General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHillary voters LOVE Bernie!
according to this poll released recently (August 17-22) by Harvard Harris
http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/HHP-August-Wave_Custom-Banners_Registered-Voters.pdf 37
This is important information. The animosity between factions in the democratic party is rife here, and propagated by some who have the money to buy speech. This poll tells a very different story.
Go to page 37 for Hillary Clinton and page 44 for Bernie Sanders.
For those who voted for Clinton:
approve/strongly approve Clinton = 81 % very unfavorable/unfavorable = 15%
Sanders approve/strongly approve =80% very unfavorable/unfavorable = 14%
Its time to stop fighting. Obviously Hillary voters in the big outside world Love Bernie! And Hillary!
PatrickforO
(14,587 posts)Thank you.
CousinIT
(9,257 posts)I think there's room in the Dem Party for the progressive and the centrist 'wings' - there had BETTER BE or Dems will continue to LOSE and in case no one's noticed: WE. CAN'T. AFFORD. THAT. Full stop.
dchill
(38,532 posts)If not, I'm out.
tblue37
(65,488 posts)secondwind
(16,903 posts)Hieronymus
(6,039 posts)sandensea
(21,664 posts)They're both consummate professionals who've devoted their public lives for the sake of the rest of us. They may have differing ideas as to how best to accomplish that; but they both share that same vision and goal.
As opposed to being a craven kleptocrat, like the one Putin installed as our president in order to inflict as much harm as possible.
CousinIT
(9,257 posts)TexasTowelie
(112,422 posts)"The animosity between factions in the democratic party is rife here, and propagated by some who have the money to buy speech."
This leads me to two questions,
1) Who on DU is spending money to buy speech as the OP suggests?
2) The Harvard-Harris poll is a monthly poll commissioned by The Hill for their exclusive use. Has anyone thought about what motive The Hill might have to commission monthly polls?
If the polls were incorrect in predicting the winner of the 2016 presidential election, then why should we believe that this poll is any way representative of the general population?
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)of the MSM.
I also would like to know more about Havard-Harris. It surprised me to see the choices they gave
No Kamila Harris, No Tulsi Gabbard
And why the heck Steve Bannon?
Despite all that, I found the polling around the 2 last standing dems, and the un-masking of the perceived rift in the party very heartening.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)I guess that's how you choose to read them. Or which ones you want to believe. LA Times had Trump out front. I think there was another one too. There was also that model created by some British company (wouldn't be surprised if it was that one that Mercer paid) where you could move the axis around for different voting groups. It was clear if you suppressed the AA vote and white males showed up Trump would win. Wish I could find it for you!
TexasTowelie
(112,422 posts)Well according to Harvard-Harris then Mike Pence is the second most popular politician in the country. I'm surprised that even half of the country knows that Mike Pence is VP.
It makes me want to set up a dartboard across the room and throw 50 darts in that general direction to see what sticks. Harvard-Harris also said in February that 73% of voters want for Democrats to work with Trump. I wouldn't bet my next meal that their data is reliable.
mythology
(9,527 posts)The LA Times poll was off. Yes they had Trump winning, but that was the popular vote which he lost handily. In that poll the final numbers had Trump winning the popular vote by a bit over 3 percent. Instead Clinton won by a bit over 2 percent. The LA Times poll was off by 5 percent. The national polling average had Clinton winning the popular vote by 3.3 percent, 1.2 percent difference from the election results.
The LA Times poll got attention for predicting a Trump win, but they weren't accurate on the numbers.
And nice to see you here.
Response to floppyboo (Original post)
Post removed
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)And this site is a good place for you to vent those feelings.
The catch-phrase I hear most often is the 'big tent' and all should be welcome
murielm99
(30,761 posts)That is the only reason BS was welcome at all and allowed to run as a Democrat.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Look at all the new blood that felt they could make a difference in fighting for social justice, environmental justice, and, best of all, believing there was an option for each voice to participate in the democratic process free of corporate money!
These were things I thought were the pole holding up that big tent!
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)Spoilers spoil everything. The party will never be used in such a heinous manner again. Democrats' money and influence will be saved for Democrats and non-spoilers.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I saw divisions rise and get aggravated that weren't aggravated before.
I saw a candidate refuse to concede even when it was bloody obvious he had lost and inflame some of his more ardent supporters.
