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kpete

(71,996 posts)
Tue Aug 15, 2017, 10:16 PM Aug 2017

NYT: "There is no such thing as the 'alt-left.'"

The New York Times today:

Researchers who study extremist groups in the United States say there is no such thing as the “alt-left.” Mark Pitcavage, an analyst at the Anti-Defamation League, said the word had been made up to create a false equivalence between the far right and “anything vaguely left-seeming that they didn’t like.”

Some centrist liberals have taken to using this term.

“It did not arise organically, and it refers to no actual group or movement or network,” Mr. Pitcavage said in an email. “It’s just a made-up epithet, similar to certain people calling any news they don’t like ‘fake news.’”


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/15/us/politics/alt-left-alt-right-glossary.html?smid=fb-nytimes&smtyp=cur&mtrref=www.dailykos.com&gwh=42040BFD0845A9AFB3F5C07C5B7FEF69&gwt=pay
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2017/8/15/1690104/-NYT-There-is-no-such-thing-as-the-alt-left

21 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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NYT: "There is no such thing as the 'alt-left.'" (Original Post) kpete Aug 2017 OP
Similar to the "liberal media" Caliman73 Aug 2017 #1
K & R 'cos it's important n/t TubbersUK Aug 2017 #2
I do see "alt-left" used often around here to attack people who do not follow others beliefs. TheBlackAdder Aug 2017 #3
People who use that term do nothing temporary311 Aug 2017 #5
Considering that there ARE rules here -- and ways to get banned FiveGoodMen Aug 2017 #7
Most post remain, just search for the entries. TheBlackAdder Aug 2017 #9
Reincarnation Warren DeMontague Aug 2017 #15
I've seen it too. Solly Mack Aug 2017 #14
K&R GaryCnf Aug 2017 #4
From libertarian Cato Institute.... Roland99 Aug 2017 #6
15 killed since 2016? watrwefitinfor Aug 2017 #10
Yeah, no shit. nt Guy Whitey Corngood Aug 2017 #8
I live in SF -- Hell Hath No Fury Aug 2017 #11
Yes trump lied about the alt left Gothmog Aug 2017 #12
I told my mom that today. She thought it might be a thing based ecstatic Aug 2017 #13
Exactly. Like "Berniebro", it's a way to conveniently handwave away a large group of diverse people Warren DeMontague Aug 2017 #16
Thanks for this. nt Flying Squirrel Aug 2017 #17
DURec leftstreet Aug 2017 #18
K&R! G_j Aug 2017 #19
The Right has tried for years to rewrite history .. Hieronymus Aug 2017 #20
And we've let them FiveGoodMen Aug 2017 #21

Caliman73

(11,738 posts)
1. Similar to the "liberal media"
Tue Aug 15, 2017, 10:19 PM
Aug 2017

It can mean anything that people want it to mean and typically right wingers intend it to mean anything that is not explicitly conservative. We can have disagreements about candidates and primaries. We should have robust debates about what Democrats stand for. What we should never do is adopt the language of the right to beat each other with.

FiveGoodMen

(20,018 posts)
7. Considering that there ARE rules here -- and ways to get banned
Tue Aug 15, 2017, 10:42 PM
Aug 2017

I'm disappointed that anyone can use the term alt-left here and continue posting.

Roland99

(53,342 posts)
6. From libertarian Cato Institute....
Tue Aug 15, 2017, 10:39 PM
Aug 2017
https://www.cato.org/blog/terrorism-deaths-ideology-charlottesville-anomaly

"Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists are the second deadliest group of terrorists by ideology and account for 228 murders and 6.9 percent of all terrorist deaths. The chance of being murdered in a Nationalist or Right Wing terrorist attack was 1 in 33 million per year. The 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, the second deadliest terrorist attack in U.S. history after 9/11, killed 168 people and accounted for 74 percent of the murders committed by Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists. Left Wing terrorists killed only 19 people in terrorist attacks during this time but 15 since 2016. Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists have only killed 5 since then, including Charlottesville. Meanwhile, the annual chance of being murdered by a Left Wing terrorist was about 1 in 400 million per year. Regardless of the recent upswing in deaths from Left Wing terrorism since 2016, Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists have killed about 12 times as many people since 1992. Terrorists with unknown or other motivations were the least deadly"

watrwefitinfor

(1,399 posts)
10. 15 killed since 2016?
Tue Aug 15, 2017, 10:59 PM
Aug 2017

" Left Wing terrorists killed only 19 people in terrorist attacks during this time [since 9/11] but 15 since 2016."

What on earth are they calling "left wing" attacks? Who was killed in all these "left wing" attacks, and why didn't they make the news?

Is there some left wing organization (since the ones who kidnapped Patty Hearst, and I don't really think they were all that leftish) going around killing people?

What am I missing?

Wat

 

Hell Hath No Fury

(16,327 posts)
11. I live in SF --
Tue Aug 15, 2017, 11:02 PM
Aug 2017

if there were an "alt-left" it would be here and I would be seeing it. The Black Bloc, which I have seen for decades here at literally every march I have ever been to (they're like the old Hollywood saw -- they'll show up at the opening of an envelope) are the closest thing I have seen but I think their agenda (from my experience here) is more pure disruption that any true Leftist ideology.

ecstatic

(32,707 posts)
13. I told my mom that today. She thought it might be a thing based
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 01:17 AM
Aug 2017

on Trump's unhinged presser. I told her there is no alt-left. For me, it describes the (russian? ) troll- left who wish to sow division among democrats.

Warren DeMontague

(80,708 posts)
16. Exactly. Like "Berniebro", it's a way to conveniently handwave away a large group of diverse people
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 01:42 AM
Aug 2017

and their opinions, by lumping them into one single, easily dismissed category.

And most importantly, without having to address any of the policy points they may be arguing.

FiveGoodMen

(20,018 posts)
21. And we've let them
Wed Aug 16, 2017, 01:03 PM
Aug 2017

Fox, hate radio, the mega-churches...

We need the 1st Amendment, but we also need -- not want, NEED -- to counter propaganda.

The Fairness Doctrine should never have been eliminated. Equal time would have helped immensely in the last couple of decades.

We also need to do something about outright lies. Those need to be punished. And the record needs to be set straight.

Perhaps, at one time, it seemed reasonable to suppose that the 'free marketplace of ideas' would eventually sort things out.

Anyone who still believes that is an utter fool.

Recent history makes it clear that name calling and bullying influences more people than reasonable discussion.

The future of the US and of democracy in general depends upon our solving this problem.

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