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kristopher

(29,798 posts)
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 04:31 PM Jul 2012

Data are or data is?

Do you know someone who has an agendum about what verb should be used with data?

Please be sure you skim the article before replying...

Data are or data is?
Is it singular or plural? It's a word we use every day here on the Datablog - but are we getting it completely wrong?

How do you say "data"?

I only ask because it's a contentious issue. Along with split infinitives, getting this one wrong offends and delights in equal measure. And, as we write about data every day, we're either getting it very wrong or very right.

The Wall Street Journal has...


http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/jul/16/data-plural-singular
40 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Data are or data is? (Original Post) kristopher Jul 2012 OP
"data" is the plural form of the singular "datum". lastlib Jul 2012 #1
Exactly. ProgressiveEconomist Jul 2012 #8
Do you think that is written in stone? kristopher Jul 2012 #11
the singular of "data" d_r Jul 2012 #18
Haha! Not quite a DUzY but very, very close! Thanks! - n/t coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #21
I always thought it was Brent.... whistler162 Jul 2012 #22
Nyuk nyuk nyuk... kristopher Jul 2012 #27
"phish." n/t Igel Jul 2012 #34
Well, this is a place where usage and convention are changing Latinate formality, such that coalition_unwilling Jul 2012 #20
If its the same as sheep dipsydoodle Jul 2012 #2
Data are what? matt819 Jul 2012 #3
Depends on whether you're on MineralMan Jul 2012 #4
Right down the line HillWilliam Jul 2012 #7
Yup. Same thing. MineralMan Jul 2012 #37
+1 thanks. kristopher Jul 2012 #25
"Is" Scootaloo Jul 2012 #5
Shoot... beat me to it. Fawke Em Jul 2012 #28
It can be used either way - collectively or as an individual parcel. HopeHoops Jul 2012 #6
Agreed. I am a former copy editor and always had a problem with that. RebelOne Jul 2012 #33
(Then) HopeHoops Jul 2012 #38
Yearning to be processed? Fumesucker Jul 2012 #9
"Is" sound correct. kentuck Jul 2012 #10
Data are, unless you're talking about the Star Trek character. 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #12
Perhaps that is changing... kristopher Jul 2012 #13
"datum" is the singular 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #14
"Under the current rules"? kristopher Jul 2012 #15
The dictionary in this case 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #16
Different dictionaries have different policies about what is "correct" kristopher Jul 2012 #17
Both oxford and webster state datum is the singular 4th law of robotics Jul 2012 #19
I know the definition of the word and how it is used. kristopher Jul 2012 #23
What is correct here johnnie Jul 2012 #24
It is a plural, but singular in construction. trackfan Jul 2012 #26
Data are. Blue_In_AK Jul 2012 #29
But we are speaking of English. kristopher Jul 2012 #30
True enough. Blue_In_AK Jul 2012 #36
It's a collective singular, therefor "is". Odin2005 Jul 2012 #31
I catch myself making a distinction. Igel Jul 2012 #35
not enough data. GeorgeGist Jul 2012 #32
There was a reason they used to teach Latin, grammar, and phonetics in school. Skidmore Jul 2012 #39
Data suggests..... H2O Man Jul 2012 #40
 

coalition_unwilling

(14,180 posts)
20. Well, this is a place where usage and convention are changing Latinate formality, such that
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 05:26 PM
Jul 2012

'data' can be either singular or plural depending on the context and whether the datum is a collective or countable entity.

Consider the following: "Are more children going to be hungry each night? The data is inconclusive" sounds to my ear as gramatically correct as "The data are inconclusive" (which sounds a little stilted to my ear).

matt819

(10,749 posts)
3. Data are what?
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 04:36 PM
Jul 2012

Check the New York Times Manual of Style. Mine is lost in the mists of time. My bet is that data are plural.

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
4. Depends on whether you're on
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 04:39 PM
Jul 2012

a descriptive or proscriptive track. Usage of "data" as a collective noun is growing apace. "Data is" is very, very commonly used. The descriptive grammarian will say that the language is evolving in that direction. The proscriptive grammarian will continue to declare it to be incorrect usage.

Guess who'll win. My money's on the evolution of that word into a collective singular noun.

Of course, in the UK, it still is "General Motors are." Here, we say, "General Motors is."

Expect to see "data is" more often than "data are" over time. The vast bulk of people do not even know that it is the plural of datum. The battle over that one is lost.