I'm not trying to rehash the primaries, but let's not pretend it was all sweetness and light. It wasn't, and in the end I think it did more harm than good.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)and suggests those tensions aren't as real as they may seem, or are portrayed ad infinitum to the point of dangerous group think anymore. Discussions - even heated debate - are healthy for fixing stuff that's broke. I really hope people can stop re-living that tense time and benefit from lessons learnt.
Adrahil
(13,340 posts)I think this is yet another in a long line of posts from people who, in my view, seem to be dedicated to building a cult of personality.
There is lots to admire about Bernie Sanders. If asked if I "approve" of Sen. Sanders, I would say yes. His values and mine largely align, even if I think his policy positions are mostly fantasy.
But let me be clear. I will NEVER vote for him in a primary, and I strongly oppose permitting him to run as a "Democrat" again. If he is permitted to run, and he wins, I will gladly vote for him.
But don't spin this "poll" into something it is not.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)And my intent here is to show similarities - not to cause divisions or raise one person over another.
I am saddened that so many jump to conclusions. You really have to let go of 2016.
Purveyor
(29,876 posts)murielm99
(30,761 posts)The far left, who will never find any Democrat pure enough? Blue collar white males, the non-union kind, who have not voted for Democrats in thirty years? Good luck with that.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)There aren't that many far-left people out there and I don't know where to start with your non-union worker remark. Are you suggesting that is a permanent desirable condition?
DavidDvorkin
(19,485 posts)trueblue2007
(17,238 posts)C Moon
(12,221 posts)I voted for Hillary, but I love Bernie.
We need to get the traitors out of the house, the senate and the WH.
brer cat
(24,605 posts)that Bannon is the 12th most popular politician in America?
MrsCoffee
(5,803 posts)Willie Pep
(841 posts)Jonathan Chait did a good breakdown of one study on the election and talked about this issue.
You think the Bernie Sanders movement was about socialism? Not really. Sanders voters have the same beliefs about economic equality and government intervention as Hillary Clinton supporters. On the importance of Social Security and Medicare, Sanders voters actually have more conservative views.
Where they mainly differ is on international trade and the question of whether politics is a rigged game. The ideological content of Sanderss platform is not what drew voters. It was, instead, his counter-positioning to Clinton as a clean, uncorrupted outsider.
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2017/06/new-study-shows-what-really-happened-in-the-2016-election.html
The Internet often gives a very skewed perspective as the most active people online tend to be more extreme, that is why you can find plenty of communists and neo-fascists online while never encountering them in real life. In the same vein I am sure you find more intense anti-Clinton and anti-Sanders Democrats online than in real life where most Democrats are probably fine with both of them. I am guilty of sometimes taking the Internet too seriously myself, so it is good when polls like this come out and help to give some much needed perspective.
Iggo
(47,565 posts)Because the overwhelming majority of us are THE SAME GODDAM PEOPLE!!!
Jesus fucking christ! Can the 2016 Dem Primary PLEEEAAASSSEEE be over?!?!?!
Fuck!
TheDebbieDee
(11,119 posts)Causes angry and bitter debates between Hillary and Bernie supporters on progressive forums, the subject will continue to be broached...
This is laying the groundwork to faction the Dem party for the 2020 Presidential Elections - we've got to stop allowing this debate to pull our strings!
RandiFan1290
(6,242 posts)They want to divide us.
I always notice the uptick in Bernie attacks when dump shoves his tiny foot in his mouth.
R B Garr
(16,976 posts)He's not a target for obvious reasons. For some reason, Chelsea is on their radar. Same with Kamala Harris, like when they tried to shush her in those hearings.
sheshe2
(83,898 posts)R B Garr
(16,976 posts)Hassin Bin Sober
(26,339 posts)R B Garr
(16,976 posts)So....
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,339 posts)... Reagan had huge crossover in every state except Minnesota. That's why he won every state except Minnesota.
I suppose if you want to take a narrow Wikipedia definition then have at it...
I see them here in Chicago that claim to be Democrats then cheer on Rahm Emanuel on while he beats up on the teachers union
R B Garr
(16,976 posts)everyone who didn't vote for a socialist doesn't mean the majority of voters are Reagan Democrats. That's hilarious.
Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin
(108,192 posts)How many are still alive? The last time Reagan ran was 33 years ago.
