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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsShut up!
Just shut the fuck up!
The 2016 election is OVER. Bernie Sanders lost. Jill Stein lost. Anyone who might be reading here who didn't vote for Hillary in the GE because of *reasons* is not going to give a shit what you have to say.
Hillary lost. Maybe some who voted for Sanders and/or Stein would have been OK with that at the time, or maybe they thought things couldn't possibly go so fucking sideways that Donald Fucking Trump might actually get elected. Either way, it's likely they're regretting their "principled stance" now, just like those who voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 almost universally regretted that after Bush won.
If you care at all about this country - and I presume we all do, given the emphasis behind all of the vitriol being spewed in every direction around here - you HAVE to recognize that whining and complaining that your favored candidate was given a raw deal is not going to do a goddamn thing to help whichever candidates we trot out there in 2018 and 2020.
Do have my own feeling about what went wrong? Yes. Do I harbor some ill will towards those people and systems that allows those things to go wrong? Of course I do. But it's not going to do any good to come onto an Internet message board and spew bile about it. If you do, that post will have three types of people reading it: those who fervently agree (hello echo chamber), those who vehemently disagree (hello circular firing squad), and those who are sick and tired of hearing people complain and want us to solve the goddamn problems that got us into this mess in the first place.
So if you're here just to bash Sanders/Stein/Clinton and those who voted for them and didn't vote for your candidate, SHUT THE FUCK UP. Come back when you're ready to be a part of taking back the House in 2018, and the Senate and White House in 2020. (Yes, I recognize that technically we could take the Senate in 2018, but given that the Dems hold the vast majority of the seats up for grabs next year, the math says it's going to be a real challenge to add seats.)
True Dough
(17,320 posts)you should have the Dalai Lama as your avatar?
This reminds me of the recent tweet I saw, which said "Nuke North Korea and turn it into a parking lot. They deserve it."
The name on the twitter account was "peaceandjoyandjesus"
Weekend Warrior
(1,301 posts)Time passes unhindered. When we make mistakes, we cannot turn the clock back and try again. All we can do is use the present well. Dalai Lama
Eliot Rosewater
(31,121 posts)and possibly the world
so FUCK OFF 3rd party voters, each and EVERY single FUCKING ONE OF YOU
oasis
(49,408 posts)Eliot Rosewater
(31,121 posts)America is gone, that much is clear (judgeship's alone, we are done) the question is do we all die, yes or no.
Unknown at this moment in time
Hopefully true patriots, i.e. liberals and democrats are NOW as angry as I have been since election day
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)If all or most of the Johnson and McMullin voters voted Republican Party, we wouldn't even have the popular vote.
standingtall
(2,787 posts)pretty liberal issue. I suspect he probably got quite a few liberals and no 3rd party candidates didn't help Hilary win the popular vote.
aikoaiko
(34,183 posts)I think it is unlikely that over 2 million were HRC voters otherwise.
TheBlackAdder
(28,211 posts)If there were no 3rd Parties, Trump would have won by a wider margin in swing states and might have taken the popular vote.
MineralMan
(146,329 posts)I'm STFUing right fucking now!
P.S.: Your avatar would probably counsel a softer approach, I think.
wysimdnwyg
(2,233 posts)about a half dozen times in the past decade (and this might be my first original post in that time). As for my avatar, well, everyone gets pissed off on occasion. While my goal is to be more like the Dalai Lama, it's a constant challenge and sometimes I'm not as close as I'd like to be.
eleny
(46,166 posts)Buddhists can surprise you sometimes.
LisaM
(27,830 posts)I'd love to be introduced to one of those people, because the Nader voters I know are intransigent and completely refuse to admit that Nader had any effect on the 2000 election at all.
wysimdnwyg
(2,233 posts)Yes, I voted for Nader in 2000, and no, it didn't change a damn thing in my state (Tennessee), where Bush won handily. That said, I recognize that I was naive, as were many, many others who voted for Nader out of principle to the idea that the DLC had steered the party too far in favor of the rich and corporations. We (I'll use that pronoun with the full understanding that I do not necessarily speak for anyone else) mistakenly believed that Gore would win hands down, so a vote out of principle would mean little in the short term, but would perhaps send a message to the party that a segment of Democratic voters had had enough of the neoliberal philosophy.
