... first.

Looks like with said demons are tangible enough to have to deal with

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2017/06/tom_perriello_can_succeed_with_black_voters_as_bernie_sanders_didn_t.html

Even more than Pelosi. One guess as to why that is....

And, in any case, if you're demanding that Pelosi be dumped because of her usefulness as a Republican cartoon, aren't you already pretty much admitting defeat?

But I would take exception with a bit of this. Pierce seems to be suggesting she's irreplaceable. Truth is, everyone's replaceable. Life would go on. The Democratic Party would not cease to exist. That said, I hope she is speaker again ASAP.

Now is the time we need to maximize the assets we have left, not blithely throw them away. We need to be smart about this, not stupid.

pukes will demonize whoever it is and their dimwitted followers will believe the propaganda.

If it's not Nancy Pelosi, it's someone else.

I suggest Nancy Pelosi get a PR person who is familiar with Republican gaslighting and defaming tactics and try to turn it around.

She and HRC are both Dems, why wouldn't she back another Dem? It's not reasonable to expect otherwise.

That isn't your decision to make.

How about all the politicians who endorsed Bernie. Should they go too? Or is backing the winning candidate now a crime?

Yes, I'm shouting!

Godsdamn they are fools, as Chaz Pierce says.

There are about a half dozen separate threads defending Pelosi in GD, and one (that I saw) calling for her replacement, with all of 9 recs. That seems more like a poorly received idea to me than it does a concerted effort at trolling. People can disagree and throw ideas out there still, can't they? Even if they're bad. Or is this the kind of "discussion" board where we all agree all the time?

Not amusing.

I'll be back later.

But what looked like an organized barrage

She has a book out doncha know with a message that's a version of BS's spiel

She is NOT ineffective.

and want removed from office, and even hidden from public view, are all women?

like Cory Booker. Or anyone who shows strong leadership and electability for 2018 and 2020.

I am more disturbed by the people on the left who are doing this than I am by repiggie or MSM criticism. I expect that kind of horseshit from them. I won't say more, or someone will alert.

Those of you who want to dump Pelosi because of republican pressure: Fuck Off.

The fact that they don't like her indicates she is effective. I expect them to take on Al Franken shortly too, as he would be a strong opponent against trump.

is just one of the shiny objects that the republicans like to vilify. If not her, like Charlie says, it will be anyone who replaces her. He is also right about Pelosi's ability as Speaker--she is very, very good (unlike the Munster lookalike). Since when do we listen to the republican spin anyways? Sheesh

fail and they have been trying to push the establishment leaders out.
Nancy Pelosi is a leader of that establishment, so they are willing to help the liars push her out.

no more wealthy California elitist labeling- red meat for the nutjobs. Notice how little women occupy leadership positions in the GOP?? He's newer, somewhat moderate and from the midwest and telegenic and well spoken

I think you took a wrong turn somewhere.

spotlight. I trust the judgement of women more than men and I'm from the military and manufacturing environments. The voters we are losing are those middle class, midwestern, middle age men- especially in the rust belt states that decide these elections. Blame hate radio and faux news/ A good 1/3 of union households are voting rethug which sickens me and would have my father and grandfather spinning in their graves. We need Ohio, etc back. The west coast is solidly ours thankfully

in a leadership position is from the district right next to mine. She is midwestern and from a rust belt area.

She was mentored by Durbin, and is someone I have known well for a long time. Her name is Cheri Bustos. Google her.

politics is about branding and marketing- and the old saying about perception being reality. Obama came out of virtually nowhere to the national scene and gave grumpy mccain and the shrilla from wasilla a good old fashioned butt whippin'

Or are we talking fake as all get out

Are you saying that because the GOP has demonized Californians, that no more should be in leadership? That's beyond belief. Has it escaped your notice that a new wave of up and coming leadership is coming feom California? And that *already* the GOP is trying to silence and demonize them?

I'll tell you this: the day I let the GOP determine who I back is the day I'll be kicking up daisies.

people are confusing my opinion of the west coast (I would live there tomorrow!!) with how it is portrayed by the trumptards in the rest of the country due to the rwnj propaganda machine. all I am saying is if we change leadership that Nancy Pelosi has been in the crosshairs a long time.

Hillary Clinton, be the reasons that we abandon our leadership is letting the GOP and the corporate media manipulate our party. Sometimes the damage is done though. Clinton basically stood over the grenade for 15 or so years. Maybe sometimes you need to thank them for their sacrifice and realize they took too effective a hit. Maybe not, I'm conflicted on that point. I'm not conflicted on whether or not they should be entirely vilified by us for at least a huge portion of their unpopularity being manufactured. This is one area where I do not agree with the general consensus at TYT, which conveniently forgets that fact when they talk about the unpopularity of people like Clinton. They shouldn't forget that, because it should be part of their argument. Why do Dems keep playing by the rules laid out for them by corporations who have their hands all over our political system, and coming back for more abuse, rather than calling out the game as rigged?

