make money doing it.

Link to tweet

Katrina appeared on so many political pundit shows it was hard for me to keep up with her. In my book she was one of the top spokespersons pushing the liberal/progressive point of view.

Oh well.

I remember hearing in the W days, that she was a Russian apologist.

Now that upsets me a lot more

As mentioned above the magazine has a long history of supporting civil rights, against war and for economic justice. I hadn't subscribed in a long time and didn't know the turn it had taken. I was stunned to hear Cohen on a recent show about Russia and the murders of dissidents say that it hadn't been proven Putin was behind them. Yeah, and Hitler's Germany didn't prove the Nazis killed Jews. I just wondered WTF. Now I know. They have a history there of editors serving for decades but it is obviously time for her to go. Thanks for posting.

i don't think it'll survive the embrace of Putin. Really shitty timing.

This was already addressed in another thread, and Katrina responded personally to the OP (see #62):
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029427385

Again, this is the author of her bombshell piece:

I don't even know who Seth Rich is, but I know she allows points of view with which she disagrees. Did you read all of her response? If you feel strongly enough about it, write to her c/o The Nation yourself. When she publishes things I disagree with, she always responds if I let her know. You might want to tone down the negative emotional tone, though. She never uses it herself, and probably won't respond if she feels an inquiry is coming from someone whose mind is already made up about her.

Somehow, I don't think you're that naive and that oblivious to the news:

http://www.npr.org/2017/08/01/540783715/lawsuit-alleges-fox-news-and-trump-supporter-created-fake-news-story

https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2017/08/02/what-seth-rich-conspiracy-theory-why-it-matters-and-why-sean-hannity-must-be-one-pay-price/217498

http://www.newsweek.com/hannity-trump-fox-news-seth-rich-645238

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/the-life-and-death-of-the-seth-rich-conspiracy-theory/2017/05/23/aba640c4-3ff3-11e7-adba-394ee67a7582_story.html

Would you be fine with Katrina publishing a Pizzagate believer? How about a birther screed?

I don't have time to read everything in The Nation, or most publications I get, for that matter. I have a very demanding day job that takes me to a different country every day. I am currently in the States for a short visit, but the purpose of my visit is not for catching up on piles of publications that have accumulated. At her 150th anniversary of the founding gathering, the likes of E.J. Dionne, Raúl Grijalva, Elizabeth Warren, Cecile Richards, Jerry Nadler, Steve Cohen, William Barber and a LOT of etc. came to be with her. None of them mentioned that they went there to celebrate birther theories.

If Katrina wants to publish an article by a nutcase, it's her editorial prerogative as far as I'm concerned. It might be for the purpose of pointing out the nutcase point of view for all I know. If you feel that strongly about it and have so much time on your hands, I suggest you call The Nation far in advance of your next visit to New York City, and arrange a meeting with her. I only get to see her once a year or so, since I live in Europe with a heavy work schedule. You apparently live somewhere in North America, and so would have an easier time arranging a meeting.

That's how journalism works.

and what The Nation published after the KvH editorial which you posted on DU. That's the point - she did not address this in her editorial, because she wrote that on July 27th, and published Patrick Lawrence yesterday.

It is customary to read an OP before replying. And also not to claim that a point has been addressed when it obviously has not been.

"If Katrina wants to publish an article by a nutcase, it's her editorial prerogative as far as I'm concerned."

Well, that's the crux of the OP, isn't it? She's published an article by a nutcase. Why whine that the OP is a hit piece?

Moreover, the latest Trumpian crazy piece she published quite clearly showed no editorial oversight. It was beneath the intelligence of a typical tabloid.

No conscientious editor would have allowed it through. Not only was it crazy, it was incoherent and generally a hot mess.

The Nation is Kompromised when it comes to Russia, mainly becausee the editor is married to the biggest Putin apologist in the Western Hemisphere this side of Donald Trump.

She uses as an excuse in that thread of her being tied to her husband is unfair but she is the editor of the magazine that he has gotten plenty of space in for his articles that have been called Putin apologia by many. He is not respected by the people fighting for human rights in that part of the world. Both of them use the term anti-Russia hysteria when we know the real culprit is not a country or people but the criminal oligarchy headed by Putin and those he surrounds himself with. And she and Cohen know that but are trying to make it about another cold war. It is about the war of the criminal oligarchs around the world (including some in America) against democracy. If they truly reflected the 150 years of the Nation's values they would be on the right side of that fight instead of minimizing what Putin is doing around the world.

As I said in another post, Cohen claims Putin hasn't been proven to be behind the murders and attacks on dissidents as if a court in Russia would do that. Even in vanden Heuvel's response in the thread the best she can say about Putin is yes he is an authoritarian ... but ... and then goes on to condescend to tell us ignorant folks that we need common sense .. I guess that means we are not supposed to worry about the existential threat that Putin, Trump and other criminal authoritarian oligarchs around the world pose to democracy.

