Wish I had more of it.

while we wait, probably right up to the 2018 elections, the Russians are working non-stop to perfect their techniques even more, ensuring yet another election going their way.

The ruskies ARE and have been working on NEW techniques to help this administration STAY in power.

Also, what the IC said about russian meddling probably being bigger than what was imagined is NO shock to me (About a month before the election night Nov. 8th, I had begun reading Malcolm Nance's book: The Plot To Hack America-great book which told of this ruskie hacking BEFORE it happened. Chapter 9, especially chilling). I've always thought something was 'wrong' from the very start after Hillary's loss. Hillary had solid leads going by almost EVERY person I was following up TO election night in the 3 states (PA, WI, MI.) she ended up losing by about 70,000 votes combined, and we've since found out that hundreds of THOUSANDS of Dem votes were either crosschecked or purged off of Dem voting rolls--and who in hell knows what happens in Ohio (Post-2004) and Florida (Post-2000) with Dem votes.

Crosscheck Removed 450K Voters in MI, 270 K in AZ and 590 K in NC!!

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/11/14/1599330/-Crosscheck-Removed-450K-Voters-in-MI-270-K-in-AZ-and-590-K-in-NC

Under THIS rotten, crooked, ruskie-influenced, tRumputin DOJ, the GOP IS going to be voter-suppressing Dems off the CHAIN in 2018--and with ruskie "assistance" of course. How we overcome this, I have no earthly clue, because even IF Dems and Indy's turn up and turn out in massive numbers to vote, we know the GOP will just ramp up their voter-crosschecking, voter-purging (New anti-Dem voter ID laws in WI.) and whatever russia will be doing to help out this next time around to take away "enough" numbers so the thuglicans win in certain states AGAIN. This beauguard-lead DOJ won't lift a finger to see that Dems aren't voter-suppressed, even if there IS credible evidence given to them. At time, my stomach gets queasy just thinking about HOW we're going to be able to vote in a fair way in 2018 & 2020.

receipts, they can not tamper with that. The results are not that quick but they are more tamper proof IMO

It would be admitting that Russia DID gain control of our election process, and it would cause the citizens to lose faith in our election system.

Some will know, and they will never say, except MAYBE on their death beds. But probably not.

We can make a $0.25 transaction (plus fees) at a checkout counter secure and able to pass an audit. But as a nation, we allow voting machines & tally systems that have been proven for a decade to be insecure. And I don't mean hackable; it should go without saying that they should be protected from outside hacks. I'm talking about systems that are trivial to manipulate at the machine level and then again at the county tally level with no audit trail, no record of anything other than the totals. And - go figure - the worst systems tend to be used in Red states, especially in the grossly redrawn Dem district(s).

We've had three general elections stolen from the Dems: Bush v Gore, Bush v Kerry, and now Trump v Clinton. All because of right wing nefarious circumstances.

when the election results were blacked out for 4 hours and then, voila! Bush won! Wisconsin was like that this year for Trump AND Ron Johnson.

The Supreme Court gave Bush the election.

So we then put the electronic voting in EVERYWHERE!!!

We should have gotten the Senate seat and the white house

that a total of 80,000 combined votes in key districts was enough to swing Pennsylvania, Michigan, Wisconsin and Ohio. Mysteriously, all of those districts, and those states, turned red for Trump. Coincidence? I think not.

until stopping the updates on his site and disappearing around 10 PM 11/8/16.

Til we made the leap to questioning the vote totals in some of these states...

... is mentioning in their red herring "didn't change voting results" bullcrap

exchange of information between Democrats.

I smell a rat.

Actually, let me rephrase that. I smell a BIGGER rat. I smell a whole football stadium full of bigger rats.

They're drinking Moscow Mules right now.

And kept DU down for some time. They knew what they were doing. Probably not kids in their basement.

There was method to their madness.

it was supposed to be.

bit the same cheat as flipping Ds to Rs. Knocking out tens of thousands of votes for president when all of the down-ticket races were marked for Ds is criminal.