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,339 posts)I still see a lot of them in Chicago. They're pro-union but only their own Union. Anyone else's Union is "not really necessary"
They "pay for their own health care" and don't understand why they should have to "pay for anyone else's Healthcare". Except for their own Medicare of course.
They'll complain about "kids these days wanting free stuff"
Basically a conservative Democrat that whines about socialism
R B Garr
(16,976 posts)There is a specific meaning to using that term.
Gothmog
(145,554 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)R B Garr
(16,976 posts)lol
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)That tells me all I need to know.
R B Garr
(16,976 posts)Bradshaw3
(7,529 posts)I don't think that helps win elections in the future. The OP to me was showing that we can be unified. I guess you think that's worth an eye roll.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)... I wasn't fooled.
Bradshaw3
(7,529 posts)Who said it was the DNC outreach committee? The TOS states:
"Democratic Underground is an online community for politically liberal people who understand the importance of working together to elect more Democrats"
Seems to me the post was in that vein but all I've seen from you is eye rolling and the statement that you know what was really intended.
To wit the TOS also states:
"above all, we want our members to be friendly to each other. The vast majority of our members are thoughtful people who care about issues, and most of us can handle a different opinion if it is shared in a respectful way. No matter where you stand on the political spectrum, a little human kindness goes a long way toward smoothing over our differences and making this place feel like a community."
and
"Do not imply that they are fake Democrats, fake progressives,"
and
"Underground welcomes all people who are members of the Democratic coalition, including the full range of center-to-left viewpoints"
I don't see why if you have a disagreement with a post as innocuous as this, that kind of response was deserved. Perhaps you could explain your disagreement in a way that informs and that conforms with the TOS. Thanks
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)#GoodLuck
Bradshaw3
(7,529 posts)Got it.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,434 posts)We don't need more HRC/BS discussion, IMO. That's water under the bridge. We need to focus on GOP criminal conduct and treason. Were I sufficiently paranoid, I'd suspect that this kind of talk is a right wing/Russian distraction tactic.
Let's stay focused on the present.
The nation is coming apart at the seams. Trumpy is literally dismantling the entire governmental infrastructure, and some of us are re-litigating last year's debacle. That won't stop interstate crosschecking, unrelenting Russian cyberattacks, the floundering and listless GOP Congress, and the growing pressure from climate change. On the horizon is a tsunami of GOP/Russian propaganda aimed at negating the popular sentiments that legitimately blame Trumpy and the GOP of weakening our nation. If unchallenged, they'll alter the reality frame successfully and remain in power.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)God,I am so sick of this crap. It's gotten so old.
peggysue2
(10,839 posts)1000x yes.
Orsino
(37,428 posts)Doesn't have to trickle down to DU, of course but out in the real world, we're gonna be bumping into each other wherever we choose to get/stay involved.
Grudges are fun, sure, but meanwhile there's good work to be done.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Why is Elizabeth Warren four percent less "popular" than Donald Trump?
Do you really want to allow this poll to inform you?
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Are you looking at name recognition? Which page of the poll are you referring to?
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Page 38:
Summary Of Very Favorable/Favorable
Base: All Respondents
...
Donald Trump 41%
Elizabeth Warren 37%
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)She ran about 8% behind Obama in 2012.
Love her as a Senator, but the idea that she's some kind of political force outside the inner sanctum of the big tent has always been iffy.
OilemFirchen
(7,143 posts)Very useful.
geek tragedy
(68,868 posts)GreenEyedLefty
(2,073 posts)There is room in this big old tent for both them and their supporters.
asuhornets
(2,405 posts)MoonRiver
(36,926 posts)My guess is that even online polls couldn't rig that one.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)Bernie had about 40% of the primary votes? Now, assuming that Hillary voters that voted Hillary then didn't change their minds, and only 4% strongly disapprove of Hillary, that would lead me to believe that 36% of the 81% of 'approve Hillary' are Bernie voters., and 45% were Hillary voters. That's not a big difference!
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)Assumptions aren't data.
80% of the 54% who have a favorable view of BS voted for Hillary.
The only conclusion you can reach is that a significant percentage of those who voted in the November 2016 election AND who hold a favorable view of BS in August 2017 cast their presidential vote for Hillary Clinton.
