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LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
Thu Aug 24, 2017, 08:17 PM Aug 2017

Another view of the "Bernie Sanders voters cost Clinton the election?" meme

The Washington Post has a feature article: Did enough Bernie Sanders supporters vote for Trump to cost Clinton the election?. I just ask that people read and note the numbers in the following paragraphs:

How many Sanders voters voted for Donald Trump?

Two surveys estimate that 12 percent of Sanders voters voted for Trump. A third survey suggests it was 6 percent.

First, the political scientist Brian Schaffner analyzed the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, which was conducted by YouGov and interviewed 64,600 Americans in October-November 2016. In that survey, Schaffner found that 12 percent of people who voted in the primary and reported voting for Sanders also voted in November and reported voting for Trump.

Schaffner examined only voters whose turnout in the primary and general election could be validated using voter file data. This excludes people who said they voted but actually did not — although it also excludes people who voted in caucuses or party-run primaries, for which validated turnout data are not as readily available.


There's a great deal of data in paragraphs between the above and those further down in the article; but, I think these are significant:

What kinds of Sanders voters supported Trump?

Perhaps the most important feature of Sanders-Trump voters is this: They weren’t really Democrats to begin with.

Of course, we know that many Sanders voters did not readily identify with the Democratic Party as of 2016, and Schaffner found that Sanders-Trump voters were even less likely to identify as Democrats. Sanders-Trump voters didn’t much approve of Obama either.

In fact, this was true well before 2016. In the VOTER Survey, we know how Sanders-Trump voters voted in 2012, based on an earlier interview in November 2012. Only 35 percent of them reported voting for Obama, compared with 95 percent of Sanders-Clinton voters. In other words, Sanders-Trump voters were predisposed to support Republicans in presidential general elections well before Trump’s candidacy.


Summing up:

In short, it may be hard to know exactly how many Sanders-Trump voters there were, or whether they really cost Clinton the election. But it doesn’t appear that many of them were predisposed to support Clinton in the first place.
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mcar

(42,372 posts)
3. The point, I think
Thu Aug 24, 2017, 08:25 PM
Aug 2017

is not whether those Bernie to Trump voters were ever Democrats. It's the now established fact that some Bernie supporters voted Trump.

Enough to turn the election.

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
4. The point is.....that Bernie was able to attract people from across the spectrum to vote for him.
Thu Aug 24, 2017, 08:35 PM
Aug 2017

The Democratic party wasn't able to hold on to those voters. I don't think they even tried!!!

mcar

(42,372 posts)
6. Sorry, but anyone who voted Trump
Thu Aug 24, 2017, 08:37 PM
Aug 2017

is not progressive or liberal or even worth my time. I question their very sanity.

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
7. The point should be.......they're voters!
Thu Aug 24, 2017, 08:43 PM
Aug 2017

You don't win elections without attracting votes, even if some of those come from people you don't like!

LongTomH

(8,636 posts)
15. Of course I did!
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 09:50 AM
Aug 2017

Edited to add: I'm a loyal Democrat, active in local politics. I hold the post of Precinct Committeeman for my ward and precinct in Kansas City.

pnwmom

(108,994 posts)
8. How many of them were GOP supporters who purposely voted in open primaries or caucuses
Thu Aug 24, 2017, 10:29 PM
Aug 2017

to help the candidate they viewed as weaker to win the Democratic nomination?

When someone knows their candidate's primary win is assured, that's something that partisans do.

Rhiannon12866

(206,016 posts)
9. I'm in NY, close to Vermont, & most everyone I know voted Bernie in the primary, Hillary in the GE
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 03:54 AM
Aug 2017

I realize that's hardly a random sample, but not one of them can stand Trump.

alarimer

(16,245 posts)
12. Some Democrats in every election vote for the Republican
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 08:52 AM
Aug 2017

It happens every year to varying degrees. Maybe they are closet Republicans and only register as Dems for their own reasons. I don't know. I do know that I am sick of Bernie being blamed for the loss. No, that was on Hillary. They made plenty of mistakes, including taking those rust belt states for granted and thinking they had a chance in Texas, of all places. To say nothing of structural problems (racist voting restriction, etc).

And 90 MILLION people who were eligible to vote DID NOT VOTE at all. So why not blame them? Or more importantly, try to get them to vote.

Nanjeanne

(4,975 posts)
13. And 25% of Clinton supporters voted for John McCain so the real question
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 09:25 AM
Aug 2017

should be -- how do Presidential candidates inspire voters to vote for them despite party lines.

Cause Obama still won even with those Clinton defectors.

http://isps.yale.edu/research/data/d130

Orsino

(37,428 posts)
14. Since Sanders is not a Democrat, he is an easy scapegoat...
Fri Aug 25, 2017, 09:39 AM
Aug 2017

...and your attempt to undemonize him using mere evidence may not go over well.

I think, for better and worse, Sanders brought new voters into the GE. We'll just never know for sure in what ratios.

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