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Bleacher Creature

(11,257 posts)
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 03:35 PM Jul 2017

So now it's confirmed that Hillary was up against the Russian government.

In addition to the RNC, the Trump campaign, a media apparatus obsessed with silly "scandals," and Comey (as well as a number of FBI officials with way too close for comfort relationships with certain GOPers, including Rudy Giuliani).

And yet she still won the popular vote by more than 3 million.

Tell me again how she was a weak candidate?

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So now it's confirmed that Hillary was up against the Russian government. (Original Post) Bleacher Creature Jul 2017 OP
I'd like to hear that explanation too mcar Jul 2017 #1
The whole email thing was such a red herring that it bore little merit of further investigation GeoWilliam750 Jul 2017 #19
Here is the short version hurple Jul 2017 #27
Eh Iplayoneontv Jul 2017 #59
As a former employee of BlueMTexpat Jul 2017 #66
Don't forget moda253 Jul 2017 #2
Oh wow! How did I forget that?? Bleacher Creature Jul 2017 #4
Also, don't forget that the bulk of our MSM enabled all of it. GoCubsGo Jul 2017 #17
Don't forget Trump won MI, WI, and PA by 1% margin...that was Russia tweaking the votes iluvtennis Jul 2017 #18
I feel like this was the biggest hurdle. Lucky Luciano Jul 2017 #22
That would be preceived hurple Jul 2017 #28
Is it illegal to get someone an ID card? Lucky Luciano Jul 2017 #49
I think it is illegal to pay BainsBane Jul 2017 #57
I say the dems should still pay for it with a poll tax defense. nt Lucky Luciano Jul 2017 #94
anything Democrats do to encourage their base DBoon Jul 2017 #55
boo hoo to them ProfessorPlum Jul 2017 #72
I'd also love to know. Please proceed... lunamagica Jul 2017 #3
She was weak Eko Jul 2017 #5
don't forget EMAILS !!! /sarcasm YCHDT Jul 2017 #10
Darn, Eko Jul 2017 #11
Also, she coughed. n/t BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2017 #39
Yep. And that was used against her by the left as well. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2017 #70
Hillary derangement syndrome. ☹️ BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2017 #92
+1. Eom pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #96
I'll always remember that lipless creep Hugh Hewitt saying: JHan Jul 2017 #80
Reich Wing media, much? BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2017 #93
I lol'd... JHan Jul 2017 #78
Ask Joe Biden. nt DURHAM D Jul 2017 #6
He is always so much help, yes he is. Eom pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #20
Who would not BlueMTexpat Jul 2017 #67
I call him "Know It All Joe" DURHAM D Jul 2017 #73
Thanks for the clarification! BlueMTexpat Jul 2017 #88
K&R! R B Garr Jul 2017 #7
Yep. But don't hold your breath waiting for an answer. Squinch Jul 2017 #8
Hillary Haters and Trolls: ".. well did she spin the world backwards, no?!!?!? Well ..she was weak" YCHDT Jul 2017 #9
Well said. Nt retrowire Jul 2017 #12
Note mini-Trump accepted PREMISE of Russian govt support for Trump. The DEAL was already made. Bernardo de La Paz Jul 2017 #13
Yes Trump definitely did the quid pro quo FakeNoose Jul 2017 #38
Oh, hell! Great! Ruin my friggin day already! KPN Jul 2017 #82
We watched. We already knew. And the world continued on. Surreal. Eom pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #84
And third party, and Sanders Independent in our Democratic Party. A lot. Still, 3 million more pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #14
Sanders is fantastic. nt Lucky Luciano Jul 2017 #24
Lol. That is an interesting reply to what I stated. Eom pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #26
These are very serious allegations" but there should not be a rush to judgement pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #43
Makes one wonder, especially after his less than enthusiastic comment on Jon Ossoff... brush Jul 2017 #76
It also shows why Trump lives in abject fear of going against Putin... BamaRefugee Jul 2017 #15
Thank you. volstork Jul 2017 #16
