classified dox, they would be BFFs

IIRC, Trump had words of praise for Kim.

Watch what they do, not what they say.

I wonder if Trump is intentionally provoking as a distraction, and Kim is happy to oblige.

The worse things look for Trump, the more belligerent he becomes.

may not be that predictable when he finishes with our planet.

has made a career of it.

And we didn"t hear about that right away.

Hopefully, there is far more progress than we are aware of.

to send out some batshit-crazy tweets that distracted everyone from it. That was when he sent out his transgender ban tweet, and also the one wondering why the FBI director hadn't been fired yet.

Now he starts with the Korea dick-waving BS, just as things are really heating up with the investigations into his campaign, finances, and the creation of Grand Juries. Right now the only thing people are talking about is North Korea...mission accomplished, yet again, he had managed to get everyone distracted from the investigations into his regime.

When he does the most outrageous things, I really think that most of them are a smokescreen and distraction, especially when investigations are hitting close to home for him.

In other words, don't watch the monkey - watch the organ grinder.

P.T. Barnum had nothing on this guy.

third party will get NK and the U.S. to the negotiating table

A war on the Korean peninsula serves no-one's interests.

NK regime's goal is to survive, and a war with the US would destroy that, and it is highly unlikely that Kim Jong-un is suicidal.

The most likely motivation for their acceleration in their nuclear development capability, is to have it act as a deterrent from the U.S. doing a pre-emptive attack on NK, because the risks of such a pre-emptive attack are too risky for the U.S. to take, because NK would then have nothing to lose

To see that happen!

I believe Trump may be removed as a prerequisite, either article 25 or impeachment...

to pick up wine, and the line was long because everyone was buying tic. So, what the hell.

I fear he may finish his term. Most people know that the adults are trying to take charge of the rude kid.

Hipe you enjoy the wine, and win the lottery!

Looked like I picked the wrong decade to quit drinking.

would deter the U.S. from making such a pre-emptive attack against them.

That is what the cold war was all about. They termed it "peaceful coexistence"

NK is not ideally located geographically for the U.S. to attack it and assume there will be no collateral damage to its neighbors. This is not like Iraq or Libya.

While a renegade general on either side could conceivably try to launch such an attack, I don't think that will happen.

During the Cuban Missile Crisis, there was a fair chance that could have occurred, and Curtis E. Lemay was the General who wanted to do it. For those not familiar, Curtis E. Lemay was George Wallace VP choice, and Lemay was only too willing to campaign that he would use Nuclear Weapons in Viet Nam if necessary.

to distract us from Mueller. As Mueller gets closer, and if DT feels extremely threatened for himself or his family, he may go for broke. I'm Hoping the level headed generals step in, if necessary.

Kim Jong-in doesn't need nukes to perpetuate his regime. All he needs is for everyone to think he has the ability to kill a shitload of South Koreans and possibly a few thousand American soldiers.

That regime has existed for 60 years and survived 2 transitions of power, which is way more of a threat than the American military will ever be to him.

Maybe he wants nukes to force a better deal for his country. Maybe he wants them for another reason, but the whole perpetuate the regime position doesn't hold water with me.

My fear is that OrangeMan also sees it, but figures that means we've got to hit them before they can finish getting that deterrent.

Right now they are in the midst of the worst drought they have seen in many decades. And they were already suffering from worse crops in years prior and a higher population when compared to the last time this happened.

There will be a famine in North Korea in the next few months. A massive one, the likes of which most of us living today have never seen.

The regime there knows it is coming.

They know the last one almost toppled the ruling dynasty then and it was with a much more stable regime in a much stronger place.

A rational nation would seek massive foreign aid, and maybe use the threat of nuclear force as a bargaining chip to get it.

But this regime is not rational. Taking foriegn aid is totally against they brand of Marxism and the "Juche" philosophy of self reliance where they exist as a Marxist (kind of) nation that is totally self reliant. Taking any aid from the outside is seen as a failure of thy philosophy to the point where daily the regime chooses to allow its people to live in poverty and die of starvation and preventable illnesses rather than take any outside aid. What they do take is carefully repackaged and remarked to make sure it looks like it came from inside.