Those are some of the reasons I want a different direction than Clinton or Pelosi have presented us, but I"m okay with either of them adjusting to different expectations, assuming they can.

As suggested in the article, I wouldn't be surprised if should Pelosi get ousted, we got a conserva-dem as the response. Someone less liberal than Pelosi, just more folksy, and as some have suggested, male. Of course our job would be to demand that that not happen, but yeah, people clamoring for a change about "who not" rather than "who" are making a huge mistake.

says a lot about how effective she is, imo. And if we replaced her they'd vilify that person, too. It's all they've got.

A Democratic lawmaker who supported House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) during her last leadership challenge now says "you'd have to be an idiot" to believe Democrats can take the House back from Republicans with her leading the party.

Rep. Filemon Vela told Politico on Wednesday that Pelosi's leadership makes a Democratic majority in the lower chamber impossible.

“I think you’d have to be an idiot to think we could win the House with Pelosi at the top,” Vela said. The two-term Texas Democrat supported Pelosi over Rep. Tim Ryan (D-Ohio) during leadership elections at the end of last November.


Rep. Kathleen Rice (D-N.Y.) joined Vela's criticism of Pelosi.

"There comes a time when every leader has to say, 'For the good of the order and for the betterment of the party, it’s time for me to step aside.' And I wish that that would happen right now," Rice said. "This is not a personal thing. I want to get back in the majority."

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/338835-dem-lawmaker-youd-have-to-be-an-idiot-to-think-dems-can-win-house-with


I don't know if they started it but they're not helping.

Want their male economic message to reign supreme

We can't win with the facts and logic alone. We MUST appeal to the emotions of the average voter and that means hitting repukes where they live--right in their twisted minds!

If they want to demonize us, two can play that game, especially given the fact that they can't take what they dish out.
If they want to turn decorated war heroes into poltroons with their propaganda, we can turn captains of industry as cannibalistic savages with ours.
If they want to turn our first female Speaker of the House into a magical witch who can be in two places at once, we can turn their turtle-faced Senate Majority leader into a rabid spawn of Satan.
If they want to turn our first black President, who would have been a moderate Republican 30 years ago, into a Kenyan Islamic terrorist, we can turn a real estate hustler-turned-traitor "president" into a depraved serial child killer.
If they want to turn a level-headed, brilliant woman into a freakin' criminal, we can turn a son of a preacher-turned-Senator into a vicious wild animal.
If they want to target our voters, especially young people and minorities, for disenfranchisement with their voter suppression measures, we can target their voter base: conservative Christianists likewise.

Enough turning the other cheek and taking the high road when they have no sense of decency. AFAIC, the gloves are off and this is WAR!!!

We don't have an equivalent of Fox News, AM radio, the platform of right wing internet/social media. The right claims that that's the counterpoint to the "liberal" mainstream media, but the MSM actually has journalistic standards of fairness. CNN even bends over backwards to present false equivalence.

Last edited Wed Jun 21, 2017, 08:50 PM - Edit history (1)

I have no hate for Nancy Pelosi, but it's rebranding. After presenting the same face for 14 years, it's reasonable to change up. Tim Ryan presents really strongly on tv. I've seen him on the Bill Maher panel a couple times. As a younger, meat and potatoes Ohio guy, he'd be a significant image change. To fight through gerrymandering & voter suppression to take back the House, we can't afford any drags on perception.

Rightly or wrongly, Nancy Pelosi has been demonized in much the way Hillary was. She's had her day and it's been 6 1/2 years since we lost the House majority. Maybe keep her on in a leadership role, but it's hard not to acknowledge that some rebranding could help. Bill Clinton was a "new look" Democrat in 1992, so was Obama in 2008. It would be helpful to have a new look carrying our message forward for 2018. A lot of the people that we need to pick up have negative perceptions of Democrats as usual. Those perceptions may be incorrect, but we have to address the marketplace we live in.

She passed the most progressive agenda but the Repubs controlled the Senate during Obama's first term.


So if you can't vote her out what are you talking about?

No one here can make a list of the things she did to get kicked out of leadership.

I would not put my trust in people who have nothing to offer but "let's have a change" without any real ideas about what to change and what to change to.

Costa that Dems in the House do not want to replace Pelosi