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Kablooie

(18,634 posts)
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 11:44 AM Jul 2017

Can a president pardon someone before there is a trial and conviction?

The scenarios I'm reading suggest that Trump pardons everyone as soon as they are indicted.
If he could do that he could prevent any trial he doesn't like.
Even if there was a trial none of the guilty would have to tell the truth because they would be under no legal threat of perjury.

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Can a president pardon someone before there is a trial and conviction? (Original Post) Kablooie Jul 2017 OP
Gerald Ford did with Nixon Va Lefty Jul 2017 #1
Beat me to it jpak Jul 2017 #3
IIRC, Bush Sr and Casper Weinberger. GreatCaesarsGhost Jul 2017 #2
What is about Republicans and self dealing pardons exboyfil Jul 2017 #4
Yes, Ford did it for Nixon. The Velveteen Ocelot Jul 2017 #5
hard to say unblock Jul 2017 #15
Yes grantcart Jul 2017 #6
No, he can't pardon himself jberryhill Jul 2017 #10
Outside of impeachment, that has not been established. grantcart Jul 2017 #12
Gerald Ford says yes. Foamfollower Jul 2017 #7
Yes / No jberryhill Jul 2017 #8
I thought Carter offered the blanket pardon Brother Buzz Jul 2017 #13
It was of course Carter. Ford gave Nixon immunity. Voltaire2 Jul 2017 #19
Oh, yep... jberryhill Jul 2017 #20
So you can get out of jail free by dying and going to heaven. Kablooie Jul 2017 #23
yes but he can't pardon for matters of state law, only federal law. unblock Jul 2017 #9
Given the lawyer's connection to the money laundering case in NY rainbow4321 Jul 2017 #14
yes i have hopes for ny charges, maybe rico. though this is all prior to the campaign. unblock Jul 2017 #17
Prevezon was settled in federal court, not NY State Court Louis1895 Jul 2017 #18
Yeap. Ford, Bush & Carter all did. Xolodno Jul 2017 #11
I am sure Pence would pardon Trump... Louis1895 Jul 2017 #16
Yes. Caspar Weinberger was under indictment when Bush 41 pardoned him. Eugene Jul 2017 #21
Clinton pardoned Marc Rich. former9thward Jul 2017 #22
So Trump could pardon everyone before anything happens. Kablooie Jul 2017 #24

unblock

(52,243 posts)
15. hard to say
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 12:03 PM
Jul 2017

certainly a good number used that as a rationalization for their vote for carter.

however, the pardon helped considerably to "put it all behind us". sure, there was still plenty of talk about watergate, but it quickly became all in the past tense. if we imagine a world in which ford didn't pardon nixon, we have to imagine that there would have been continued investigations and trials and a longer period of time in which watergate was talked about in the present tense, as a still unfolding saga.

ford has more personal integrity in that scenario, but the republican "brand" would have been marred to a further extent than it was in real life. the 1976 election could have turned into more of a simple referendum on watergate and republicans might have lost in a landslide.

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
6. Yes
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 11:49 AM
Jul 2017

And I am guessing that undated pardons have already been prepared.

The real question is "Can the President pardon himself?"

grantcart

(53,061 posts)
12. Outside of impeachment, that has not been established.
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 11:55 AM
Jul 2017

The simplest interpretation is that the president can pardon any federal criminal offense, including his own, but cannot pardon an impeachment. In other words, Clinton is free to immunize himself from criminal prosecution, but has no power over Congress.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/1998/12/can_president_clinton_pardon_himself.html

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
8. Yes / No
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 11:51 AM
Jul 2017

Blanket pardons were made by Gerald Ford for all of the Vietnam draft resisters.

As far as being compelled to testify:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burdick_v._United_States

In other words, if you accept the pardon, then you can be compelled to testify, and must do so truthfully.

Burdick maintained his refusal to testify by rejecting a pardon from Woodrow Wilson.

Brother Buzz

(36,440 posts)
13. I thought Carter offered the blanket pardon
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 11:55 AM
Jul 2017

Gerald Ford offered conditional amnesty to some draft dodgers. Carter, however, seeking to heal the war's physic wounds, set no conditions, although some individuals were excluded from the blanket pardon.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
20. Oh, yep...
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 12:15 PM
Jul 2017

In either event, if one is pardoned prior to being charged with a crime (for which one has a pardon), you just hand them this:

unblock

(52,243 posts)
9. yes but he can't pardon for matters of state law, only federal law.
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 11:52 AM
Jul 2017

it would be delicious if they "got away with" all kinds of federal lawbreaking due to an abuse of the pardon power only to get tripped up by some state law.

rainbow4321

(9,974 posts)
14. Given the lawyer's connection to the money laundering case in NY
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 11:57 AM
Jul 2017

Hopefully there is some kind of connection and there are State charges..not a damn thing Trump can do about that.
Remember, the Russian lawyer who he met with was here in the US to be part of the defense team for Prevezon.

unblock

(52,243 posts)
17. yes i have hopes for ny charges, maybe rico. though this is all prior to the campaign.
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 12:06 PM
Jul 2017

i'll take whatever we can get against these criminals, but i would hope for some crime relating to the campaign and/or abuses in office.

campaigns are subject to state law so this is certainly possible; abuses in office is mostly federal law so this is less likely.

Xolodno

(6,395 posts)
11. Yeap. Ford, Bush & Carter all did.
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 11:55 AM
Jul 2017

Ford pardoned Nixon (as part of a deal).

Both Bush's for some of their staff.

Carter pardoned all the draft dodgers of the Vietnam War that fled the country.

None of them went to trial.

I suspect we may be seeing that again soon. But when it happens, it means Trump is already writing is resignation speech.

Louis1895

(768 posts)
16. I am sure Pence would pardon Trump...
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 12:05 PM
Jul 2017

...for the same reasons Ford pardoned Nixon.

"There were no historical or legal precedents to guide Ford in the matter of Nixon’s pending indictment, but after much thought, he decided to give Nixon a full pardon for all offenses against the United States in order to put the tragic and disruptive scandal behind all concerned. Ford justified this decision by claiming that a long, drawn-out trial would only have further polarized the public."

http://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/ford-explains-his-pardon-of-nixon-to-congress

former9thward

(32,017 posts)
22. Clinton pardoned Marc Rich.
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 12:18 PM
Jul 2017

Rich was a federal fugitive at the time in Switzerland. He had been indicted but never tried.

Kablooie

(18,634 posts)
24. So Trump could pardon everyone before anything happens.
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 01:11 PM
Jul 2017

And continue on his merry way.

There would be outrage on the left but the right would dismiss it as nonsense and everything will continue as before with the scandal behind us and no consequences for anyone involved.

I don't have faith that the outrage would take out enough Republicans to make a huge difference because of the humongous right wing propaganda machine that envelops much of the country.

How wonderful.

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