Given all this, in the face of a famine that will lead to massive death and possibly enough to cause regime change I could easily see them looking at war as the last desperate gambit to keep them in power. If they can seize enough of the south to simultaneously grab lots of resources and kill off a few million of their own hungry mouths, then suddenly sue for peace and declare that they will stop advancing but if we attack to try and retake ground they will nuke Seattle- what would we do? They would have supplies and food they seized taking Seoul, millions fewer mouths to feed, a "victory" to keep the regime looking strong and a war to blame any shortages or hardships on.

Last edited Thu Aug 10, 2017, 08:37 AM - Edit history (1)

Of what that entails, but hopefully our Navy knows how to deal with NKs in bathtubs...

Half the time they don't have the exact location of their own ships, or Russia's. They loose commercial ships, and can't even track ghost ships or missing airliners.

There is also bullshit that they can track nuclear weapons near our coasts, yet can't seem to find the several nukes they've actually dropped on US soil, almost blowing up sections of the Southeast United States. We have something like 7-11 missing nukes around the globe that are still unaccounted for, after launching massive searches that are still going on today.


DPRK could have mini subs parked off the coast of every major US city and we wouldn't be the wiser.

They can barely get a missile off the ground so far, they may or may not have a small enough weapons package that will fit on a missile in the inventory.

To think that they have nukes on their subs that will actually launch and work as intended is a stretch way beyond what has been released about their capabilities so far.

I just don't think they are anywhere near being able to do that anytime soon, you would think if they have even been testing a sub launched weapon we would have read about it already.

Not to put down your theory about mini subs but I just don't see it at this time.

But I could be wrong.

DPRK has been investing in dozens of mini subs, because they are cheap, easy to construct and nearly untracable.

They just need to float a mini sub into port and detonate it, much like a suicide vest.

I'm sure there are plenty of people there who would readily give their life for that mission.

And just sail into a populated area and set it off, I mean why lose a sub when you have a fleet of rust buckets already?.

Cargo ships are dime a dozen, subs of any type not so much, just the training of the crew is expensive as hell not to mention the costs of building and upkeep for the sub.

But yes either way is feasible, I just think they'd use a cargo ship instead of a capital ship.

I live ten miles from Bremerton Washington with it's huge naval base and the sub base Bangor and the weapons center at keyport are only a little farther down the highway.

If a shooting war starts I don't think you'll see any more posts from me, this area has always been target number one on
the west coast and it will be hit hard right off the bat.

I think the whole missile thing is more of a diversion.


Check out: http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/70-years-ago-the-us-military-set-off-a-nuke-underwater-and-it-went-very-badly

I wonder? Typically, such vessels are not well-suited for long range use.

.

We get a ton of stuff from Malaysia, with the US being their #2 export nation.

All it takes are a few sympathetic shipping firms to tow the ships near port, all around the world.


===


This is what one mini sub, with a nuke, or a nuke set as a mine, could to to an entire US Carrier Task Force:

http://www.atlasobscura.com/articles/70-years-ago-the-us-military-set-off-a-nuke-underwater-and-it-went-very-badly


Every ship destroyed or irradiated so badly they had to be sunk. (And that was a tiny 21-kiloton WWII bomb).


===

Remember 9/11. It's the simple shit that no one suspects. They could even be in shipping containers.

While the US says they can detect nukes, they surely can't seem to find their own lost ones.

.

Of buying a car manufactured in a place that's been a war zone for 67 years!

Not only that, it's speculated that the artillery pieces haven't seen maintenance due to NK's poverty. Many of them might not even work anymore.

If we have to go to war with them, now is the time. Before they can mount nuclear warheads on missiles.

But in my experience, it is better strategy to overestimate rather than underestimate.

Soon as they start fueling, they can expect incoming cruise missiles. Followed by stealth aircraft making sure the job is done.

Fat boy will have to accept it or go to war and start shelling Seoul. The latter guarantee's his demise, assuming he doesn't suffer a "heart attack" before he can give the order. Both China and Russia are not interested in the Korean War part deaux.

so don't expect any help from that quarter.

If there is anything but a perfunctory, conventional retaliation against their nuclear and missile development sites, the whole world will blow up as Russia and China defend their ally.

My only hope is that there are adults who will hide the buttons from both babies until we can wait for the creaking and agonizingly slow wheels of justice to turn sufficiently for us to get rid of ours. They are responsible for theirs.

The provocation from NK is far more than any excuse for war the US has gotten since Pearl Harbor.