The hackers and anyone who aided them need to go to prison for a long time. Anyone considering messing with democracy needs to face the prospect of losing their freedom for years, and to be monitored afterwards to make certain there is no payoff.

between decades of gerrymandering to suit the GOP, voter suppression, and Russian interference, the outcome of MORE THAN ONE Presidential election has been manipulated.

How are we to even the playing field with these evil, democracy hating bullies called "Republicans"?

Do we stoop to their level? Do we get meaner, and more combative to counter their election abuse? Surely, we can't keep doing what we're doing, or the result will be unthinkable. It already is!

Paper Ballots!

have paper ballots and be damned expediency!

hello, Vladimir.

Lol, why would our ally engage in cyber warfare against us??? Maybe it's just some 400lb hacker tricking our intelligence agencies

We haven't felt confident about our stupid election boxes or our system of voting since the 2000 election exposed the weaknesses. No surprise that the Russians stepped in to exploit a system that the Republicans were already tampering with.

I believe it's true that the election results were changed in key areas.

What is the remedy for this kind of election fraud?

Republicans just needed a mega-dose of manipulation and propaganda to get Trump close enough to get away with it. Not everyone is willing to stand idlely by and watch it happen though:

Reality Winner versus Reality Loser. Trump's Lies Revealed by Leak.

Nothing to see here, move along.

It was the punch card areas where votes were switched. In touch screen areas the % Dem vote increased over 2000, as expected. A lot of Republican areas got the new machines because they deleted fewer votes than punch cards, and statistically Dems did better than before in those areas, so no red flag there. Ohio punch card voting was designed to steal votes:

How Kerry Votes Were Switched To Bush Votes

At the end of the article it says there are authorities still pursuing the matter -- is there an ongoing investigation at this point?

we live in a democracy.

And no, I don't believe anything would come of it if it were proven. People in power, I believe, tend to think it is best if us plebeians keep on believing it "can't happen here".

I've seen this all happen before.

And no, nothing will be done. Sad.

Those polls you cite all dropped after the October Comey announcement. The national polls were as accurate as 2012. Did Obama steal that election? It's embarrassing that people continue to post utterly unsubstantiated nonsense because it fits their worldview.

Wisconsin counties that hand recounted didn't substantially differ from counties that did machine recounts. The differences were incorrectly filled out ballots.

Additionally if you had been reading the analysis of 538, they were saying that the election was closer than anybody thought. The media didn't delve deeply enough into the stats and history.

Saying don't ask me how the votes were hacked is a cop out. You're making an exceptional claim. It's incumbent upon you to provide supporting evidence of more than aspersions based on incorrect history and a poor understanding of statistics.

Thanks to 8 Yrs of Shrub, the 2008 election was not ever going to be close enough to steal. Obama won in a landslide.

Me thinks that they did try to steal 2012, but something got in their way. KKK Rove went on TV, screaming that the #'s were changing....that it was too close to call. Go back and watch his little demonstration. He knew something was supposed to happen, but it never did.

Who knows how many other races were impacted. A couple of Senate seats was enough to make a huge difference in 2012 & 2016. Not to mention, they did not want it to be so obvious, which is why they probably manipulate down ballot as well.

I certainly am critical of the campaign run by Clinton, but I find it as hard to believe that if she knew these states were so close that Drumpf had a chance, she would have made an effort to spend much more time there. Instead, towards the end it seemed she was even starting to focus on some over the top states, because the others were comfortably locked up.

So I guess either you believe Clinton did not have a clue what she was doing, and so blew off states like WI or PA, or those states were stolen from under her on election night.

Own campaign, and the DNC pretty much blew off Wi, part of Pa, and Michigan... Robbie Mook and Jennifer P were the ones who supposedly made the decision not to stir the waters. They didn't want to stir it up. Hillary was not happy about it. Micheal Moore and others said we were going to lose it. Many people called for help, and were frustrated. That doesn't mean that it wasn't tampered w or hacked.