"She would be under protracted criminal investigation, and probably a criminal trial..." VOX Jul 2017 #21
Oh, that is ironic. Trump is a human projection machine. nt betsuni Jul 2017 #63
Well, that and 15-16 years of pretty much continuous propaganda Sentath Jul 2017 #23
More like 20 years. Clinton Derangement Syndrome goes way back. She still won. Hekate Jul 2017 #29
Make that 25 years on the national level, 1992-2017, longer in AR. L. Coyote Jul 2017 #75
Exactly Hekate Jul 2017 #81
We're not allowed to mention that... Blue_Tires Jul 2017 #25
yep hurple Jul 2017 #30
I really want those who think she's weak to show up in today's threads... Hekate Jul 2017 #31
Yes! "Oh misogyny had nothing to do with anything " BlancheSplanchnik Jul 2017 #42
They're pretty quiet right now. we can do it Jul 2017 #51
Too busy accusing Democrats today not doing anything, or being loud enough, pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #52
Oh yeah, I ignored that one. we can do it Jul 2017 #53
I want my free and fair elections back! Sucha NastyWoman Jul 2017 #32
And the Supreme Court seat they stole! NT Bleacher Creature Jul 2017 #34
It pisses me off for life too. They did steal it. So much for Alice11111 Jul 2017 #36
Is it fair to say .... OnDoutside Jul 2017 #33
Trump was right, the system was rigged...for him to win! Alice11111 Jul 2017 #35
It's because of the Democrats' failure to curry favor with the Russian saboteurs! NBachers Jul 2017 #37
Well, with cries of "a rigged system" coming from both her primary & GE opponents, she was boxed... Tarheel_Dem Jul 2017 #40
+1 betsuni Jul 2017 #60
+1 check077 Jul 2017 #83
Yep, they jumped on the anit-Hillary bandwagon and spewed repug talking points too brush Jul 2017 #77
Right. Then Stein jumps in and does a fake, with Democrats $. Eom pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #85
Even vs the (R)ussian Kraken- Hillary WON by 3 million votes! SuperWoman! Sunlei Jul 2017 #41
Exactly. nt SunSeeker Jul 2017 #47
And if it hadn't been for Comey, she STILL would've won! Doug the Dem Jul 2017 #44
Me neither. lunamagica Jul 2017 #46
Talk about what goes around, comes around. . . . OldRedneck Jul 2017 #45
K&R gademocrat7 Jul 2017 #48
She wasn't a weak candidate. THEY KNOWINGLY COMMITTED TREASON. Initech Jul 2017 #50
Donald promised the election would be stolen, and it was ecstatic Jul 2017 #54
She tried to tell everyone that but NOoooooo "Her e-mails, her speeches, her Benghazi scandal.... nikibatts Jul 2017 #56
Nobody has said this yet - Ben Gozzy! RainCaster Jul 2017 #58
Goddammit. We could have had a smart, experienced, capable woman. The first woman. nolabear Jul 2017 #61
Yes. The election was stolen, and a Supreme Court seat. brush Jul 2017 #79
K&R betsuni Jul 2017 #62
K&R 101 orangecrush Jul 2017 #64
In our system drmeow Jul 2017 #65
Kick. I'm still with Her. Hekate Jul 2017 #68
Not to mention the odds against a party holding the WH for more than 8 consecutive years. (nt) ehrnst Jul 2017 #69
Agent Orange needs to be ousted & Hillary restored to her rightful win onetexan Jul 2017 #71
Against a no holds barred, politics as warfare, global criminal conspiracy. L. Coyote Jul 2017 #74
Imagine how she felt when this was brought up at the debate and what he said about it and her. BigmanPigman Jul 2017 #86
Don't tell the Putinist left; they're still clinging to their narratives... Blue_Tires Jul 2017 #87
And a small % of the so-called... SkyDaddy7 Jul 2017 #89
I might always be bitter about this. Starry Messenger Jul 2017 #90
+1. I was thinking the same this morning. Or maybe yesterday. Or a week ago, month ago. Eom pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #91
"The Russian government targeted influential populations in key states down to the precinct level" dalton99a Jul 2017 #95

GeoWilliam750

(2,522 posts)
19. The whole email thing was such a red herring that it bore little merit of further investigation
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 04:41 PM
Jul 2017

Thus, I would appreciate a little help from more informed people.

Were there deleted emails?

If so, who deleted them? Did Russia have a part in that?

Apologies in advance for my ignorance on the subject.

hurple

(1,306 posts)
27. Here is the short version
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 05:12 PM
Jul 2017

In one of the many "investigations" into Benghazi it was disclosed that HRC was using a private email server, in her home, for Secretary of State business. (Which was recommended she do by Colin Powell, as he had done prior to her, and as Condalezza(sp?) Rice had done prior to him, and which was not illegal at the time... although it has since been made illegal) The Benghazi committee subpoenaed all "work related" emails from HRC's private server.

So, Clinton's being Clinton's, and wanting to maintain a level of privacy, she hired an outside law firm to go through all the emails archived on the server and remove all the personal, private emails.

THOSE are the ones they are talking about when they claim they want to see the "deleted" emails.

The ones the law firm regarded as work-related were handed over to the Benghazi committee... etc.

Iplayoneontv

(77 posts)
59. Eh
Wed Jul 12, 2017, 12:49 AM
Jul 2017

All the government workers I know said her server was probably safer. These aren't Democrats saying this. The government IT security is not awesome because each little fiefdom has their own rules.

Bleacher Creature

(11,257 posts)
4. Oh wow! How did I forget that??
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 03:40 PM
Jul 2017

You're absolutely right. What a coincidence that the states she barely lost were the ones with the most draconian voter suppresion efforts - MI, WI, and PA. Not to mention NC.

Thanks for reminding me.

GoCubsGo

(32,084 posts)
17. Also, don't forget that the bulk of our MSM enabled all of it.
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 04:30 PM
Jul 2017

They outright ignored not only the voter suppression tactics, but they also looked the other way at Trump's behavior and carried water for him, while crucifying Hillary over petty shit.

But, Hillary only won the popular vote by 3 million, and not by 7 or 8 million, so she's the worst candidate in the world.

Lucky Luciano

(11,257 posts)
22. I feel like this was the biggest hurdle.
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 04:47 PM
Jul 2017

The democrats should canvas poor neighborhoods and pay for people to get their voter ID. Probably cheaper than the amount they spend pervote in advertising!

BainsBane

(53,034 posts)
57. I think it is illegal to pay
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 10:30 PM
Jul 2017

but they can help them get it in other ways, like help with paper work and where to find resources to pay for them. I believe they did do that in some states.

DBoon

(22,366 posts)
55. anything Democrats do to encourage their base
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 10:18 PM
Jul 2017

will be perceived as illegal by those with a vested interest in hanging on to their power

Eko

(7,315 posts)
5. She was weak
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 03:41 PM
Jul 2017

because she didnt connect with something something yadaa yadda, needs to move to the left,,,,needs to move to the right,,,, mumble, mumble, vince foster and nancy pelosi, corporatist, big money,,,, bill clinton wants to lock up everybody,,,,,,the DLC,,,,, speeches,,,,,,.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
92. Hillary derangement syndrome. ☹️
Wed Jul 12, 2017, 07:31 PM
Jul 2017

A simple google search of her accomplishments should be enough to prove to any reasonable person that she is eminently qualified, AND has the best interests of We, the People at heart.

JHan

(10,173 posts)
80. I'll always remember that lipless creep Hugh Hewitt saying:
Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:45 AM
Jul 2017

for the first debate Clinton cannot laugh, cannot cough... while Trump just needed to stay on message or some shit.

in fucking credible.

BlueMTexpat

(15,369 posts)
88. Thanks for the clarification!
Wed Jul 12, 2017, 04:09 PM
Jul 2017


He was a good Veep with Obama. But I will never forgive him for his role helping to foist Clarence Thomas on us all.

There are a LOT of us with very long memories about that.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
13. Note mini-Trump accepted PREMISE of Russian govt support for Trump. The DEAL was already made.
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 04:16 PM
Jul 2017

Plus McCONnell refused to confirm Merrick Garland because he knew the scheme was in motion.

Thus by date of that first email, about a week after Republicon Convention, there had already been negotiations and agreements for that support.

The quid pro quo was the change to the Republican platform regarding sanctions against Russia and that there would be ongoing efforts by tRump to lift the sanctions.

FakeNoose

(32,641 posts)
38. Yes Trump definitely did the quid pro quo
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 05:52 PM
Jul 2017

...even though he never received any hacked emails from the Russians, that we know of.

I remember reading somewhere that the FBI has a tape of Trump (supposedly it was intended for Putin) stating that he would ease the sanctions against Russia if he got elected. So that's ANOTHER quid pro quo on a different subject.

They really have the goods on him, don't they?

KPN

(15,646 posts)
82. Oh, hell! Great! Ruin my friggin day already!
Wed Jul 12, 2017, 12:17 PM
Jul 2017

This stuff really is infuriating -- because everything you said is dead on!

And we got MSM (all of them!) discussing whether or not any laws were actually broken! Christ help us!

How do we FIX this? How do we FIX Gorsuch instead of Garland?!! How do we change something that never should have happened?

I know the Constitution has no provisions to correct these illicit acts. It's enormously frustrating. My passionate self says we the people need to rise up and make things right -- but I really don't think we have it in us to do that, especially in a peaceful way. Sad.

 

pirateshipdude

(967 posts)
14. And third party, and Sanders Independent in our Democratic Party. A lot. Still, 3 million more
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 04:22 PM
Jul 2017

votes.

Not good enough. Further, we insist she apologize for her failure over and over, tell her to shut up repeatedly and go away.

Amazing, right?

 

pirateshipdude

(967 posts)
43. These are very serious allegations" but there should not be a rush to judgement
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 06:13 PM
Jul 2017

See? I do not think this statement from Sanders were even a little "fantastic". I see another lack luster response at best, on a huge issue.

You?

brush

(53,784 posts)
76. Makes one wonder, especially after his less than enthusiastic comment on Jon Ossoff...
Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:28 AM
Jul 2017

maybe not being a progressive.

Is someone's fire beginning to sputter?

VOX

(22,976 posts)
21. "She would be under protracted criminal investigation, and probably a criminal trial..."
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 04:42 PM
Jul 2017
http://www.latimes.com/nation/politics/trailguide/la-na-trailguide-updates-donald-trump-warns-of-constitutional-1477939438-htmlstory.html
Los Angeles Times, 10/31/2016

"She would be under protracted criminal investigation, and probably a criminal trial, I would say. So we'd have a criminal trial of a sitting president."

(Trump) warned that Russian President Vladimir Putin and other world leaders would "sit back and they would laugh and they would smile" during a years-long investigation. In the meantime, he predicted, manufacturing in the country would further decline and other problems would go unaddressed.

"Our country will continue to suffer," Trump said.
<snip>

Sentath

(2,243 posts)
23. Well, that and 15-16 years of pretty much continuous propaganda
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 04:48 PM
Jul 2017

vilifying her family name.

Which STILL wasn't enough, they had to hack it to win.

Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
25. We're not allowed to mention that...
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 04:55 PM
Jul 2017

All we're supposed to to is prattle on and on about not making tour stops in Wisconsin...

Hekate

(90,708 posts)
31. I really want those who think she's weak to show up in today's threads...
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 05:18 PM
Jul 2017

I double dog dare you. Bring it on.

BlancheSplanchnik

(20,219 posts)
42. Yes! "Oh misogyny had nothing to do with anything "
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 06:11 PM
Jul 2017

Misogyny played its part, especially in the way Hilary haters find it so easy to believe ridiculous smears about her. In the same way the media found it so easy to question her "fitness for office" and smear her character by insinuations over trivialities such as fashion, coughing and vocal inflections, while ignoring her superlative resumé.

Media, much of it repuke owned, have been after both Clintons for at least 30 years, but the hatred, the dehumanization, sticks to her in a way it wouldn't to a man, as it does to all women.

 

pirateshipdude

(967 posts)
52. Too busy accusing Democrats today not doing anything, or being loud enough,
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 10:01 PM
Jul 2017

or even good enough when they do speak out.

Sucha NastyWoman

(2,749 posts)
32. I want my free and fair elections back!
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 05:29 PM
Jul 2017

Gerrymandering, voter suppression, Russian collusion,fake news stories

now it makes sense why Hillary lost

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
36. It pisses me off for life too. They did steal it. So much for
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 05:45 PM
Jul 2017

Checks and balances, and Democracy. WTF!
As McCain commented, when asked a question about seeing the "tapes," why don't you ask Putin.

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
35. Trump was right, the system was rigged...for him to win!
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 05:40 PM
Jul 2017

...and w this SCOTUS, we aren't going to get rulings that let Repubs lose control.

Tarheel_Dem

(31,234 posts)
40. Well, with cries of "a rigged system" coming from both her primary & GE opponents, she was boxed...
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 06:01 PM
Jul 2017

in no matter how you look at it. By the time the primaries ended, they had managed to make Hillary and all the institutions of the Democratic Party toxic. The Russians helped, but there were too many on our own side, who were willfully and intentionally aiding & abetting.

brush

(53,784 posts)
77. Yep, they jumped on the anit-Hillary bandwagon and spewed repug talking points too
Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:35 AM
Jul 2017

"Corporate whore" is the one I'll never forget.

And then all the "fighting the Democratic establishment" stuff too from a certain somebody.

 

OldRedneck

(1,397 posts)
45. Talk about what goes around, comes around. . . .
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 06:18 PM
Jul 2017

Trump was so happy that Hillary was brought down by her emails . . . and now we have Donald Jr's . . . .


ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ecstatic

(32,705 posts)
54. Donald promised the election would be stolen, and it was
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 10:03 PM
Jul 2017

The suckers were the ones who were verbally "defending" our democracy as it was being stolen.

 

nikibatts

(2,198 posts)
56. She tried to tell everyone that but NOoooooo "Her e-mails, her speeches, her Benghazi scandal....
Tue Jul 11, 2017, 10:26 PM
Jul 2017

Talk about "Nothing burgers." We got what we ignored.

nolabear

(41,984 posts)
61. Goddammit. We could have had a smart, experienced, capable woman. The first woman.
Wed Jul 12, 2017, 01:00 AM
Jul 2017

They took that. They STOLE that away from us.

brush

(53,784 posts)
79. Yes. The election was stolen, and a Supreme Court seat.
Wed Jul 12, 2017, 10:43 AM
Jul 2017

But I just have to believe that somehow this is going to be righted.

These crooks just can't get away with this. It might come unexpectedly from another direction or issue altogether but it's bound to happen.

“The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.”

— MLK

drmeow

(5,018 posts)
65. In our system
Wed Jul 12, 2017, 02:10 AM
Jul 2017

The deck is stacked against people who are more progressive and in the past 20 years conservatives have made it even more uphill. I'm reminded of that quote about Ginger Rogers who did everything Fred Astaire did but backwards and in heels!

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
74. Against a no holds barred, politics as warfare, global criminal conspiracy.
Wed Jul 12, 2017, 09:18 AM
Jul 2017

Tell mew how they are not planning to break up the USA and steal everything.

BigmanPigman

(51,607 posts)
86. Imagine how she felt when this was brought up at the debate and what he said about it and her.
Wed Jul 12, 2017, 03:25 PM
Jul 2017

She had to stand there, be calm and rational, and take this BS on live camera. She should get an oscar or a medal or at the very least be the POTUS!

SkyDaddy7

(6,045 posts)
89. And a small % of the so-called...
Wed Jul 12, 2017, 04:09 PM
Jul 2017

Left who bought into all the Russian bot stories about how Hillary killed her political opponents & basically ran her family charity like a mob! It was heart breaking!

dalton99a

(81,513 posts)
95. "The Russian government targeted influential populations in key states down to the precinct level"
Wed Jul 12, 2017, 08:24 PM
Jul 2017
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/07/jared-kushner-trump-campaign-russia-investigation

The question that both Congressional and D.O.J. investigators hope to answer is how the Russian government managed to so effectively identify and target unexpectedly influential voter populations in key states, down to the precinct level. According to McClatchy, one source said that investigators wonder whether Russia would have “known where to specifically target” without assistance from another party. “There appears to have been significant cooperation between Russia’s online propaganda machine and individuals in the United States who were knowledgeable about where to target the disinformation,” Mike Carpenter, who left a senior post at the Pentagon in January, said.

With an army of “bots” wielding pro-Trump messaging and “fake-news” stories about Clinton, the Russian government targeted a number of key precincts in states that Clinton narrowly lost last year. “It appears that, for example, women and African-Americans were targeted in places like Wisconsin and Michigan, where the Democrats were too brain-dead to realize those states were even in play,” Mark Warner, the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, said during an interview with Pod Save America. “I get the fact that the Russian intel services could figure out how to manipulate and use the bots. Whether they could know how to target states and levels of voters that the Democrats weren’t even aware really raises some questions.”





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