Completely different from Russian interference in the internal affairs of the US.

See Monroe Doctrine, and Carter Doctrine, and Bush Doctrine.

Whataboutism is a logical fallacy for a reason.

This isn't "Whataboutism".... but unintended consequences. Plus the overthrow of the democratically elected President of Iran/Persia.. something my wife's family had to flee... was hardly the only one, just ask Central and South America. We developed a reputation from the past and are now dealing with it today.

The point of the post was the sins of the US Government in the past has resulted in many of our problems today. You and I can say, forget about it, this was all in the past.... but, that's naive. Right here in our own country we are still dealing with the repercussions of the Civil War. How on earth do we expect other nations to "let go" from our actions that post date from World War 2. Shit, in Russia they still note that the US invaded and occupied Vladivostok and still hold a grudge over it...yet you are lucky to find a footnote in any of our history books about it.

Yes, Russia's interference in our election was wrong. But I guaran-damn-tee you many other nations are privately cheering it on and saying "now you know how it feels". Again, I'm not condoning it, but I am understanding it.

Furthermore, my view, one, we make sure our elections are less susceptible to foreign interference...that means overturning citizens united, etc. Two, we work on our reputation and do not actively intervene in another nations politics and accept the results. No matter how bad the choice, they have to own it.

People can choose to be upset for any reason they want.

65 years later means 80% or more of the folks alive at the time are no longer alive. Many of those who are still alive weren't even adults. That means very few who are alive now were in a position to even experience what happened in a meaningful way.

People pushing this are in one of three categories:

1. People whose default mode is to blame the US for everything. Or as Orwell described it, negative nationalists with the US as their chosen antagonists.

2. People who have various reasons why they want to excuse Russia meddling in our election

3. BOTH

But it is a narrow viewpoint. People who have been wronged often transmit their disdain over generations. If we use your reasoning, then the Armenians should just get over the Armenian Genocide because hey, it was certainly over 65 years ago and most who survived it are long since dead. So their grand kids are just negative nationalists to the Turks.

Would be justifued today and bringing up hitler as the reason.

Germany was severely punished for it's actions. History seems to be a poor spot in this thread, so you might not know that Germany was deviatated, sacked and left to root for years. It was torn in two and used as the border for a cold war, the cold war.

Germans responsible we're hunted down and executed, and not even at 90 were they safe.

No one in the overthrow was punished, and the us policy of intervention has gone on for far too long. The chickens have just started to come home to roost, let's hope they aren't as bad as what Germany went through.

I wouldn't call anything done in response as severe.

A huge response.

Iran nothing happened.

Germany ceased to be for 40 years, those responsible we're hunted down and executed.

What more do you suggest? And where are you coming from? Is your motivation based on an internet argument, or personal history?

Your comparison is poor, and it's drifting into exploitation.

Americans have to be punished by russia for what the us did in vietnam and Iran when they or their family was in iran and vietnam ?

You're number is low, it's close to 12 million, so whatever you're thinking double it.

Yes? I mean again, using your logic, no-one alive today on the South owned a slave, so it's all good then, right?

This sort of hatred lasts for CENTURIES, whether a person was actually alive to experience it themselves or not, illegal conquest of a nation, or an individual human being, lasts pretty much forever, ask the Irish how they feel about the Brits, or the Serbs and the Croats...or the Armenians and the Turks...

And people brought up slavery or other past wrongs to excuse it.

They said. .

"65 years later means 80% or more of the folks alive at the time are no longer alive. Many of those who are still alive weren't even adults. That means very few who are alive now were in a position to even experience what happened in a meaningful way."

So according to that logic, slavery is over and done with, and people just need to move on...

Would have to include excusing something today because of slavery.

For example ken Blackwell and his actions.

This thread is about Iran and our misdeeds there, coupled with the long memory of its people. You should check the thread title. The individual in question made it about Russia due to a quip remark. And tried nullify past deeds with a simple generality that wasn't grounded in the reality of the world today.

No one here is defending Russia's meddling in our elections. It was wrong, period.. But this is...well was...until the Russia-phobes changed it, about Iran and the consequences of our actions in Iran. A nation, if we left well enough alone, less fanatical than Saudi Arabia and could have been a significant ally if it wasn't for greed by BP. It appears you are stating it was okay for us to meddle in other governments and implying that the chain reaction of history affecting today should just be dismissed.

It was drawing an uncomfortable parallel, and it seems to have worked expertly.

That anyone thinks that makes sense is a disturbing commentary on people's ability to think logically.