And neither you nor her have anything to say about the Seth Rich tin foil hat ties. Also, if people read the comments section of the article Kevin Kresse does a fine job of debunking one of the central claims about bandwidth. Instead of gracing DU with her comments, perhaps she should have spent more time as an editor and had some of the technical material verified by an independent source.

As I wrote, we are at war because of a very determined strategy by Putin and others to take down democracies worldwide through cyber attacks. Articles like the one they published only serve to aid them and our enemies at home.

The tone seemed perfectly vitriolic to me.

And for the third time, I still have no idea who Seth Rich is, though a couple of you seem totally obsessed with this guy. If he's a nut case, there is a chance I glanced at something he wrote and ignored it for the very reasons you mention. I wouldn't remember the name of every crackpot author whose stuff I ignore after the first two sentences, even if it's in The Nation. Katrina supported Sanders last year. I skipped over a LOT of Nation articles at the time, and I never read a lot of them to begin with. Lucky you if you have that much free time on your hands. Those things go on forever.

If you are this obsessed with her work don't whine to me about it. She reads mail sent to her c/o The Nation. I get this same kind angry response from some people for being a friend of Howard Dean, too. Here in Texas (in Dallas for a few days), I get crap for hanging with Cecile Richards. PP is SOOO evil, dontcha know. I got the same for being a 40 year friend of Helen Thomas before she passed. How dare I have friends like that, blah blah. Same old, same old. I'm used to it.

and they had nothing to do with you knowing her; my point was about clouded judgments. You shouldn't mention the words whine or obsession with this response. You keep whining about hit pieces and your suffering when you are obviously ignorant of facts like who Seth Rich is (he was a DNC staffer who was murdered and his death is being used by the RW nutjobs to deflect the hacking story - which you could have looked up in two seconds if you had bothered - and now they have new ammunition to do that thanks to her and the nation).

As far as obsession look in the mirror. You were the one who brought her response to this forum and who obviously likes to point out all of your famous friends and how much you have suffered for knowing them (talk about whining). How about looking up those who have suffered at the hands of Putin - then you can let your buddy and her husband know about them. They obviously have ignored it.

Faux Noose, and especially that ass Sean Hannity had been running with the "Hillary murdered Seth Rich because he leaked those DNC emails to WikiLeaks" meme for months. You probably don't watch Faux Noose, but the Seth Rich story was talked about like it was this giant bombshell, even after tRumputin was installed as our illegitimate president. It's also alleged that tRumputin sociopath/supporter Ed Butowsky told Rod Wheeler that tRumputin gave the go ahead for Faux Noose to run with this fake story. And by the way, it's people like RWNJ Ed Butowsky, a wealthy Texas businessman, and friend of the Mercer Family, who paid to Wheeler to FUEL this lie. Hillary Clinton haters have been obsessed with and hating on Hillary/Bill Clinton for 30 years, spreading lies and false stories (Does Pizzagate ring a bell?). It's a shame that The Nation has allowed that sort of filth to make it into their publication.


Exclusive: The chaos behind the scenes of Fox News' now-retracted Seth Rich story.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/08/10/media/seth-rich-fox-news-timeline/index.html

and to the Nation is really heartbreaking.

In the 90's she is one of the folks to whom I looked up. To have degenerated from calm, lucid and intelligent commentary to apologia for a war crimes committing Putin and baseless and superficial attacks on the Democratic Party is not only sad it is mystifying.

And her attempts to explain that away as merely airing multiple viewpoints doesnt make it. She doesnt air/publish or espouse multiple viewpoints, she and the Nation have an agenda. Why she has morphed into someone having that agenda is what I would like to sort out.

so there was no conflict for her.

Now, there's a conflict between supporting the American left, and sucking up to the swine in Moscow, and she and the mag lean towards the latter.

Keep in mind that her husband is a professional Russophile and Putin-fluffer. It's not politically correct to note this, but spouses do influence each other's political views.

You are a good person and I believe you will want to know about this. However I expect you won't see this as I believe you've left the thread.

A GOP operative and a Fox News producer got the bright idea to concoct a conspiracy theory about Seth Rich's tragic murder in order to take the heat off Donald Trump and Putin.

There is ZERO evidence for the claims they made. This is not a "Point of View", it is an absolute lie.

Hannity was the face of this conspiracy on Fox and there were alleged leftists like TYT's Jimmy Dore that promoted it too. It was all over social media as well. Right wingers and self-identified "leftists" were all over twitter promoting this conspiracy. They still are to this day.

Seth's family were tormented by all of this, but these liars did not care.

