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blogslut

(38,002 posts)
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 11:04 AM Jul 2017

So, perhaps a sitting president CAN be indicted! NYT

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/22/us/politics/can-president-be-indicted-kenneth-starr-memo.html?smid=tw-share

WASHINGTON — A newfound memo from Kenneth W. Starr’s independent counsel investigation into President Bill Clinton sheds fresh light on a constitutional puzzle that is taking on mounting significance amid the Trump-Russia inquiry: Can a sitting president be indicted?

The 56-page memo, locked in the National Archives for nearly two decades and obtained by The New York Times under the Freedom of Information Act, amounts to the most thorough government-commissioned analysis rejecting a generally held view that presidents are immune from prosecution while in office.

“It is proper, constitutional, and legal for a federal grand jury to indict a sitting president for serious criminal acts that are not part of, and are contrary to, the president’s official duties,” the Starr office memo concludes. “In this country, no one, even President Clinton, is above the law.”

Mr. Starr assigned Ronald Rotunda, a prominent conservative professor of constitutional law and ethics whom Mr. Starr hired as a consultant on his legal team, to write the memo in spring 1998 after deputies advised him that they had gathered enough evidence to ask a grand jury to indict Mr. Clinton, the memo shows...
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So, perhaps a sitting president CAN be indicted! NYT (Original Post) blogslut Jul 2017 OP
Kick. dalton99a Jul 2017 #1
I was always hoping they would rue that day WhiteTara Jul 2017 #2
So true! ffr Jul 2017 #7
A blowjob......still makes me ill living through that whole fiasco. a kennedy Jul 2017 #11
I've always noticed that things happen when I've given up, Alice11111 Jul 2017 #22
Well, isn't that delish, this comes back and bites them in the ass. pirateshipdude Jul 2017 #3
Yeah, that would be perfect! nt procon Jul 2017 #21
Amazing how much work the rupugs did over a BJ Canoe52 Jul 2017 #4
I remember Lindsey Graham TrishaJ Jul 2017 #9
My most vivid memory is of another son of SC, Strom Thurmond, framming the microphone japple Jul 2017 #17
Me too.The sanctimonious procession of the accusers, Alice11111 Jul 2017 #24
In this country, no one, even President Clinton, is above the law. ... DK504 Jul 2017 #5
Yes indeed.. Volaris Jul 2017 #20
And now the Republican hypocrites will argue the opposite bench scientist Jul 2017 #6
Anyone that seriously believes that a single Republican would apply that to Trump DefenseLawyer Jul 2017 #8
Indeed gratuitous Jul 2017 #10
Trump did the peeing ... I don't know how people keep missing that ... mr_lebowski Jul 2017 #25
An informed legal opinion, but... LudwigPastorius Jul 2017 #12
Recommended. H2O Man Jul 2017 #13
I always thought that the lesson of Watergate PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 2017 #14
Thought so too mgardener Jul 2017 #36
"And why /how can a POTUS pardon someone for treason?" - Because the Constitution... PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #40
But he, as you point out, wasn't indicted, and later was pardoned... PoliticAverse Jul 2017 #41
And by giving that pardon Jerry Ford made sure he'd never be elected on his own. PoindexterOglethorpe Jul 2017 #42
And just look at how many people, even Neema Jul 2017 #44
Nice, but right wingers never cop to any previous statement or belief that Nitram Jul 2017 #15
How ironic if the Republicans' OWN witch hunt came back to bite them in the ass. Chemisse Jul 2017 #16
And starr abused the process so horrendously Gabi Hayes Jul 2017 #26
K/R BadgerMom Jul 2017 #18
Kick! smirkymonkey Jul 2017 #19
Shhh... rusty fender Jul 2017 #23
Kenneth Star isn't the sole authority, either. His authority lies with the Constitution. ancianita Jul 2017 #27
Oh sweet irony, the Republicans laid the groundwork for indicting Trump. L. Coyote Jul 2017 #28
History is circular. Sometimes you make it, and sometimes it bites you in the butt. crosinski Jul 2017 #29
Good news! Depends on what actions of his give rise to a criminal charge. Honeycombe8 Jul 2017 #30
A "shitting" President. EWWW! madinmaryland Jul 2017 #31
LOL! Maynar Jul 2017 #33
Hop to it! It will be too late once the Cossacks invade bucolic_frolic Jul 2017 #32
OH happy DAY!! onetexan Jul 2017 #34
Well, of course if it's a Democratic president... (nt) ehrnst Jul 2017 #35
The alleged crimes took place before he was elected randr Jul 2017 #37
k&r n/t orleans Jul 2017 #38
Things are all aligning very quickly now bucolic_frolic Jul 2017 #39
Come on, you know the drill. SergeStorms Jul 2017 #43

