You shouldn't expect cash customers to subsidize you or your credit card company.

I have had this argument with clerks and managers before and they simply do not care that the money is cash in my bank account. I get charged anyway if It's their policy.

Needless to say, I've refused to shop at such places for some time now. The OP has a valid point.

When you use your debit card like a credit card, the debit transaction goes through the credit card interchange networks and is charged a fee comparable to a credit card transaction. This is at least partially rationalized by it being a relatively insecure transaction with high fraud costs.

When you use your debit card and enter a PIN on a PIN pad, the debit transaction goes through what are essentially interconnected ATM networks and is charged a small fee. PIN debit is probably the cheapest transaction for the merchant, since it doesn't involve processing cash, writing off counterfeit bills, and the risk of theft/robbery.

If you pay a pinned ATM transaction they pay a fixed amount.

If you pay cash they get the full amount of the transaction.

If you're expecting the business to absorb the cost of your transaction you're passing the cost of paying MasterCard and your bank on to cash customers.

a percentage just so you can have the luxury of using your credit card. Should people who pay cash subsidize your credit card use?

Fact is, we're all paying the credit card fees anyway, because stores and other businesses aren't going to eat that cost themselves. Instead, they adjust their prices accordingly. So even if you pay cash, you're paying a slightly higher price than you would otherwise pay because retailers are anticipating the fees from customers who will pay with a card.

I try to pay cash when dealing with local merchants, since more of my money stays in the community that way. If those businesses begin passing costs directly onto credit card users, I'm not going to stop shopping there as a result.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]That's a reTHUG thing.

crux of it i think.

Now it is simply built into the price. If they do anything we should get a cash discount. But, I don't see that happening.

Last edited Mon Jul 16, 2012, 11:44 PM - Edit history (1)

To lure you in and once you are there, you find out that the credit price is 10-20 cents higher. You are busy to deal with it, but it is infuriating. I remember them and never use them unless desperate.

My local Sonoco gas station sells their gas 10 cents cheaper when paying cash. Being the only one doing this around, their price beats any competitors around. It's always crowded.

transaction, regardless of method of payment. Should have done it years ago. Any good businessperson knows to pass on costs to the end consumer.

The only exception is Gas stations, which is highly annoying.

Credit and cash customers alike.

It would be like when they passed the law on gas stations so that they could offer "cheaper" prices for cash. A station charging $3.79 a gallon before went to $3.79 a gallon for Cash and $3.89 for credit. It's a scam.

Whether explicitly or as part of the price. In other words, your law does zero to ensure that cash customers pay less (except for gas).

And businesses would keep the old prices and just raise the credit price for more profit. Just like gas - More hassle to get the cash, but same prices.

And I agree with you about the credit-card companies passing their PR problem on to merchants. And about how you're the engine that keeps the economy going. Good luck to you!

The needlework shop I worked in quit taking American Express because the fees to the shop were very, very high.

People that pay cash shouldn't have to pay for credit card users. I don't have any credit cards, nor do I plan on applying for one.

for small business, unions too. It's mostly talk. You see 'em cheer unions but they'd rather sever a limb than drive a union made car. They'll fight to the death over the notion that they are buying American made cars cause their Toyota or whatever is made in a right to work state in America where they'd rather close the plant than pay a living wage! But Yay! Go Labor!1! *gag*

I am not kidding when I tell you I have seen a DUer proudly proclaim he's supporting small business in his community by taking a Big Box ad to small local business, getting the guy to match the rock bottom price. What a guy, eh? Yeah, make sure that bastard doesn't make a fucking dime, way to go!

Some businesses are doing "discounts" for cash purchases. Most notably the grow store I go to. Credit card, no problem, you pay the list prices. Cash? Here's 10% off.

Easy peasy.

Julie

Farmer's markets and craft shows (including fairs and festivals) are great ways to spend locally!



Julie

Last year I worked at a store and couldn't believe all the people that charge something that cost less than a dollar.

I use to love it when the CC machine went down(happens a lot) and only those with cash could be served.

When I actually see dollars slipping out of my hands, it makes spending more "real." This way, I can take out a certain amount of cash each week, in accordance with my budget, and understand my spending at a very basic level.

Not gonna do it.

Accepting credit cards has costs, but enables me to do business with more people. Like the other taxes I pay, it is just a cost of doing business. I factor all the costs of doing business, rent, supplies and materials, transportation, taxes, and credit card processing fees into the price of the goods I sell. The price is the price, I do not charge extra for anything, but I cover my expenses and try to make a profit.

tax dodgers or CC surchargers. Too inconvenient to carry cash.

90+ percent of my business was credit card swipes. In the last few years it has dropped to under 60 percent. More people are carrying cash. I think they are using it as a budget mechanism. They come to the art shows where I do business with a wad of bills, and if they spend them, they are done. Cash is good, but I have no problem with credit either.

My sales have changed as well. At first I sold alot of affordable pieces to regular folks on credit. Now I sell far less affordable work and mostly for cash. However I now sell a good bit more expensive stuff, mostly on credit, to people who have no detectable budget worries.