The theory they concocted to goes like this:

- Seth Rich was the True Leaker of DNC emails. Russia had nothing to do with it
- The DNC or possibly HILLARY CLINTON HERSELF had Seth Rich MURDERED! to silence him.

So Poor Donald Trump and Poor Putin, smeared by evil murderous loser Democrats.

Katrina has changed a lot from who she used to be. Was a big admirer.

Cecile Richards and Howard Dean have integrity and have nothing to do with this. Please don't smear them.

You provided a concise explanation of who Seth Rich was, so I did read your reply.

I don't, would not ever, smear Cecile or Howard. Nor Katrina, for that matter. Friendship is a lot less superficial for me than that. Despite geographical obstacles, the circle of people in Katrina's range is relatively small. If someone like Elizabeth Warren or Cecile has anything to say about something Katrina publishes, have no fear that either one of them would let her know in no uncertain terms. I'm sure she's on speed dial with them, too.

The Nation and Katrina are not behind some Trumpian Mexican wall. They are accessible, and do read comments on what they publish, especially if they are in disagreement from the left. I have a few Russian friends and speak passable Russian. She is fluent, and has dozens, maybe hundreds of Russian friends. She lived there for years, and when Gorbachev invites people to his birthday party, Katrina is on the list, not me. I count on her to know the place and players better than I do. By the same token, she pumps me for info on Germany, France, Spain, Belgium and Holland because that's where I live and work and speak the local languages. Bernie Sanders had left her with the impression that medical care was free in Germany, and that there were no uninsured. My wife, a German social worker, set the record straight there. If there is someone on DU who is more intimately familiar with Russia and speaks the language, I doubt she would turn away an opposing point of view. If it's factual and logical, she might print it. Even I have been published in The Nation before (not as an LTTE), so this is not a fantasy.

I see no reason to attempt to act as some kind of email conduit for her here. Anyone is welcome to write her directly (hint--if you want an answer, check your anger at the door). She hears from all kinds of people. If Cecile or Sen. Warren disagree with something Katrina writes, believe me they will let her know, and she will listen. If her door is open to me, it is WIDE open to them. One time, one of her writers did a long article on Catalunya and the separatist movement. I saw something in there I thought was an error. Katrina knows I have lived there, go back about once a month, and speak Catalan. She acknowledged my comment and took note of it. Knowing her, she probably took it up with the author of the article. As I said before, I only have time to skim the Nation when I get it, so I don't know if there was a published correction. She is not on some high horse, either. When I saw that one OP about the Nation, I sent her the whole thread and asked if she might give a response. She took the time and did. How many other non-DU people of her stature and prominence take the time to do that? On a one-to-one basis she certainly hasn't changed at all. I would encourage you to list the changes in her that you perceive, put them in an email to her c/o the Nation, say you were encouraged to write by her Texas DU friend who lives in Germany, explain your worries/concerns in a rational, logical manner, and see if you get a response. I can't promise one, since I have no clue how you would phrase your comments, but you can be sure that someone there will read it, and probably pass it on to Katrina.

By the way, thanks for the info on who Seth Rich was. Back home, our neighbors to the west (otherwise known as France) recently had a hugely important election, and Merkel is up (actually her party, as she is Chancellor, not a president) for re-election in the fall. So I have been paying more attention to that than anything Fox Noise is promoting. Since we don't get U.S. TV where I live, Fox isn't even on my radar unless someone sends me a "must see" link.

talking about your personal life and the wonderful relationships you have with famous people then your reply might have had value. Repeating the line that we can write to her (mentioning you of course would help get her attention) didn't add anything.

BTW, I doubt you'll read it but if you want to know why people on here are so angry about the magazine and this latest piece, here is a great takedown of the sorry Nation article, its editor and Cohen:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/8/11/1688482/-Russia-stooges-on-the-Left-go-to-even-greater-lengths-to-cover-up-the-attack-on-our-Democracy

The personal stuff takes no time at all and requires no research. The other stuff does. Sorry if that raises hackles, but "Get a Life" can't be enforced in a court of law, I suppose. Coventina didn't ask me not to publish Katrina's reply. If she had, I would have left it right there. I thought she might be interested in a response from the person she was referring to, and indeed she was. No one required you to read it.

If I have time, though I will check out the article. It certainly seems to have a few people in a fit over it, anyway. I'll look for articles under the rubrik "sorry."

Value is in the eye of the beholder. I don't recall asking you or anyone else to bow down to Mecca chanting my name. There is life outside of a blog, even this one. You don't have to take my word for it, of course............

I understand that it is easier and more interesting to talk about yourself rather than take two or three minutes (considerably less time than you have spent responding here) to read an article relevant to the diuscussion but give it a try. Hopefully it won't tire you out too much and you might actually have something worthwhile to share with us and your good friend.