WhiteTara

(29,718 posts)
2. I was always hoping they would rue that day
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 11:07 AM
Jul 2017

and perhaps the day has arrived where what they did with the law for a blowjob, we will use for criminal acts.

a kennedy

(29,673 posts)
11. A blowjob......still makes me ill living through that whole fiasco.
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 12:18 PM
Jul 2017
I hope it comes back and just destroys the repubs....I DISPISE THEM.
 

pirateshipdude

(967 posts)
3. Well, isn't that delish, this comes back and bites them in the ass.
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 11:10 AM
Jul 2017

Especially since Starr has come back on the scene to steal our votes, I believe.

Canoe52

(2,948 posts)
4. Amazing how much work the rupugs did over a BJ
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 11:19 AM
Jul 2017

too bad they don't put in that much time constructively helping the country.

As our ex-president to be says - Sad.

TrishaJ

(798 posts)
9. I remember Lindsey Graham
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 12:17 PM
Jul 2017

(in the House at that time) going on and on and on about "rule of law! rule of law! rule of law!"

And where is the Senator NOW on "rule of law??" CRICKETS

japple

(9,833 posts)
17. My most vivid memory is of another son of SC, Strom Thurmond, framming the microphone
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 12:45 PM
Jul 2017

saying, "is this machine working...is this thang on?"

Alice11111

(5,730 posts)
24. Me too.The sanctimonious procession of the accusers,
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 01:56 PM
Jul 2017

led by Lindsey Graham
It was a recreation of the Salem Witch trials. I've always hated him. He has not changed that much, but the RW has gone to the far Right of him, making him a moderate in this Senate. Who would have thought that possible after Obama. He's trying to get DACA through.

DK504

(3,847 posts)
5. In this country, no one, even President Clinton, is above the law. ...
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 11:20 AM
Jul 2017

Whaaaa....Archie Cox was wrong???? He is right no one in this country is supposed to be above the law. That hasn't been the case, but in theory it is correct. They are thinking because a sitting president can't be sued it is the same thing.

Once again the Brown Shirts cherry picking laws. Time to disabuse them of that diversion.

Volaris

(10,272 posts)
20. Yes indeed..
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 01:00 PM
Jul 2017

Doubly so if their own argument for indictment gets to be used against them...gods how they would scream about the unfairness of it all...

 

DefenseLawyer

(11,101 posts)
8. Anyone that seriously believes that a single Republican would apply that to Trump
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 12:12 PM
Jul 2017

including its author, most assuredly picked a bad week to stop sniffing glue.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
10. Indeed
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 12:18 PM
Jul 2017

The fly in the ointment is finding a U.S. Attorney who will convene a grand jury to consider the evidence of any crimes President Trump may have committed. If you see one, he or she is probably riding a unicorn. And the unicorn is farting rainbows. And there's a pot of Russian hooker pee at the end of each of the rainbows.

 

mr_lebowski

(33,643 posts)
25. Trump did the peeing ... I don't know how people keep missing that ...
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 01:56 PM
Jul 2017

I'm quite sure he's 'into' the process being as humiliating to the lady involved as possible, involving 'begging', 'loving it', etc.

LudwigPastorius

(9,155 posts)
12. An informed legal opinion, but...
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 12:24 PM
Jul 2017

ultimately it would be up to the Supreme Court to decide.

...and, Trump is hoping he can stack that deck before such a question comes before them.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,862 posts)
14. I always thought that the lesson of Watergate
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 12:25 PM
Jul 2017

was that no one, not even the President, is above the law.

Remember "unindicted co-conspirator"?

mgardener

(1,817 posts)
36. Thought so too
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 06:37 PM
Jul 2017

Are people even questioning if a POTUS could not be indicted for treason?
And why /how can a POTUS pardon someone for treason?

