...but I do agree. We need a new face, new image, new representation.

I do think Nancy is great and she's done an admirable job in circumstances both bad and good.

But our insistence on maintaining status quo at every step of the way is hurting us in a big way.

Look at Tom Dachile, Harry Reed now Chuck Schumer, what makes you think the next Democratic Leader will not come under the same attacks as this one. Leader Pelosi has done a remarkable job. Fr Time will take its course and there will be a new Leader and Whip as they are both in their upper 70's. For now, she is the Republican boogy woman and she is a very credible party leader for the democratic party

portray Republicans leaders like evil bastards that they are, even more than what they do to Nancy.

pubs attack them. Eventually even of us would end up in charge of the party, and then we'd be gone. Of course, this may not be about PUBS attacking our leaders at all...

As for showing up pub leaders as the evil bastards they are, they have been and the pubs don't care. Let's see how they feel as consequences finally come home to roost.

I mean shit, no matter what side we take the republicans will take the opposite. If we advocated against kicking puppies, the GOP would literally start kicking puppies. They are liars, bullies, and sociopaths. We need to start calling them out as such. Unfortunately, they own the narrative right now. Remember just a month ago when Greg Gianforte beat the shit out of a reporter and got reelected? The republicans were actively encouraging more violence against reporters! Now that that shooting happened in Arlington with the baseball practice? Guess what? They're suddenly against violence! It's like they live in opposite land!

Ignore them.

That's the message. It's not about status quo vs. change. Trump is the status quo. When are you all going to figure that out?

...I agree that whoever is in there will get tagged as "too liberal". No doubt about that.

But when that person (and I'm not just talking Pelosi I mean Reid and Schumer and a lot of the other Dems in charge of our party and process and system) has been at the helm for a long period of time, more so than liberal or conservative they embody Washington insiderism.

Yes, what Trump is actually DOING is the status quo but he's branded and marketed himself as an outsider and not beholden to a broken system.

Don't get me wrong all of this is not right or fair, or any of it. But when a ship is sinking arguing about what is fair or not fair or lamenting why people aren't smarter or better informed or any of it is not going to stop that ship from sinking.

So essential our options are to manage perceptions and optics and "marketing" (for lack of a better word) the Democratic party brand, or to increase the intelligence of the American public and make a majority of voters less ignorant.

And we don't seem to be doing EITHER of those things very well.

Because "It's not about reality it's about perception".

Do you even hear what you are saying?

Never mind. If that's what you took away from that, then I can see any discussion of this will be pointless.

Things are going great. We don't need to change anything. Everyone loves us, loves our leadership, loves how we do things, and we should dig in deeper with our current strategies and approaches because of that.

I don't know what I was thinking.

Victory is clearly right around the corner with this current approach and the impending GOP doom is going to happen any minute now.

My apologies.

they managed to lose the white house to an orange cheetoh.

the simple fact is pretty much all the democratic leadership needs to go. nancy just happens to be at the top of the list now that harry reid is gone.

We won apparently.

We are doing great, supposedly.

Our leadership is doing a bang up job.

I was wrong and clearly the only thing going wrong within our party is that too many aren't clapping and cheering loudly enough for the people that got us to this point.

Clearly "We're not Republicans!" is a winning strategy.

Clearly playing it safe is just paying dividends left and right.

Clearly "Let's keep the same people in charge for as long as we possibly can without ever changing hands" is endearing us to a huge chunk of the population.

Apparently.
Supposedly.

Imo, you've been overexposed to anti-Democrat propaganda. Lots of minds on the left, not just the right, are showing the effects of long-term immersion in anti-Democratic Party kool-aid. Many DUers still watch kool-aid pushing talking heads every day, seemingly addicted.

that is also being pushed everywhere from Breitbart to Russia Today to Washington Examiner and farther, pushed all over Fox and and conservative MSNBC and CNN programs.

Instead of assisting their strategy to gut our leadership, here's a far, far, far better one for Democrats:

Link to tweet

shes a target for the GOP
shes divisive among the dems
shes been leader since 2003.

its time for someone new

but if progressives want to make Nancy Pelosi the problem here, I won't join them in their nonsense.