In fact let me say if the election was not stolen, the DNC is not at fault. Try going after the GOP...the DNC is just fine. Let 16 go...now if the GOP stole the election, and I have always thought they might have...then it makes even less sense to attack Democrats and beginning posts with a 'I love Hillary but' doesn't change that. Let me say for the record...you will not get voters to turn out for a party that is relentlessly attacked by the right and the left. So unless one wants to create a permanent GOP majority...it needs to stop.

Thing. We need to go into at least every closely contested state vigorishly in the future, as well as try to keep the election from being stolen, which was NOT the DNCs fault. Walk and chew gum.
No one is focused on attacking Dems, but you keep bringing that up. In fact, that is one of the things we need to change, protecting our candidate better. She was slaughtered with exaggeration and lies by the meda and the Repubs

She was campaigning hard in Wisconsin and Michigan until Trump pulled his ads out of those states because he figured they were lost.

Hillary didn't take the warning seriously.
Or was that the perfect setup to manipulate the results and blame it on Hillary not campaigning in those states.

They didn't respond. We lost.

didn't cover all bases either though. In the future, we need to change this. However, given the ongoing state elections, there isn't much change.

show, and pointed it out to the DNC. That is trying to change the outcome, rather than putting blinders on.

campaign efforts in Wisconsin and Michigan because of HRC's big lead.

Election was going along just fine until all of a sudden states started flipping to Trump. Just enough for him to win the electoral vote by 77,000.

Yet Hillary won the vote by close to 3 million. Something rotten in the US.

Gore, Kerry and Hillary Clinton. And it will probably still go on and on and get worse and worse while the Repubs gather more and more power. - now with the Russians help.

Nothing to see there. Just a quirky coincidence.

I don't know about anything else. I have always suspected that somehow they stopped the recount because it would have proved Hillary received more votes.

is optical scan. With paper back up. The recount they did verified the election totals. Whatever you think, Michigan was not stolen. And if Michigan wasn't stolen, it pretty much indicates that other traditionally blue states (like Wisconsin) also weren't.

This wasn't so much a "throw the bums out" election as it was a "burn the whole damn thing down" election.

Why did a third of Detroit's voting machines register more ballots than actual voters?

There is something that doesn't pass the smell test. In Wayne County alone, 600 uncounted-for votes was actually narrowed to to 216. In such a close election, a statewide recount should have been allowed to proceed.

I do understand that Michigan is optical scan (as is Illinois).

it actually could be made to sound like Dem cheating. More ballots than voters in heavily Democratic Detroit? Think those were R ballots?

"The illusion of freedom will continue as long as it's profitable to continue the illusion. At the point where the illusion becomes too expensive to maintain, they will just take down the scenery, they will pull back the curtains, they will move the tables and chairs out of the way and you will see the brick wall at the back of the theater."

Frank Zappa

Are Hillary and Obama in on this, too? I mean if you and all the people in this embarrassing thread realize it, why haven't they spoken up?

First of all, Obama had no basis to say anything, he was not running.

And if Hillary knew, what proof would she have? The powers that be, and the media would help, would have destroyed her if she had made any such claims immediately after the election. Back then, the Russia story had not even begun to really take off.

The idea of an election being Stolen is RIDICULOUS! Why would they do something so criminal and change the direction of the country? Perish the thought. Repubs would NEVER EVER consider something so illegal or unethical.

<sarcasm off>

and it's a very looooong way from the certainty that you express in the OP:

"The intelligence assessment acknowledges that there is still a great deal of uncertainty over how successful the Russian operatives were and does not reach a conclusion about whether it affected the outcome of the election, in which Donald Trump’s victory over Hillary Clinton hinged on three closely contested states."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jun/05/russia-us-election-hack-voting-system-nsa-report

I'd explain why, but it won't change your mind.

We're stupid if we don't investigate this further.

The conspiracy was confirmed as real, it's the success of the conspiracy that's in question. Lots of people jumping to conclusions, but it's not like it isn't a possibility. Right now we don't know one way or another.

should be allowed to sue other States for failure to insure and demonstrate the integrity of their election methods.