And once again, as I'm sure the data would show, the vast majority of those who refused to vote for Hillary because she isn't - or wasn't perceived to be - "liberal enough", were young and had not experienced the regret many of us who voted for Nader felt after the fiasco of Florida in 2000 was over. For the record, I swore after 2000 to vote for whoever the Democrats run in every single national election regardless of whether I believe they're "liberal enough" or just "better than the alternative", because I thought Bush was a real eye opener. Now many of those who stayed home or voted for Stein are having their own epiphanies. There's no need to continue rubbing salt in their wounds, regardless of how much anyone may blame them. There's plenty of blame to go around, and I suspect most of them aren't feeling that great about the ramifications of their principled stand now.
The point - my avatar not withstanding - is that many people are tired of the constant bickering, regardless of whether it's the Bernie-backers (I refuse to use the now-insult term "Bernie-bros" complaining about Hillary's "terrible campaign" or the Hilliary-backers constant bashing of Sanders and Stein and their voters. Both sides are guilty, and both sides should stop so we can focus on the job at hand.
LisaM
(27,830 posts)I have a few Nader-voting friends and we just don't discuss it at this point.
wysimdnwyg
(2,233 posts)For many, I'm sure it's a bit embarrassing to admit. And only more so to admit we were wrong (even if only in thinking our principled stand would not change the outcome of the election).
LisaM
(27,830 posts)I thought there was more than a dime's worth of difference between Bush and Gore; moreover, I deeply admired Gore and really wanted him to be President.
I think the Green party is going about it wrong; they need to start local and really work in favor of an actual Green agenda that can be a swing vote on city councils, in state legislatures, etc. Instead, they seem bent on recruiting people who (to me) are harsh and unbending and who don't reflect what I understand to be the stated objectives of the Greens, which is climate and energy conservation.
wysimdnwyg
(2,233 posts)If they want to amount to anything at all (other than spoiler), they should do it at the local level. National politics are too polarized for a small platform group to make appreciable inroads, but a candidate focusing on one or two issues can succeed in city and county elections. As for the persona, sadly that has become true IMO. Their ambition for a national presence has pushed them to recruit people who are willing to get in the face of voters to get attention, but in the long run, the people who might vote for them are more likely to be put off by that attitude.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)10 bucks that Stein scammed from Democratic voters distraught over the election results, plus whatever Putin payed her. She has refused to turn over financial records to the Senate Intelligence committee. She obviously has something to hide.
They also played a significant role in the GE by helping get Trump elected. The whole disaster has been a win/win for Stein.
WinkyDink
(51,311 posts)listen to reason then) who TELLS THEM NOW TO STFU.
BETTER YOU SHOULD KEEP THAT TAIL TUCKED AND YOURSELF STFU.
I say that with all due respect.
question everything
(47,534 posts)and if I am on the jury I will vote to keep it. This is a discussion board. Either ignore and let it sink, or debate.
tblue37
(65,488 posts)Last edited Fri Aug 11, 2017, 05:12 PM - Edit history (1)
I figured out "What you see is . . . not what you get," but what does the "md" stand for? (Just curious.)
wysimdnwyg
(2,233 posts)(You're one of the few who was around back when I posted enough to have to answer this question)
tblue37
(65,488 posts)BainsBane
(53,066 posts)is my guess.
Justice
(7,188 posts)Initech
(100,102 posts)Otherwise we'll just keep digging that hole!
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)Invite Steve Bannon to tea. WTF?
How the hell does placating the right help Democrats win?
Initech
(100,102 posts)Did you see Jim Jeffries this week? He was so right when he said that the democrats have a serious branding problem.
The republicans won and keep winning because they have a clear, concise message and they stick with it.
What I'm saying is we need to stop fighting with each other, unite, and come up with a clear, concise message and stick with it. Otherwise...
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)You don't own me, and I don't need your permission or approval to say whatever I want.
I will not shut up. I intend to denounce fascism and fascists, and if that pisses you off, so be it.
