just saying, HELL NO!!!!! simple as that and then get it on. Happened once before, can happen again.
Mountain Mule
(1,002 posts)njhoneybadger
(3,910 posts)If tRump thinks his life will be ruined by mueller investigation he will fight like a madman on acid.
adigal
(7,581 posts)I firmly believe we have more $$ power, if we stopped buying anything that is unnecessary, we would cripple big corporations and the CEOs would have Trump out in 24 hours. But that means no buying anything unnecessary. I doubt we could do it.
Squinch
(50,950 posts)buying into the "American dream." Buying little and reducing my dependence on corporate America as much as I can.
The consumer economy and America's admiration for the winners of that game have had a lot to do with getting us to where we are.
3catwoman3
(23,995 posts)...being dictator for life over being president. There is work and accountability involved in being president/
Oneironaut
(5,500 posts)I'm not saying it could never happen, but seriously...
Also, why would Trump need to stage a coup? He has a willing army of sycophants at his side.
OnDoutside
(19,956 posts)The press access even more. The solution to this is massive pressure on the Republicans, or enough Republicans, to do the honourable thing.
Quemado
(1,262 posts)has mentioned the phrase "coup in slow motion" several times on his show recently.
Response to CousinIT (Original post)
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