Can states sue other states? I would say they have grounds and can show harm. And there is also equal protection that was opened up in the gore v bush decision...

been, in effect, disenfranchised?

Election systems are not very hard to hack - WHY ON EARTH WOULDN'T PUTIN DO IT??? Of course they did!

Because even though they used to be 100% accurate, that changed circa 2000.

But it has nothing to do with the electronic voting machines. Nothing at all. Just a coincidence.

Perhaps if they steal enough elections, they can use the recent history of exit polling as PROOF that they're wrong. You see, if you make something wrong time and again, people discount it.

If you're not cheating, you're not trying. And cheating does little good, unless you end up victorious.

Clinton was ahead in so many key states, everyone was saying that Drumpf had to basically pull a Royal Flush in order to get to the magic #.

Clinton did not just barely win the National Vote. She won it handily. Damn right it was fishy.

How did he get that lucky? He got every one. One surprise is different than six

And boy, then Russia will really suffer our wrath!

I'll believe that when I see it. Right now, they're in the oval office.

But - Sanctions!!

than them and they absolutely did NOT get more votes in those 4 states.

Of that I am certain.

When it will be proven, dont know. Doubt any of us will still be alive.

They KNEW some big bullshit was going down - and that these results were not credible. Michael Murphy - GOP strategist on MSNBC - he looked like he was going to faint - and said something like "this goes against all the facts...all I know about the business..." An MSNBC reported said he was in Trump Tower, and some campaign workers there looked more stunned than anyone... (Except, of course, for Flynn, Kushner...Trump himself and all the others that knew exactly what was happening - probably evil Bannon too.)

That would be their value. Wait and see if this doesn't prove to be the case!!

seeing it shift against what the polls were saying...I said to my friends as we were watching, "I've seen this before. Same thing that happened in 2004."

But I was not at all sure Hillary would win and had been saying for a number of months that I was really worried with all the hacking going on that they were going to steal the election again. If they could hack into the DNC, would they stop with that? And Even MSM was reporting on Russian hacks of voter reg databases in nearly half the states and I never believed it when they said it didn't affect the vote count. Come on. Does anyone really think if they had the capability to hack voter databases, they would stop with that?

Then there was Interstate Crosscheck....

That Russia realizes the way to destroy our country is to get republicans elected.

Actually, the whole world knows this. Except the republicans and those who vote for them, of course.

so said the orange shitgibbon

But... there's still too much money to be made by using hackable machines. "The Marketplace" can only make this problem worse. It's got to be government controlled, accountable through documentation, hand counted, paper ballots. It can be done.

Michigan would be the best shot where in Wayne County (Detroit) where 70,000 ballots were blank for President. Nobody compared that to the last election to see how reasonable it seemed nor did they even look at any of the ballots that rejected as blank. We know that count is wildly high so did they flip votes to blank? That would be easier to accomplish.

Pass the sniff test. But they could have flipped them to blank and claimed that the voters weren't willing to vote for either candidate. More believable.

There were not 70K undervotes in Wayne County. That total was state wide and many were write in votes for Bernie. Write ins are only counted in Michigan if a candidate pre registers as a write in and he did not. Totals below from Wayne County website

Wayne County (contains Detroit and surrounding suburbs)

Total # of ballots cast by voters on election day = 593,865

Votes

Clinton = 390,766
Trump = 159,502
Johnson = 14,501
Stein = 6740
Castle = 1271
Soltysik = 350
Write In = 4091 ( Note; Write Ins for Bernie counted as "no votes" since he was not registered as a write in candidate)

Total = 577,221

Total of under votes = 16,644 (No idea how many of these were write ins for Bernie )

When I look at the official web site for Wayne County. It shows
Clinton 519,444
Trump 228,993
Write-in 5,542
etc.
http://www.waynecounty.com/clerk/1609.htm

2008 Election
Obama 660,085
McCain 219,582
Write-in 1,422
Under votes 3,233