Well, it is all over but the countdown. A declaration of war is sufficient justification to counterattack.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/688140/north-korea-south-korea-united-states-thaad-anti-missle-sea-of-fire

Would Israel have been justified in nuking them to eliminate the threat ?

Technically we have been at war with them since 1951 since there is only an armistice or truce and not a formal peace agreement.

If they fire, we get a chance to test the THAAD systems in live fire excercises. We'll have several chances to shoot them down: from SK, from Japan, and from shipboard launchers.

If they fire, and we successfully shoot them down, NK looks a bit foolish. I doubt they have enough missiles to 'flood the zone' to where some small percentage get through. Meanwhile, the 7th fleet has plenty of firepower to bring to bear, even without going nuke.

I hope it works!

If NK launches in the time frame it is saying it will, it won't matter whether Mueller has done anything -- either Trump or Pence will still be president. Or Ryan. And the military you say won't wait to see whether the missiles are armed will be the same military and will make the same recommendation for action they would have anyway.

The outcome is the same.

Given the immediate consequences to NK of Trump's obvious reponse to a first strike by NK, I see absolutely zero benefit to NK or Kim for launching a first strike.

A concern I find much more problematic and probable is Trump launching the first strike as a result of nothing more than a well-aimed verbal jab by Kim that gets under Trump's skin.

You expect Mueller's investigation to end Trump's presidency?

...greater than a verbal reprimand from Congress.

Aren't done without a viable case.

And they expect to splash 50 miles from Guam? So comforting for the children on Guam. How about they launch at another direction altogether. #IstandWithGuam

What specifically leads you to believe that a threat?

Remember that Super Bowl where the Seahawks were on the 1 yard line. But they missed the end zone. Got real for a few moments though.

Encourage everybody to stop trading with them. Maybe the people will become desperate enough to rise up and take him out.

China will not allow the US and North Korea to start shooting at each other with nuclear weapons in its own front yard," said Zhang. Security is the utmost priority for Chinese leadership, he added, and Beijing fears that a military conflict could result in much of its own country being massively contaminated by nuclear fallout.
http://www.dw.com/en/what-is-chinas-role-in-the-north-korean-crisis/a-40029214

China and the United States remember the Korean War differently. For the United States, the Korean War represents a tie but for China, the war represents a remarkable victory over imperialism in the face of overwhelming odds. I would not bet our lives on the Chinese military remaining on the sidelines.

So there is the "World War III/Last Days" aspect to this scenario:

He is on the way out.

They have a great flag. I would miss them.

Trump is out of control, a total moron, Kim was 100% correct about him, he has zero understanding of what will happen if N. Korea does anything because he has goaded them, or if we do something first. Hundreds of thousands or millions will die. But we don't care. They aren't white Americans.
Meanwhile, Lindsey Graham is getting his rocks off today supporting war. I absolutely despise our country right now. A bunch of men trying to prove they have a bigger dick than the other guy.
God help us.

Or succeeding in proving that they ARE a bigger dick.

If we start doing that, it's time to start praying.

Someone else mentioned if we see McMasters resign..

It's not all out war. What both Trump and Kim Jong-un benefit from most is keeping their respective citizens awash in fear. The best way to do that is with a protracted and tense situation.

Sure changed the news coverage, didn't it?

"our military to wait to see if the missiles are armed with payloads, or whether they will fall on their projected targets, or just nearby?"

So NK launches an unarmed missile that crashes into the ocean and does no damage, and you expect us to unleash a response that may kill tens of thousands, if not more, and plunge the region into the hell of all out war? All over a splash in the ocean?

I for one hope and expect that our military has the sense to wait and see what happens. If it's an actual nuclear attack, launching an immediate counter strike will do nothing to stop it. If it isn't a nuclear attack, or an attack of any type, launching a strike on the spur of the moment would be stupidity of criminal proportions.

Of course, stupidity of criminal proportions is probably the best way to describe the current US administration, so in that sense you may be justified in your expectations.

Let's hope that more rational thinking prevails.

The plan is to launch four Hwasong-12 medium-to-long range ballistic missiles toward Guam.

"The Hwasong-12 rockets to be launched" by the People's Army "will cross the sky above Shimane, Hiroshima and Koichi prefectures of Japan." The commander added, "They will fly for 3,356.7 km for 1,065 seconds and hit the waters 30 to 40 km away from Guam

http://wasabi-now.com/article/075e6e7c96d0d0054dfa65abe827f58d

That rational thinking prevails.