This guy Lawrence appears on the surface to be like the fictional Nicholai Hel's description of his interrogator and torturer, "Major Diamond," in that that he has taken some facts and made some ridiculous conclusions from them. I am frankly surprised at the number of DK posts that agree with Lawrence, but that's because I don't.

As editor of The Nation, I would not have run the piece, and I suspect that some major blowback did not go unnoticed, since at the end, the Nation (presumably Katrina herself, as Editor) ran the following:

Editor’s note: After publication, the Democratic National Committee contacted The Nation with a response, writing, “U.S. intelligence agencies have concluded the Russian government hacked the DNC in an attempt to interfere in the election. Any suggestion otherwise is false and is just another conspiracy theory like those pushed by Trump and his administration. It’s unfortunate that The Nation has decided to join the conspiracy theorists to push this narrative.”

I would hope that all those who roundly criticized the Lawrence article in The Nation on DU were also among those who raised their voices with similar vehemence on DK, and either were or are busy sending similar comments to The Nation directly. Fifty eloquently composed criticisms from unknown parties will certainly carry more weight than one known party (me) playing post office. Get to work and make your voice heard.

The entire tone of the Nation has changed too much for me. And it has had such a long, illustrious history!

Me too.

My online subscription went bye buy several years ago when I started seeing what I thought were "weird" articles being written, and when the slant of what was written there was going too far the other way for MY taste. OMG, and Katrina's husband is such a putin lover/apologist.

Katrina's of no use to me either at this point. I've seen her being interviewed and she turns me OFF. Even all of my friends who used to have subscriptions to The Nation have allowed them to lapse, and those following her on twitter have un-followed her.

I guess if tRumputin starts a war with North Korea and hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians (Americans included) end up DEAD, she and her husband will probably be blaming Pres. Obama and maybe call Hillary a war mongerer--just like tRuputin STAYS doing.

Those 2 can go take a hike.

The jig is up, except with the most gullible among us.

The Nation is operating like a Putin house organ. Fuck them.

taken a hit since the last election.

Mother Jones, the NY Times, and MSNBC in the meantime are crushing it.

That was once the longest running leftist periodical in America. I subscribed to it for years.
I am glad I don't anymore.

It's becoming extremely difficult to distinguish those purporting to be leftists with alt-right, White Nationalists: the same defenses of authoritarianism, the same denial of copious evidence about Russian intervention, the same defenses of Trump and opposition to equal rights. I think we are increasingly seeing a re-shifting of political alliances, away from left vs. right toward nationalist vs. liberal globalist.

This is of course not meant to extend to everyone identifying themselves as leftist, but there is a very disturbing undercurrent.

Your observations are spot on, but I don't think the new 'alt-left' is anything but trolling hard righters.

I think the the global peon class (us) is on the brink of serious pushback against poverty, environmental destruction, lack of representation, and filled with desperation as the have mores get more, and we all get less

The hard right has always tried to infiltrate and destroy organization and movements of the underclasses

My sentiments exactly. Thank you for this thread!

The biggest Soviet/Russian apologist of the past 35 years!

What is the appeal? His record (and direct actions) on the human-rights front alone are abominable. He has had people poisoned and tossed from high-rise apartments, for Christ's sake.

How bad is Putin? He's the ONLY human on Earth that Trump handles with kid gloves and that weird admiration-bromance-thing he has for dictators. Putin is actually a worse leader than Trump (right now, anyway, but it's certain that Donnie is envious).

The Nation has always been a right wing rag.

All agenda, zero credibility or efforts to practice journalism.

Patrick Lawrence is loyal to Russia, not the USA.

Right? So sick...

Gotcha.

Last edited Fri Aug 11, 2017, 12:52 PM - Edit history (1)

In fact, I think it should be mandatory to read at least some things you find objectionable. How else can you have a well-considered opinion on anything if you don't know what other people say or think?

I usually learn something that I hadn't considered before. I read both Mother Jones and the Economist (despite disagreeing a lot with the liberal economic position regarding trade and markets).

I read the Nation primarily for their progressive economics.

just utter crap. The Nation goes dumpster-diving for its pro-Russia agitprop pieces. The lack of editorial standards is a big problem.

Its good to read many publications not rely on a narrow path , there is a lot more to life ............ The nation is a great publication .

It's been years since I had a subscription and I'm not feeling a need now, but I don't recall it ever being so narrow-minded that it would satisfy left-wing demand for a right wing-style bubble.

Last Fall.

They are about as progressive as fucking Jill Stein and JPR.

It reminds me of extreme left grouplets, this aiming of fire at this or that nominally leftist figure.

I won't have anything to do with them, and I change the channel if Katrina comes on to talk.

Glad more people are noticing...

So we've lost The Nation, The Young Turks, who's the next liberal outlet to make a heel turn?