No where did I see a statement that explicitly stated because we've interfered in the past with other governments, it was ok for Russia to do the same for us. I interpreted it very differently as in we have people who defend our misdeeds while being hypocritical and condemning when it comes around to bite us in the ass. And it appears that we do.

No nation has any business in interfering the internal affairs of another nation, even if you think its to their detriment. Crimes against humanity is the only exception.

And the irony in this thread, you have people who state and agree with you what Russia did was categorically wrong, no one is defending it. But you and another say there is, all because, you saw the word "Russia". Have to wonder, if I make a thread about Pinochet and draw a parallel with the Soviet Union and North Korea, are you going to say I'm defending the Soviet Union and North Korea? My vacation isn't coming soon enough.....

The only logic demonstrated is that Us actions are outside of history and presumed to be motivated by the best intentions. Ask the Vietnamese about that.

These people deserve to be punished by russia becsuse of what the us did in iran and vietnam when they or their family were in iran and vietnam.......

look hypocritical, doesn't it? especially since iran was hardly the only time.

to focus 1) only on Iran and 2)"who was around" then. As if living under the shah's brutal regime meant nothing. As if Iran was the only place and only time we have interfered in another country's politics, for our own benefit.

Did

Most of these people immigrated after the coup.

So is it payback for them to have their election fuckef with ?

You think that last week's actions are in isolation, and completely separate from the civil war? From WWII? Perhaps you should read up on history and consequences.

Was forced to hack the US because of Iran.

Did you forget the sarcasm?

It's not about justification, it's cause and effect. Empathy. Putting yourself in the shoes of other countries and seeing the bully get his cumopance.

Are iranian americans who immigrated to the us after the US overthrew the leader in the 50s bullies who deserved russia hacking their election ?

I don't find your position empathetic at all. I find it cruel.

You admit that the US has done some henious things in the past, but you argue that because some have done worse, and besides that was ages ago, that there is absolutely no reason for it.

You've just excused the last 150 years of our meddling in others affairs. That's beyond cruel.

The first reply to this thread was making excuses for russia.

You've spent a lot of energy twisting it that way, and going straight to Nazi to do so, but you've just been excusing us behavior.

There is no love lost between the poster in question and myself, but his sarcastic statement has been twisted and abused in cruel ways.

Your non-sequitorial outbursts distract from any point you may be trying to make.

Germany was punished for what it did. In your opinion it wasn't enough, but that doesn't change historical fact.

truthful comparison.

because it occurred a certain number of years ago?

How about the US/Saudi interference in Yemen? Continuing today.

How about the US interference/support for Israel in Palestine? Continuing today.

And let us not forget Chile, and Haiti, and nearly every country in Central and South America.

The only fallacy demonstrated here is people ignoring what the US has done for its entire history and assuming that the victims of such interference have forgotten the interference.

Not everyone can or will rewrite history to suit the needs of Americans.

it is a recognition that such interference is practiced by many powerful countries. So if one condemns it, that condemnation must extend to every instance of such interference. Correct?

but an acknowledgement that empires behave to a different standard that that which they require of weaker countries.

They don't excuse unrelated events by other countries. It's even more bizarre and irrational when the acts are unrelated countries separated by many decades.

Bangs head.

Pakistan better prepare for some more shock doctrine policies

Exactly what people do who want to ensure mass murder goes unchallenged. They do so under the pretext that those deaths aren't bad if the US doesn't commit them.

The ONLY people who justify mass murder around here and the ones covering for authoritarian regimes outside of the US. The whataboutisms are intended to undermine the moral authority of anyone who dares to raise objections to genocide, gassing of children, mass murder, or foreign invasions. In the process, the ensure the authoritarian regimes they skill for are able to kill without consequences.

Human beings of conscience don't feel the need to justify mass murder. They don't seek to undermine efforts to stop it. They are capable of maintaining objections to all mass murders and all illegal interventions--whether against Mossedegh, Arbenz, or the Ukraine--not just ones committed by countries they despise, like the US, while excusing those by the authoritarian despots they revere, like Assad, Putin, and Kim Jong Il.

But the punishment for past us crimes must be inflicted on those who had little say in those days or were not even here.

The russian hack meant to hurt one side mainly .

cooked up that plan.

He tried to get Truman to overthrow the gov't but Truman actually studied the issue and said no. Kermit and the Dulles brother acted as soon as Ike was elected. Sad day.

Whataboutism is ridiculous no matter how it is justified.

This was initially an action that was started by England to benefit England, btw. The idea was to end England's wish to rebuild their empire.

and Guatemala in 56 and of course Allende in Chili, Patrice Lemumba in the Congo, etc., etc.