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
40. "And why /how can a POTUS pardon someone for treason?" - Because the Constitution...
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 08:07 PM
Jul 2017

doesn't say "except in cases of treason" when discussing the President's pardon power.

Considering that George Washington actually pardoned people convicted of treason I'd
say that there's no doubt a President can do so.

PoliticAverse

(26,366 posts)
41. But he, as you point out, wasn't indicted, and later was pardoned...
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 08:24 PM
Jul 2017

thus allowing him to escape the penalties of the law.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(25,862 posts)
42. And by giving that pardon Jerry Ford made sure he'd never be elected on his own.
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 11:05 PM
Jul 2017

I was around then. I was living in the DC area at the time. I recall quite clearly various pundits and editorials pontificating that the pardon was the right thing to do, but I was not at all alone in being totally furious, in thinking that Nixon should have paid the full penalty. He should have died in jail. Instead, as too often happens, he became canonized as a "senior statesman" when he was still the slimy used car salesman he'd always been.

Similarly, John McCain's brain cancer is making people forget what a terrible person he's been. He was lionized here on DU many years ago as some sort of liberal, when he NEVER was even remotely liberal. He has steadily opposed policies and legislation that would improve the lives or ordinary people, and somehow, now, he's sacrosanct?

No. He gets to live and die by what he's actually said and done over the years.

And never forget he was willing to inflict Sarah Palin on us. That alone should condemn him.

Neema

(1,151 posts)
44. And just look at how many people, even
Sun Jul 23, 2017, 03:42 AM
Jul 2017

on the left, are reframing Dubya as a lovable buffoon. The man who took us to war with the wrong country. The man who laughed and joked about looking for the "missing WMDs" under his desk while thousands and thousands of people died. I loathe 45 with the white-hot fury of a thousand suns but it will never make me forget that Duyba should be rotting in jail for war crimes.

Nitram

(22,822 posts)
15. Nice, but right wingers never cop to any previous statement or belief that
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 12:35 PM
Jul 2017

they now find inconvenient.

Chemisse

(30,813 posts)
16. How ironic if the Republicans' OWN witch hunt came back to bite them in the ass.
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 12:40 PM
Jul 2017

That's the trouble with changing the rules to suit the moment; someday the other side may benefit from it.

 

Gabi Hayes

(28,795 posts)
26. And starr abused the process so horrendously
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 01:58 PM
Jul 2017

They got rid of it

Reagan and both bushes would've been impeached by the Starr standard

They SHOULDve been

ancianita

(36,082 posts)
27. Kenneth Star isn't the sole authority, either. His authority lies with the Constitution.
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 02:01 PM
Jul 2017

This also explains why Trump can get indicted.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029358446

L. Coyote

(51,129 posts)
28. Oh sweet irony, the Republicans laid the groundwork for indicting Trump.
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 02:04 PM
Jul 2017

And we all thought that vast, right-wing conspiracy was a completely useless waste of taxpayer monies.

Honeycombe8

(37,648 posts)
30. Good news! Depends on what actions of his give rise to a criminal charge.
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 03:33 PM
Jul 2017

If AFTER the election, they are likely to be deemed part of official duties. If before..no way.

bucolic_frolic

(43,182 posts)
39. Things are all aligning very quickly now
Sat Jul 22, 2017, 07:52 PM
Jul 2017

been a remarkable 3 days ... wonder if something is very imminent

SergeStorms

(19,201 posts)
43. Come on, you know the drill.
Sun Jul 23, 2017, 03:02 AM
Jul 2017

It's Okay If You're A Republican. IOKIYAR.

Clinton lied about a blow-job.

Donald Trump is killing off millions with his "Don't Care" healthcare plan, destroying the American government, allowing Russians to hijack our electoral process, laundering money for Russian Oligarchs, breaking the emoluments clause to an exponential degree, and a host of other dirty, dastardly and unlawful things.

No problem. In the Republican controlled Congress's opinion, Trump hasn't done ANYTHING WRONG!

But that BLOWJOB! LOCK HIM AND HER UP! HITLERY DELETED EMAILS AND WASHED THEM IN ACID! And although the FBI could find nothing to charge them with, they should both swing from a gallows constructed in the Capital Rotunda.

Let the punishment fit the crime, you know?

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