Your claims are specious, demonstrably untrue. Stein/ratfuck voters do not regret their choice. They make excuses for Trump, even today. They are apologists for Putin and his attack on American democracy, denying that evidence of interference even exists. They will go to any lengths to cover for Trump and his puppet master Putin for one reason: They want him as President. They continue to spread Kremlin propaganda even today. That isn't over. They are doing all the same things they did that helped make Trump president, and it is completely intentional.
Even now, they lie by saying Clinton would have been more bellicose and threatening than Trump. They will say and do anything to justify the fascist they put in office, and whom they fully intend to KEEP in office.
If they regretted their decision, they would say so. They have not. Not only that, they have renewed threats to do everything in their power to deliver upcoming elections to the GOP. They have said publicly that they have NO INTENTION of voting Democrat in the future. Some have publicly announced they plan to work to put MORE Republicans in office.
This has fuck all to do with Bernie or the primary. Those people use Bernie as an excuse. Bernie urged his supporters to vote for Hillary. The ratfuck contingent refused, and they use him as a justification for their hatred of Democratic voters. It's possible they never had any intention of voting for Bernie in the GE but simply used him as cover for their assault on the Democratic Party and its voters.
Despite their rhetoric, their targets are NEVER banks or corporations but always the poor and the marginalized, as well as candidates who come from those groups. Note their internet bullying campaigns are ALWAYS directed at women and people of color. They claim to be on the left but are indistinguishable from the alt-right, with whom they are actively seeking alliances. They prefer the White Supremacists over the Democratic Party. Doesn't that tell you there is no way in hell they are ever going to ally with a Democratic Party that is not segregationist?
They are allied with the GOP in voter disenfranchisement efforts. They deny that any such disenfranchisement exists, deliberately giving cover for racist voter purges. Not only that, they are seeking to extend disfranchisement efforts into the Democratic party by seeking to replace primaries with caucuses, a deliberate effort to keep the poor, people of color, the elderly, and disabled from voting. They show utter contempt for the Democratic Party, its leadership but more than that its voters.
They don't recognize they made a mistake. They promote and defend the fascist in the WHouse at every opportunity and have said they fully intend to do everything to ensure that Democrats are defeated UNLESS they bend the knee to them, abandon the rights of the majority, undermine equal rights, and reorient itself around the privilege of the white bourgeoisie. In short, they are demanding the Democratic Party remake adopt GOP/Trump policies and values. Fuck that and fuck them.
Anyone who does regret a vote for Stein, Trump, or a Third Party candidate, I welcome their future votes for Democrats. (I do not, however, welcome demands to control a party they did not vote) . I have no intention of interrogating people on their prior voting behavior when I work on get the vote out efforts. But that is not what we are dealing with now. We are dealing with fascist collaborators who continue to defend the Fascist in Chief and are committed to getting him reelected. Just because they claim to be progressive or leftist doesn't make it so. Actions are what matter. Fascism is as fascism does.
And I sure as hell am not going to lay down for fascists because you entertain some fantasy that they are just misunderstood.
Motownman78
(491 posts)nini
(16,672 posts)Thank you
nocalflea
(1,387 posts)nini
(16,672 posts)I've been bitching about primaries, candidates and repukes on DU practically since day one. I'm not gonna stop now.
AlexSFCA
(6,139 posts)Sanders folks are very defensive. I know a bunch of them. Bernie is not in the business of uniting our party even after the election. You don't need to convince Clinton voters of anything. We are strategic, pragmatic and realistic, we are not looking for perfect candidates, we want to win. We are one-two SC justices away from overthrowing democracy in the US. And they are talking about free college; different priorities now. It's die hard Bernie supporters that need to do some self reflection and learn before 2018 that everything is a compromise and changes are slow when they go through democratic process. Virtually all Clinton primary voters would have voted for Bernie if he had won the primary. But so many Bernie supporters took the Putin's bait and got obsessed with DNC emails leaks via Kremlin's wikileaks; they propgated exact same talking points as trump, faux news and russian propaganda media. Just think about it. Sanders brought toxic populism into the Democratic party base and we are to face its consequences for years to come. I will never forget his vote on russia sanctions.
haveahart
(905 posts)not repeat mistakes of the past.