Bad credit will do that to you but it's nice to live a life without worrying about 50% (that's sarcasm, BTW) interest rates on items you otherwise can't afford to purchase at the time of purchase.

Businesses are charged a fee for each credit card transaction, and I see no reason for them to have to eat that cost. Use of a credit card is a convenience for me, and I don't have a problem paying for it.

Many private schools and colleges already do this, when accepting credit cards for tuition. In fact, at both the Catholic school my daughter attended and the college she starts in the fall, they won't even accept Visa, because the fees are so high. Use of other credit cards incurs a 2.5% fee. I won't use the credit card, as the college actually has a monthly payment plan that pulls the tuition right out of my checking account, but if I were, I could certainly understand the addtional fee.

My brother and I run a hot dog stand at an airport and see little sense in accepting them. We know from experience we lose less than 5 sales a month and that when one guy is working alone the extra paperwork would not be worth the hassle.

Now pilots are a strange lot and quite a few carry only large bills ($100 bills are known as "pilot's singles&quot , and we usually can break those though not (as actually happened) when three or more stop over and each spends less than $5 and want to pay separately with hundreds...

But the ones that truly amaze fly in with their plane ($100,000+) and buy 40 gallons or more of fuel ($5.67 per) and then stroll over to our little stand (the smallest business at the airport) WITHOUT enough cash to buy a cheeseburger and fries ($5 tax included). They are the ones most appalled to find our little operation doesn't take plastic and horrified we don't have an ATM.

Carry cash-the OTHER money-Don't leave home without it...

Not calling you a liar. It just seems odd.

What is the size of the airport you operate in?

I hate cash. Never carry it. None of my friends carry it. It costs money to get (unless your bank's ATM is handy). And it's too easy to lose.

There's a popular restaurant/bar here famous for not taking credit cards - Yakzees - We used to order from them a lot in our cash carrying days. We went for YEARS not ordering from them. Recently they have been on grub hub so we can order online and pay with a cc. Who knows how many thousands and thousands of dollars they missed out on. It was several hundred just from us.

Are the pilots often the same people? Maybe you could give them personal credit accounts!

I have run a small business and we had to accept credit cards to cater to the convenience of our customers. But every credit card transaction cost me anywhere from 4 to 6%, depending on the card. The introduction of debit cards reduced that amount to, in my case, somewhere around 2% if run as a debit.

But it was a cost I incurred to offer a convenient method of payment. There are costs to the merchants, the clearing banks and the card issuers to support the use of cards. Those costs need to be paid by someone.

In my case I offered a discount to a customer that paid in cash or check. I wasn't supposed to but it made those cash customers very happy.

they will charge the same for credit and cash - just a cost of doing business for them. Smaller businesses have a harder time doing this.

purchases, it cost me money instead of making a small profit. I had to put up a sign that read 'only purchases over $5.00 can be bought on a credit card'. I think it is perfectly reasonable for small businesses to charge for credit card use.

There is a store I go to, if you use credit they add 3%, so I simply bring cash. He could raise all his prices 3%, but then it would hurt the cash customers. He has the best prices in town, and does stuff to keep his cost low.

If you would like, I could sign your pledge, stop shopping at an independent business, and buy stuff at walmart.

Businesses have to pay a fee to accept credit cards. Businesses should be able to charge accordingly. Right now, I get $25-$50 per month for using my credit card instead of my debit card because the credit card company slams the businesses and rebates me part of their profit. Businesses have to charge more to every customer to make up the difference.

Give me the choice of paying more to use credit, less to use debit, or nothing to use cash.

The idea that we can force people to use cash by act of Congress is odd, to say the least. Out-of-touch, as well.

put the fucking thing in a draw and use it only for large puchases like a set of tires or repairs, pay-at -the pump when on a trip. Then pay it off at the end of the month. Stop using it for groceries, starbucks, lunch dinner and small purchases. I was with a coworker the other day that whipped out his card to pay for $1.00 at a parking lot. jeeeze! Go to the fucking bank or credit union once or twice a month and pull out a few hundred or??? take it home put in a draw and put 40-50 bucks in your pocket before you leave the house. By not using your credit card you fuck the bankers a little at a time. They get no profit from transactions and they can't track purchase and they can't sell your buying history to marketers. I would hope that the majority of DU memebers would have stop using their credit cards for everyday stuff a long time ago.

I use mine for daily living, and get the cash back on every purchase. I pay it off at the end of every month, and start fresh.

do you keep giving them your business???

They've had my business for 12 years now, and for 30 years before that, I was with another credit union.

I like the convenience of not carrying cash, not having to make sure that I have enough with me for what I want to buy, and yes, I like the cash back rewards.

Sorry you don't approve, but oh well.

You want to dick over the merchant for the transaction fee, because you get a share in the form of a "cash back reward".

I said I would keep shopping at places that accept credit cards, even if they charge an additional fee for doing so. How is that "dickiing over the merchant"?