You can't combine personal speculation with raw data and reach valid conclusions unless you can prove the truth of your assumptions.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)Kamala Harris? Jerry Brown? Martin O'Malley?
No, none of them, but they had an opportunity to vote for Steve Bannon.
Also, did you see the comments on Page 1 of the document? FYI, here's an excertp:
"Results were weighted for age within gender, region, race/ethnicity, marital status, household size, income, employment, and education"
That alone shows how ludicrous this ONLINE "poll" is.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)George II
(67,782 posts)lapucelle
(18,319 posts)in exchange for the use of their name in the poll title. Harris pays respondents for their participation with Amazon and Starbucks gift cards.
sheshe2
(83,898 posts)lapucelle
(18,319 posts)per contract with Harris Insights & Analytics. "Exclusive use" polls are commissioned and paid for by the "exclusive use" holder.
The results of these polls are "donated" to the Center for American Political Studies at Harvard University. In exchange, Harris is allowed to use Harvard's name in the poll title.
Harris polls are not included in the Blue Book published by the American Association for Public Opinion Research. That organization, founded in 1947, "is the leading association of public opinion and survey research professionals".
AAAPOR has a very rigorous code of ethics.
Response to floppyboo (Original post)
Post removed
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)According to that survey. Not a single POC made the cut, including Barack Obama.
George II
(67,782 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)ismnotwasm
(42,008 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Blue_Tires
(55,445 posts)it's his nuttiest supporters I have a huge problem with...
George II
(67,782 posts)Response to George II (Reply #50)
MrsCoffee This message was self-deleted by its author.
Skidmore
(37,364 posts)every time I see it from now on.
Me.
(35,454 posts)about a hundred million times as well as the part that says BS is the most popular pol. Mark Penn fingerprints all over it.
Mike Nelson
(9,966 posts)...the same team. And both were way different from the Orange Menace.
PatsFan87
(368 posts)The fighting distracts us from the work we need to be doing rebuilding state parties and completely owning 2018.
andym
(5,445 posts)I totally believe that Bernie Sanders is one of the most popular politicians in America (actually Joe Biden might be the most popular), and that a huge majority of Hillary Clinton general election voters appreciate him. That might not be apparent from DU, but DU is typically not representative. However, Bernie's popularity may be as fleeting as Clinton's, because popularity is like fashion, it is almost always transient or at least changeable.
For a historical review, take a look at this article from FEBRUARY 8, 2013:
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-politics-clinton-idUSBRE9170NZ20130208
"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton is the most popular U.S. politician, surpassing fellow Democrats President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden as well as leading Republicans, a national poll found.
Sixty-one percent of American voters approve of Clinton, a possible U.S. presidential candidate for 2016, while 34 percent said they had an unfavorable opinion, according to the survey by Quinnipiac University released on Friday.
The poll comes one week after Clinton left her post as the nation's top diplomat..."
The Benghazi investigations and especially Comey's actions drove her favorable ratings down in the high 30's by the election and surprisingly she has not recovered much in the polls, as of July 2017, when she had favorability ratings in the low 40's.
Whether Bernie Sanders continues to be as popular among the general populace and Hillary Clinton voters in particular is a question for the future.
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)45% of the 89% of all the respondents who actually voted in the 2016 presidential election voted for Hillary Clinton
80% of the 54% who view BS favorably voted for HRC. The only reasonable inference to be made is that a significant percentage of those who view BS favorably voted for Clinton.
There is no data in the study that provides evidence that supports the inference in the OP headline.
Data analysis is complex and best left to experts.
http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/HHP-August-Wave_Custom-Banners_Registered-Voters.pdf
http://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/HHP-August-Wave_Topline-Memo_Total-Only_Registered-Voters.pdf
Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Tarheel_Dem
(31,240 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)Everyone who has been paying attention understands that!
Docreed2003
(16,875 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)IT WORKS IF YOU WORK IT!
Docreed2003
(16,875 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)I mean, she gets way more airtime here than she does on IMDB.
I find the obsession with her in some quarters on DU, sort of odd. But, then, DU skews demographically towards the Frampton Comes Alive set, so there's probably a decent Rocky Horror Picture Show OG contingent here too.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)That's far too much analysis, contemplation and reflection for someone who merely finds it "odd".
Okay. Thanks for the reply. Good to know!
