General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNo President Has Been Removed Through Impeachment.
No President has ever pardoned himself, either.
Both things are distinctive for never having occurred. They're unknown territory, really. So, it's difficult to discuss them with any certainty about what either would mean with regard to Trump.
Resignation, followed by a pardon by the successor, however, has happened. Personally, I believe that the only way, short of Trump dying while in office, that he will leave office before his term is complete will be if he resigns.
Trump is a serial quitter. When his businesses have gone south, he declares bankruptcy and walks away. To get him to resign, we have to make him so uncomfortable and impotent as President that he does the equivalent thing and simply walks away from the job. That, I believe, should be the primary focus. Keep the pressure on him. Keep Congress from succeeding with repealing ACA and passing a budget bill that includes all the elements they want. Keep frustrating Trump in every possible way.
Make him powerless and he will quit. I think that is the only approach that is going to work, unless his health forces him to resign or he dies while in office.
We have 2018 and 2020 to rebuild our strength in Congress and to finally elect a solid Democratic candidate for President. I believe that is where our focus should be in the meantime, as we watch the destruction of the Trump presidency.
kimbutgar
(21,161 posts)And our country is going to break up and the constitution dissolved. A neo civil war without shots fired. Those 62 million cult members are still standing by their man and they have their alt media to back them up. Even if they have a recording of chump telling putin to hack and fix the election in his favor the cult members will not believe it.
Those of us 65+million of us are losing patience as each day the insanity unfolds from this presidency. Something is going to crack and break the dam.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Trump has been pretty successfully blocked from his goals so far. Congress seems to be pretty deadlocked in accomplishing its goals, as well. I think we're in for a tough time, but I don't see it as dismally as you do. If we manage to elect majorities in Congress in 2018, Democrats will be able to block Trump completely, really.
The people and their votes are the final check on the government becoming all-powerful and tyrannical. We need to turn out every last Democratic voter in 2018 and 2020. That's the work we have to accomplish. We need to overwhelm the attempts to silence the people's voices. We can do that. But, we must focus our attention on that goal.
We must not be distracted from the job that needs to be done.
kimbutgar
(21,161 posts)What happened in Georgia for instance, unverifiable easily hackable voting machines, voter suppression, and votes not being counted. The GOP has perfected the way to manipulate the votes in their favor. I am still highly suspious of the 2016 vote and fear 2018 will be even worst.
But I really hope I am wrong. I would love to be wrong.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)Democratic voters in that district did not come out and vote. That was what happened. Had they voted, the result would have been different, despite any machinations to control it. That is what we need to accomplish - getting the non-voters to the polling places.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)Do you think voter suppression was strong enough to cause 40% of reg. Dems to not to vote or is it mostly the lazy effect? Voter suppression is becoming wide spread and subtle these days. It's hard to know if people choose not to vote because of fear, work, or credential issus rather than just lazyness. We have to consider all possibilities.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)That happens all the time. We need to fix that. We really do. That will be the answer.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)MineralMan
(146,317 posts)The reasons for not voting are random in nature. The result, though, is always the same.
Initech
(100,080 posts)Their hatred for anyone with a differing opinion is that strong, and they are that stupid. Remember last year when the useful idiots brought their precious killing machines to the voting booths because they were worried about voter fraud? Picture that, but 1,000 times worse.
Nitram
(22,813 posts)We are not a helpless nation nor a helpless electorate.
kimbutgar
(21,161 posts)I can't believe our country elected this evil lying a$$hole into office. And they are choosing party over country.
Nitram
(22,813 posts)Each time it felt like it would never end. Just look around at all the resistance from good people. That's why Trump will nor win.
Nitram
(22,813 posts)With this Congress, however, impeachment is unlikely. Let's see what happens next year.
defacto7
(13,485 posts)over impeachment. He's in control and his base will be more intact. Impeachment is loss of control and could splinter his base. He wants the control and the pulpit more than the little mobs pity would produce.
Nitram
(22,813 posts)Create a mess and walk away for his loyal partners to clean up.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,350 posts)Nixon / Ford repeated.
Prez Pence will be worse.
awesomerwb1
(4,268 posts)Impeachment does not remove.
Congress impeaches, Senate convicts = removal.
MineralMan
(146,317 posts)The statement remains true.
Gothmog
(145,313 posts)Doug the Dem
(1,297 posts)Just sayin', because I know our history.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)meow2u3
(24,764 posts)Grammy23
(5,810 posts)Work to make sure we get enough Dems in office to stymie trump's efforts to destroy our current governing bodies. AND continue to work on ways to get him out sooner rather than later. Even if Pence pardons his sorry ass for Federal crimes, there are still state matters in play. The longer this awful man is in office, the more damage he can do. Even if his worst impact is voter apathy, a sense of hopelessness and throwing up our hands in despair, that means he still has won. If he has citizens so demoralized that they can't or won't vote, we will truly have lost.
So I think we need to work really hard to convince people they do still have a voice and that voting matters. We also have to be triple diligent to ensure our votes are counted accurately so people don't allow their doubts about counting the votes accurately dissuade them from voting.
There are LOTS of us who want to stop tRump and bring the long arm of the law down on him and anyone else involved in his crimes. Give people a task and they will do it. Look how many people showed up in DC the day after the inauguration to protest and demonstrate. So give people a job and they will do it. Outvote him or dump him unceremoniously from office. We're up for both paths.