All the time.

on CSPAN the bankers sitting before a Senate sub-committeee on Banking refer to people that use their credit cards and pay them off each month as quote "Deadbeats". They were cry- bagging that us "Deadbeats" get to use their money for free for 30-days, boo fucking hoo. My credit card went in the draw that very day. The bankers hate you whether they make money off of you or not. So why would you want to do business with people that hate you? Do you hang out with people that hate you???? do you hang out with Tea-baggers???

What do I care?

I'll be laughing all the way to the bank.

Geez they just told you you are the one with the advantage. Why get upset?

If paying my credit card balance every month makes me a deadbeat in the eyes of the bank, why should I care?

The bankers hate you whether they make money off of you or not. So why would you want to do business with people that hate you? Do you hang out with people that hate you????

Borrowing their money without paying them interest puts a smile on my face. The great thing about a credit card is I almost never have to talk to the issuing institution.

There's another big benefit to using credit cards for purchases - The ease of reversing a payment for a product or service that was not delivered as promised.

do you hang out with Tea-baggers???

Have you stopped beating your underage live-in lover?

buy a Soda with my credit card, that will show those fucking bankers wh the boss is. after that I'm going to go beat my 13yr. old girlfriend who is also my sister.

Don't forget cigarettes.

a beer, a toast to good banter.

Always, with the single exception of purchasing fuel because that is too great a convenience to trade off.

I use CCs all the time and appreciate other people subsidizing their costs. On the other hand, I can definitely see cash and check people saying "I will no longer subsidize pay for credit card users" and refusing to shop at stores that spread the CC fees to non-CC users.

I like the new rules. Business get advantages from accepting credit cards. Shoppers by more. They don't have to handle as much cash. They are safer than checks. There are drawbacks as well. Credit card processors charge fees. Credit card charges can be reversed. Under the old rules, merchants that took any cards couldn't discriminate. Now they can. I'll let the market work out whether the prices should be different. I suspect that when the dust settles, only very low margin businesses and "businesses" where people have no choice will pass the credit card charges directly to credit card users.

Brilliant!

Socialism!

How dare *all* patrons of that merchants are charged to share the costs of the business' credit processing costs!!!

When all my debts were paid and my bankruptcy was discharged, I vowed never to have another credit card. Credit cards are what got me into trouble. Now I only use my debit card for purchases.

Especially at local small businesses. I also alway tip in cash too, because then the servers have the option to "declare" or not declare. I think they're horribly underPaid in general and if they choose to not claim the extra few bucks per shift, that's their call, not mine.

the big businesses are likely to have made deals to cut the swipe fees low enough that they'd be stupid to pass them on to me.

the little guy on the edge? maybe not.

so i'm not going to make some grand rule about this.

So the small businesses should just eat the transaction fee?

I'll pass. Rigidity is for idiots or corpses.

I am a small business who'd like to offer credit cards, lose business for not doing so, but it would cost me too much. I would make nothing but lose money by taking credit cards.

And yes, you have it backwards. The best way to get to credit card companies is to use cash or checks at businesses that do that credit cards. Don't penalize businesses but penalize credit card companies.

small businesses who understand competition.

Excellent explanations from several who understand cost accounting and that profit = revenue - cost and others who understand that competition drives business owners to accept credit cards to compete.

Still a customer is free to choose which product or service to buy and IMO that's an important personal freedom.

I wish all DUers could join in this threads discussion.

Don't blame the businesses - they know you don't like it, and they wish they didn't have to.

Blame the banksters.

I will not use a Credit Card ever.. If i don't have the money in the bank for a purchase, than I don't have anything to spend.

Cash and coin are becoming relics of yesteryear, much as the brick and mortar banks that house it. Paper invoices also seem such a waste. The problem is the resistance to making legislation governing technology that makes other things obsolete.
I wish the world would just grow up and get a life already

A couple of gas stations here charge .35 cents to use a credit card to purchase gas. I refuse to use their services.

check, if I don't want to pay the fee.

I think it's okay for businesses to pass that fee along.

Then the cards will be used less. Which will cost the banks $. Getting less $ is the only thing that gets a bank's attention. So they might lower the fees to merchants.

Not sure how I feel about the fee for online purchases, since there IS no way to pay w/o using a card.

as a backup. I like to rack up the points and get airplane tickets. Of course, it helps my points balance that I can pay my rent on my Amex.

believe the wizard behind the curtain aka central government aka magic creates jobs.

I draw hope from the few replies to this thread who speak from experience about the difficulties of starting, growing, and surviving a business, and more often failing.

To those Democrats who have started businesses and succeeded or failed, I salute you because you are [changed from or] the foundation for a more prosperous tomorrow, if people will only follow your lead.

Better to have reached for the stars and failed than never to have reached at all!

Corrected to change "or" to "are"

I find cash to be rather inconvenient. But I also recognize that the infrastructure used to process my credit card payments isn't paid for with sunshine and rainbows. If businesses want to charge me a tad more to use my card, I'll probably end up paying a tad more to use the card in most circumstances. Or maybe I'll start carrying cash with me if I find that I'll save a lot of money by doing so.

The infrastructure for processing the credit card messages is not expensive. The messages amount to several twitters per transaction through the credit card network.

They are expensive because of fraud.