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)huh huh words.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)NastyRiffraff
(12,448 posts)I, for one, dislike and distrust Sanders.
Evergreen Emerald
(13,069 posts)randr
(12,414 posts)Not likely to support either again
wryter2000
(46,081 posts)And the vast majority of Bernie folks voted for Hillary. IMHO the fights break out because of a few extremists. During the election, many of them were probably trolls.
Vetteguy
(74 posts)The fact that the unity committee is trying to throw POC,women and gays under the bus with their caucus crap has caught the attention of loyal Democrats who are messaging Mr Perez as we speak. Nina Turner, Nomiki Konst and the rest sole purpose is to get Sanders the 2020 nomination and that is all.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)In real life or on the Internet. Polls like this are a good reminder that, in real life, most of us agree on most issues (although strategies not so much).
More importantly, and honestly with no disrespect: so what? I don't give a shit about those two, except maybe as prominent speakers from the left, and the fact that Bernie is still a sitting senator. Otherwise? They're both done. The 2016 campaign is over. They BOTH lost. They're not running again, and if they did I would most likely support someone else in the primary. Hillary is 0 for 2 nationally and Sanders will be 80 if he runs again.
2018 is all that's important right now. That's the best, and probably only, way of stopping Trump.
Bradshaw3
(7,529 posts)We need more posts like this!
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)No we don't.
Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)sheshe2
(83,898 posts)Warren DeMontague
(80,708 posts)It's kind of hard to tell these days.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Wrong again.
That cracks me up!
Arazi
(6,829 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)A large patch of supposed Sanders supporters went full Trump. This is a documented fact.
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)samnsara
(17,635 posts)ucrdem
(15,512 posts)I wouldn't call it fake news exactly, but "manufactured" might be accurate. Anyway is Senator Sanders seriously contemplating another run in 2020? Because there seems to be an uptick in news-free Sanders news.
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)by climate change deniers tailored to support their claims.
The Hill has a year long contract with Harris Analytics, so you can expect to see explosive bogus claims based dubious data in their in their headlines in the coming future. For some reason, this week they chose to spin McConnell's 11th place showing in popularity into a headline that proclaimed "Poll: McConnell the County's Least Popular Politician". How someone who ranks as the 11th most popular somehow morphs into the least popular of the hundred (if not thousands) of politicians in this country is frankly bewildering.
As for the uptick in in news-free BS news, it may be part of a publicity campaign. BS is on on a book tour for his just-released guide to revolution written for the juvenile/young adult market.
The Polack MSgt
(13,192 posts)So effing what.
He lost the Primary and his supporters helped lose the General
There was a grand total of one Democrat in the general election , and she was abandoned by 15 - 25% of Sanders' supporters in the GE
What kind of nonsense is this through the looking glass post trying to prove?
floppyboo
(2,461 posts)It might be helpful to look at the numbers as a present representation of sentiments, and stop being stuck in the primaries.
lapucelle
(18,319 posts)Democratic congressional leadership is looking good. The Democratic congressional caucuses made the right choices when they elected their leaders.
JHan
(10,173 posts)No cheap shots etc. Glad you think we're fantastic. *thumbs up* for so long Hillary supporters get called "hillbots" , "vagina voters" etc, this is a welcome change.
(Edit: of course it's not lost on me the only measure of awesomeness being applied here is Hillary Supporters loving Bernie but hey, whatever it takes!)
And I still find it hilarious the traction these pollsters have been getting recently.
BainsBane
(53,066 posts)other than personalities? If the goal is to create a Democratic party that stands for something, this isn't helping.
So no, I don't love any politician. Not the ones I voted for or didn't vote for. None of them gave birth to me, married me; nor did I raise them from infancy. The idea that people "love" politicians creeps the fuck out of me. If people cared a fraction about issues--any issues--as they do about insisting their favorite politician is popular, we might actually have a population capable of self government.
Additionally, that poll tracks favorability ratings. If you're going to claim respondents "love" the public figures they rate as favorable, you better warn them they are being used for that purpose.
If you're trying to promote unity, can it be around something that actually matters?
betsuni
(25,618 posts)Tavarious Jackson
(1,595 posts)I find this poll extremely hard to believe.
PBass
(1,537 posts)Still talking about how the DNC "rigged" the election, and other nonsense.
This screen grab sums up my feelings. Trolls using the primary to divide Democrats: