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highplainsdem

(49,044 posts)
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:16 PM Jul 2017

Tribe: Presidential self-pardon unconstitutional, & anyone DT pardons could be compelled to testify

From Laurence Tribe this evening:




My view: a president's self-pardon would be unconstitutional.







Memo to Trump: Anyone you pardon can be compelled to testify without any grant of immunity, and that testimony could undo you.
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Tribe: Presidential self-pardon unconstitutional, & anyone DT pardons could be compelled to testify (Original Post) highplainsdem Jul 2017 OP
This! C_U_L8R Jul 2017 #1
... and when they don't testify they go to jail? Go home? thx in advance uponit7771 Jul 2017 #2
Jail Jim Lane Jul 2017 #16
Anyone who accepts a pardon is admitting guilt dflprincess Jul 2017 #3
So If Trump Is Impeached Then.... global1 Jul 2017 #4
once he is no longer potus, he is liable for any federal crimes committed. unblock Jul 2017 #7
Yep. The SUPERGENUIS is gonna defend himself right into a goddamn federal prison. Volaris Jul 2017 #5
i think he's underestimating the corrupt lengths to which benedict donald & co. will go unblock Jul 2017 #6
You know. I don't care if he pardons himself, as long as he leaves question everything Jul 2017 #8
At times I kinda agree with you, but I hate to think of the precedent that would be set. highplainsdem Jul 2017 #17
Yep. Me too. TrishaJ Jul 2017 #18
If it were constitutional, moondust Jul 2017 #9
I always thought his plan was to avoid russian debt collection Merlot Jul 2017 #11
A gigantic heist moondust Jul 2017 #12
BINGO. WinkyDink Jul 2017 #14
Good report. oasis Jul 2017 #10
He could work out a deal with Pence: Trump pardons his friends and family, resigns, and tblue37 Jul 2017 #13
The Ford Tactic. Of course, Ford then wasn't elected, so.... WinkyDink Jul 2017 #15
 

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)
16. Jail
Fri Jul 21, 2017, 06:51 AM
Jul 2017

For defying a valid subpoena requiring the person to testify, he or she can be jailed for contempt of court (or contempt of Congress, if the subpoena was issued by a Congressional committee).

Robert Mueller, as special counsel to the Department of Justice, has the power to issue subpoenas.

dflprincess

(28,086 posts)
3. Anyone who accepts a pardon is admitting guilt
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:20 PM
Jul 2017

and once they have done that, they can't fall back on the Fifth Amendment. Donnie Two Scoops may outsmart himself if he starts issuing pardons.

global1

(25,279 posts)
4. So If Trump Is Impeached Then....
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:27 PM
Jul 2017

and people he pardoned that can't fall back on the 5th A - and they rat him out - to lead to his impeachment - would he still be susceptible to further legal action against him that would lead him to be jailed?

unblock

(52,355 posts)
7. once he is no longer potus, he is liable for any federal crimes committed.
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:45 PM
Jul 2017

note, however, that as long as he *is* potus, he can still pardon his cronies not only for their original misdeeds, but also for refusing to then testify against him.

unblock

(52,355 posts)
6. i think he's underestimating the corrupt lengths to which benedict donald & co. will go
Thu Jul 20, 2017, 11:38 PM
Jul 2017

first he'll pardon all his cronies.

then, when they get subpoenaed to testify against benedict donald, they'll all refuse.

they'll then get charged with contempt or obstruction or whatever, it doesn't matter ***because benedict donald will pardon that, too!***

they can't *really* be compelled to testify until benedict donald no longer wields the pardon power.

question everything

(47,544 posts)
8. You know. I don't care if he pardons himself, as long as he leaves
Fri Jul 21, 2017, 12:04 AM
Jul 2017

and taking the whole crowd: Kushner, Bannon, Ivanka, with him.

highplainsdem

(49,044 posts)
17. At times I kinda agree with you, but I hate to think of the precedent that would be set.
Fri Jul 21, 2017, 09:35 AM
Jul 2017

It's important for our country, and for our standing in the world, for their crimes to be exposed, and for them to be punished.

moondust

(20,014 posts)
9. If it were constitutional,
Fri Jul 21, 2017, 12:22 AM
Jul 2017

it seems like it would be a huge incentive for crooks to lie their way into the office, pull off a gigantic heist during or at the end of their terms, and simply pardon themselves on the way out the door. Yikes!

(I wonder if that was his plan?)

Merlot

(9,696 posts)
11. I always thought his plan was to avoid russian debt collection
Fri Jul 21, 2017, 02:14 AM
Jul 2017

by becoming their puppet. Maybe in their private meeting, putie and trumptf discussed debt relief and forgivness.

Remove sanctions = debt forgivness.

tblue37

(65,490 posts)
13. He could work out a deal with Pence: Trump pardons his friends and family, resigns, and
Fri Jul 21, 2017, 02:27 AM
Jul 2017

then gets pardoned by Pence. Heck, since Pence is dirty, too, Trump could preemptively pardon him, as well, then resign to be pardoned by him.

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