We wouldn't have the ACA without her. And I'll be damned before taking lessons from someone with that rancid bigot Corbyn in their signature line.

Flame bait ...

She's tough, smart, & female, which scares the crap out of a lot of Repubs. Look at the mud they fling at any woman who dares to step out of line & think about something other than being hawt & wanting to please men!

For the GOP.

Did you notice how the GOP NEVER attacks Senator Sanders or Jill Stein or Gary Johnson or Evan McMullin?

None of them are Democratics so they are not fair game.

He's been a target for the GOP and Democrats.
He's definitely divisive among the Democrats.
He's been in Congress since 1991.

Of course this assertion is absolutely ridiculous, but hopefully it can help you see your own points.. in a different light.

Her job is to lead the Democratic congressional caucus. She knows how to get votes and how to count them. She knows who to persuade and how to do it.

Nancy Pelosi is very, very good at her job. That's why the Republicans do everything possible to damage her..

both by her constituents and by her colleagues. I see your list has no women on it. Same sort of garbage where certain 'progressives' say Hillary should just go away. Who gets to decide? 'Progressive voices' or actual elections.

find me another woman who has the equivalent standing nationally as the men i mentioned and ill gladly support them alongside the men I mentioned.

just pelosi has to go.

Just so happens all your preferred are men. If you think Castro would be better at keeping the house together than Rep. Pelosi....then you don't know much. And btw, who are you to say, you're just repeating the Con line which kills any credibility you might have.

If he had listed three women would you feel the same way about the OP?

And due respect, but the only sincerity I've seen from him is finger pointing and a sincere repetition of a GOP meme.

I'm tired of being accused of misogyny by people who know shit about me
The fact I don't name a woman on my list means shit. I don't give a rats ass whether the minority leader is a man or a woman. All I want is someone effective and Nancy isn't it

While insisting the one we have must go, it obviously wasn’t in your mind to make the list gender neutral. And obviously, by your words, this isn’t the first time you’ve encountered this observation, so instead of getting ticked at me why not give some thought as to why that is.

It's only here where every list has to have a black and a women or else your a misogynist or a rapist. In the real world not so much


After giving it some though I've realized that some people are just as sexist as they accuse men of being ......

Cause it doesn’t seem you’ve caught onto why people object to men only being the ones to determine what will be for the rest of us, like the current health care decisions being made.

tell those Democratic Reps just what to do and who to vote for as their leader. There. Problem solved.

I don't believe she had a whole lot to do with the version that actually passed, other than forcing it on the House.

That is an effective leader.

She is an effective leader.

Maybe the problem is the message and not the messenger?

The Democrats, and leaders like Pelosi, have become the Status Quo

That was always the 'job' of the conservatives

It won't end well

that she is the "Status Quo" which is a pile of crap.

Republicans have successfully painted Democrats as elitists and Democrats repeat the same meme, while it is Republicans who implement policy to buttress the "elite" - whoever they are because the meaning changes every fortnight it seems.

The stupidity of it all.

Honestly, the problem is far more complicated than just saying one person has to go. The real problem comes down to us being the minority.

JMHO. Have to be clear, NOT FREE, BUT FAIR!!!

that it doesn't matter who we get as leader GOP will demonize them

At least there's no Wasserman-Schultz to kick around this time!

Some people are so predictable (and boring)

A shame it's not an OP.

seriously, wtf?

i swear the baseless crap she gets almost rivals the baseless crap hillary got.

"shes (sic) become a target (right of wrong)", so, should we cater to the sexism of the right-wing?
or hell, should we just go ahead and be sexist ourselves?

she's capable, knowledgeable, intelligent, savvy, compassionate and from a safe district.

a house minority leader is not capable of doing much, especially when republicans are hyper-partisan and ignore us as long as they have a majority. but give here a decent majority and things will change. she's already proven herself as speaker and has more experience in that role than any of the men you list.

and has been pretty ineffectual as it.
passing the ACA was Obama not her.
shes been in office since 1987. (which as faras im concerned shoudl disqualify her anyway since in in gavor of term limits but thats another story)

Its time for new leadership

"and has been pretty ineffectual as it...."

