General Discussion

alp227

(32,036 posts) Sun Jul 15, 2012, 12:02 AM Jul 2012

Florida TV station did investigative report exposing non-citizen voters...thoughts?

I was snooping at certain websites earlier this year and discovered this investigative story by Andy Pierrotti of the Fort Myers, Fla. NBC station WBBH. It was from February 2012. Pierrotti discovered thru jury excusal forms that some non-citizens living in Florida registered to vote and have voted and concluded:

County supervisors of elections tell me they have no way to verify citizenship. Under the 1992 Motor Voter Law, they're not required to ask for proof.

"We have no policing authority. We don't have any way of bouncing that information off any other database that would give us that information," said Lee County Supervisor of Elections Sharon Harrington.

NBC2: Does that need to change??
Harrington: "I think it needs to be looked at."

Until that happens, the only way supervisors of elections can investigate voter fraud is if they get a tip.

So that's what our list became. After showing them the nearly 100 names we compiled, both county election offices sent letters to each voter, asking them verify citizenship.

Yep. In two counties (Lee and Collier, a combined population of near a million), the reporter found just 100 non-citizens registered to vote, and obviously not all of those 100 people actually have cast ballots. In a follow-up story, the reporter found "human error" caused some non-citizens to be registered because "one Naples resident, who clearly marked she was not a U.S. citizen...was registered anyway." Pierrotti quoted a Lee County administrator who said that since 2010, the county has required proof of citizenship for voter registration. Pierrotti also interviewed US Sen. Bill Nelson (D-FL), who suggested using social security number for verification.

In May 2012, Pierrotti reported that Florida found "1,251 potential non-U.S. citizens" on the statewide rolls, based on the method Pierrotti used. He quoted one election supervisor: "The difference between Bush and Gore in 2000 in Florida was 537 votes. So, it's very important." Some of those non-citizens included a snowbird (slang for Canadians who reside part-time in southern states) and others who did not know how they even were registered. Pierrotti concluded: "In some cases, non-citizens were likely accidently registered at the DMV when they showed up to get a license. In other cases, they were lying on voter registration forms. Those who do that could face felony charges."

My comments: Rick Scott's voter purge is not about law and order. It's a politically calculated move and an overreaction to stories like this. Furthermore, as the story shows, Florida state employees have also registered non-citizens to vote even if the voter form had "non-citizen" option checked. And Florida has also committed blunders affecting its legal voters. Gov. Scott once acknowledged that Florida accidentally deleted him from the rolls because the state thought he died. NPR reported on 5/31 that Florida's official purge effort targeted about 180,000 people, including false positives like WWII veteran Bill Internicola. The Tampa Bay Times also ran a column detailing a Hispanic woman who was born in Ohio (and a registered Republican) but falsely accused by Florida of being a noncitizen on the voter registry.

3 replies

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Highlight:

Florida TV station did investigative report exposing non-citizen voters...thoughts? (Original Post) alp227 Jul 2012 OP

Let them do this Politicalboi Jul 2012 #1

How many names did the reporters check before they reached 100? Igel Jul 2012 #2

a snowbird is not a Canadian 2pooped2pop Jul 2012 #3

Politicalboi

(15,189 posts)

1. Let them do this

Reply to alp227 (Original post)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 12:08 AM

Jul 2012

After the election. Instead of disenfranchising voters, get it right next time. Put photos on Medicare cards, and use them as ID if no other is available.

Igel

(35,320 posts)

2. How many names did the reporters check before they reached 100?

Reply to alp227 (Original post)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 01:09 AM

Jul 2012

Did they check all of them?

How did they check them? It's probably not too hard to find a DMV record that's in error if "non-citizen" is checked, or to find a jury excusal form that says "non-citizen" and then check to see if they're registered as voters. But if they didn't say they were excused and incriminate themselves? If they served on a jury or had other reasons for being excused?

How many years of excusal records for every court in the counties mentioned did they check? Yeah, I thought so. No info. Easy to make a claim based on silence, because that's what most people in this argument have done.

Those who say it's never happened have set themselves up to be wrong. "Never" is disproven by a single instance.

Those who say it seldom happens have a problem. It's hard to show that it's happened. The best that you can claim, factually, is that the incidence of showing that it's happened is low. Then you can make arguments as to why it's not likely to be very common--but that's the best you can do. The other side can only say that the numbers caught are likely to be a fraction of those guilty--but is the fraction 1/1000 or 99/100? Stats come to the rescue, but you still have the assumptions you put into them.

As for disenfranchisement, most states--I assume FL does, too--have a provision that if you're name is incorrectly removed from the rolls then a provisional ballot is available. You show you should have been on the rolls and that's that.

2pooped2pop

(5,420 posts)

3. a snowbird is not a Canadian

Reply to alp227 (Original post)

Sun Jul 15, 2012, 07:27 AM

Jul 2012

It is a person who lives north and heads south for the winter months. Post office uses this term when they put in either a temporary hold on their mail or a temp. change of address.

they fly south for the winter

Probably not done by Canadians so much as US

and I would think most "snowbirds" vote absentee don't they? How long do you need to live in a place to be a resident? There could be some confusion causing people to vote in the wrong state.

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