HillWilliam

(3,310 posts)
7. Right down the line
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 04:50 PM
Jul 2012

I grew up with "datum is/data are" so that's what I'm used to. There's just one Greek-through-Latin words Americans can't handle. "Agendas" makes my teeth itch as badly as "irregardless". "Agendum" is one item, "agenda" are items-plural, agendas is just-plain ignernt.

(insert wise-ass Mona Lisa smile here)

MineralMan

(146,317 posts)
37. Yup. Same thing.
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 07:51 PM
Jul 2012

We don't teach Latin and Greek any longer. Classical education is gone forever.

I've been forced to become a descriptive grammarian. My concession is that I don't use the words data and agenda very often. I don't need the arguments. Although, I had a great fondness of one of my copy editors years ago. We had the best discussions about such issues.

 

Scootaloo

(25,699 posts)
5. "Is"
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 04:46 PM
Jul 2012

As in, "Data is happy"


or "Data is laughing at your expense"


or as in "Data is the USS Enterprise's version of a crazy cat lady"


Or "Data is the one who smoked all your stash"

RebelOne

(30,947 posts)
33. Agreed. I am a former copy editor and always had a problem with that.
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 06:47 PM
Jul 2012

Than after much grammar research, I found it could be used as singular or plural.

kentuck

(111,103 posts)
10. "Is" sound correct.
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 04:55 PM
Jul 2012

The data is correct. Several different stacks of data are used to come to that conclusion.

 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
12. Data are, unless you're talking about the Star Trek character.
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 04:58 PM
Jul 2012

I made that mistake with my committee once. Once.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
13. Perhaps that is changing...
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 05:00 PM
Jul 2012

If the Guardian is willing to allow for some linguistic evolution, there might be hope for us colonials after all.

 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
14. "datum" is the singular
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 05:04 PM
Jul 2012

it may very well evolve to be different.

But under the current rules it's wrong.

Just like "alot" is a word in the popular media.

 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
16. The dictionary in this case
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 05:07 PM
Jul 2012

English is an evolving language. Sure.

But there are rules. Think back to English class. If you wrote "I is be doing something" would you get a good mark or a bad mark?

That kind of "grammar" is acceptable among some populations. But it is not generally considered correct by educated people.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
17. Different dictionaries have different policies about what is "correct"
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 05:20 PM
Jul 2012

For example, Oxford and Websters have very different policies about what is "correct". Oxford tends to be an arbiter while Websters tends to be an observer. And to make it even more interesting cultures and subcultures have differing views about the very idea of someone having "authority" to regulate language (look into how the Japanese go about it).

You accept academic regulators since you desire to be accepted in that subculture, but considering how trivial the number of academics are in relation to the rest of the population, why would you think that their view is "correct"?



 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
19. Both oxford and webster state datum is the singular
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 05:23 PM
Jul 2012

data the plural.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/datum

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/datum

I don't know dude, when both those dictionaries agree on the definition of a word . . . maybe just let it go.

kristopher

(29,798 posts)
23. I know the definition of the word and how it is used.
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 05:34 PM
Jul 2012

Perhaps you could have read the article in the OP and responded on the actual topic, which is how language evolves. They use data as the focal point of the discussion, but the point isn't about what the dictionary says.

I like linguistics; perhaps that is a failing, I don't know...

Blue_In_AK

(46,436 posts)
36. True enough.
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 07:26 PM
Jul 2012

I spent my entire life as a legal secretary so these little grammatical things are deeply engrained. I can recite the Gregg Reference Manual verbatim. (Not really, but its pages are well worn.)

Odin2005

(53,521 posts)
31. It's a collective singular, therefor "is".
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 06:35 PM
Jul 2012

People that treat it as a plural are pretentious twits and can go STFU.

Igel

(35,320 posts)
35. I catch myself making a distinction.
Sun Jul 8, 2012, 06:59 PM
Jul 2012

If I back into "data" looking at a lot of individual data, then I use the plural.

Then again, then I pronounce "data" as the plural of "datum." It doesn't rhyme with "day-tum', but "dat-tum". One datum, two data.

If I just pull the word "data" out of the air--"Let me see your data"--then I say "day-ta" and it's singular. I individuate the members of that collective using the word "number" or "points."

Ultimately, "data" will go the way of "agenda", though--a Latin plural borrowed into English as a singular. One thing slowing it down is competition from the word "datum." "Agendum" isn't common enough to matter. Then again, "agenda" is a normal noun, individuated with a plural: "This agenda, these agendas." I don't expect "this data, but look at those datas from the other teams" to be acceptable any time soon. I can't say it: I have to say "data sets."

Another drag on the shift are prescriptive rules used in formal speech. When I'm speaking more formally, then (the word) "data" is only plural.

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