What then is the precise and objective measure of effectiveness (and what makes that measure more or less valid than any other?), and does that measure apply consistently to all leadership positions in the house, recent past, present and recent future?

She corralled the resources, and under her leadership and direction, the House put the bill together.

She made the ACA happen when it came to nuts and bolts.

Or close to it. This clinging to power for power sake..it has to end. Not only does it increase the odds for corruption, the ones who pursue it and make a lifelong profession of it end up thinking THEIR advancement through the halls of power is what's of paramount importance. And not working for the people.

And does no one else consider that there has basically been a coup d'etat of the American government....and not one Dem of power stood up and sounded the alarm. Most of them didn't even notice.

No we need a clean sweep top to bottom of the professional politicians.

Nancy Pelosi started even earlier than Hillary Clinton, because her dad was Democratic Mayor of Baltimore and she learned the ropes as a child. She got into San Francisco politics while raising her own kids, ultimately helping to run the statewide Democratic operation. She was finally persuaded to become a candidate herself.

But boy howdy, the little woman has just been clinging to power for its own sake.

What exactly do you think our people do in Congress? You think our Dems aren't aware of what happened in November? And are you a San Franciscan who can work to unseat her or are you just complaining from the outside?

The knock on Nancy Pelosi is as gendered as the knock on Hillary Clinton, by the way. The repetition of Right Wing memes is every bit as obnoxious. The ignorance from some who claim to be on our side is astounding.

We don't have Debbie W-S to kick around any more. Hillary should just stfu and maintain a dignified silence.

The "they" I'm talking about are alleged Democrats, btw. How soon before Kamala Harris, already coming under attack by the Senate GOP, is found wanting by alleged Dems because "she's been demonized"? Elizabeth Warren is already a favorite target of the GOP, but worshipped by some on our side as being *so* much better than Hillary. That is, she is worshipped *at the moment*.

Why in hell is this, and why in hell are "they" out in force today at Democratic Underground? I have a few ideas, and I am not happy. At least a lot of people with sense are fighting back.

political office should not be a lifetime job.
she gets no pass just because she did well 10-20 years ago..

your only as good as how your doing now.

thats just the way it is

....of the voters who get off their asses and show up. I don't get a say in Nancy P's stay in office, because I am not a San Franciscan. I don't get to vote for someone in Idaho, either. I got to vote for Lois Capps, who did a great job, retired to be with her grandkids, and have now participated in electing Salud Carbajal to be her replacement. As long as enough people in our district are happy with him and as long as he keeps running, who the hell are you to tell us to arbitrarily dump him because you, who do not live here, feel the need for "new leadership" in the US Congress?

Go to work in your own district. But above all, go to work on the national issue of who gets to vote and how votes are counted. I know it's clean where I live, but it stinks to high heaven in a lot of other places. That's why we have Trump now.

...and on who you think is likely to do those things differently?

Ever. That is far from ineffectual.

ACA would have failed in fact she revived it...everyone thought it was done after the Mass. special election....she sacrificed her majority to do it also.

http://affordablehealthca.com/timeline-obamacare/

The sexists gave us President Trump because they simply couldn't handle the idea of being led by someone with a vagina. Now they're trying to take power away one of the best leaders the House has ever had because she happens to have a vagina, as well. Then, they turn around and attack those who object to this sexism of being sexist ourselves.

I've had enough of this. Anyone who posts here about how Nancy Pelosi is not an effective leader reveals one thing, and one thing only: how utterly clueless he is about politics and what goes on in the House.

You should educate yourself before giving into your impulse to attack women because they happen to be women and are by definition less exciting to you as leaders than men are. Here is a start:

Washington Post: Nancy Pelosi turns 75 today. She’s still the most effective leader in Congress.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/03/26/nancy-pelosi-turns-75-today-shes-still-the-most-effective-leader-in-congress

Washington Monthly: Nancy Pelosi Is the Most Effective Member of the Resistance
http://washingtonmonthly.com/2017/05/04/nancy-pelosi-is-the-most-effective-member-of-the-resistence/

The Atlantic: The Staying Power of Nancy Pelosi
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/the-staying-power-of-nancy-pelosi/440022/

Alternet: Nancy Pelosi: The Most Effective Speaker of the House in History
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/425315/nancy_pelosi%3A_the_most_effective_speaker_of_the_house_in_history

The Guardian: Nancy Pelosi: is this the most powerful woman in US history?
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/mar/26/nancy-pelosi-politician-speaker

...funny you think being a 'target for GOP attacks' is disqualifying, as if someone agreeable to them would be preferable.

Are you fucking kidding me?

Precisely.

...I don't give a damn about that. We can't let the Repubs determine our choices for us. I have mixed feelings about Pelosi, but in general, the more the Right squeals about her, the more it tells me she's doing something right...

the attack ads tying Ossoff to Pelosi would've just seemed silly and pointless. Of course the Democratic candidate supports the Democratic House Leader. What else would you expect?

But instead, we liberals constantly give ground. We stroke our beads, and say "tut-tut", and write blog posts about how some of the critics of Pelosi, Hillary, Bernie, etc. have some valid points.

It boggles my mind when anyone suggests otherwise.

If people want someone new to be the face of the party, that's a different issue. But as far as counting votes and maneuvering through the legislative process, she's the best in the business.

Republicans will demonize the next leader and the next one and the next one...........Every new leader will be mercilessly attacked and demonized by Republicans so that's a bad argument for dumping Pelosi or anybody else. I thought that Republicans had been planning to move on to using Elizabeth Warren as their next "Boogey-woman" but I guess that they are still fixated on Pelosi.

All they do is demonize us and piss us off. It's like they just exist to make the lives of liberals miserable. And they get some joy out of that hobby. We need to start kicking them in the ass when they bully us. It's the only way they'll learn.

I don't disagree with your general sentiment/goal but we need concrete action steps for what we need to do and/or what to tell Democrats in Congress, State Houses, etc. to do IMHO.

vote as some sort of weapon against the only party that can fight the Republicans...why the Democrats are somehow lacking...yeah lacking a stable voting base who understands the big picture...winning is always better...vote Democratic always.

I say it's time we start fighting back.

As I stated above in post #107, anyone who claims that Nancy Pelosi is not a good leader is simply revealing how utterly clueless they are about politics.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9233587

or carrying water for the lying GOP by demonizing them.

Repeating their talking points.

Sick of it too! Republicans back each other up all the time no matter what craziness is spilling forth from their mouths. Nobody is telling McConnell- with all his awfulness- that he's too old and to take a hike, probably because most GOPers know that he gets the job done at the end of the day (unfortunately). We need to start recognizing, protecting, maximizing, and enhancing our assets instead of tearing our own people down. We go to battle with who and what we have right now. Just bumping people off left and right just because makes no sense- and it certainly won't help us win in the end.

You beat me to it!

Nancy is probably the best speaker in history. She keeps the party together and keeps being elected to lead because every Democrat in the House knows it.

no matter how good you are, large numbers of people will still see you as incompetent. You can be the best Speaker of the House in history, and a bunch of know-it-all men who know zilch about politics will go around agreeing with each other about how the Speaker of the House doesn't know how to lead and needs to go.

DU sometimes makes me sick. If DUers are this sexist, there is no hope for the U.S. They gave us Trump, and they still haven't learned their lesson. A part of me hopes they get all the stupid, incompetent, and selfish men they deserve, until they get it through their heads that a penis is not what makes a person a competent leader. The worst part is that even then, they probably wouldn't learn and would go to their graves talking about how this female leader or that is incompetent. I guess it just makes them feel good to think they're automatically superior to half the population. There is no other explanation for such utter stupidity.

She is a great leader and has done wonderful work standing up to Trump.

Every congressional election is a local election. There is no way around that. The House keeps electing her to leadership, as well. How do you suggest she "goes away." We continually seem to misunderstand how people get elected. I have no more to say about Nancy Pelosi, since I live nowhere near her district. They elect her, and nothing I do will change that.

How's your own congressional district doing? Who represents you? That's what matters, not what you think of Nancy Pelosi.