One post in that thread said they'd listen to Gergen over Bernie. It's that bad.

I have to wonder. No real democrat would support a republican or the lies they purposely and clearly peddle.

nt

that many Democrats had.

Bernie voted for the ACA, but grudgingly, and he spent most of the recent campaign criticizing Hillary for championing it. Cassidy and Graham can simply repeat his anti-ACA statements back to him. He's made the job of debating him easy.

that serves an agenda, go to the primary source and get the statement verbatim.

From the CNN transcript:

GERGEN: "I do want to go back to this health care thing. If the Democrats make this a debate between single payer and the Republican Cassidy-Graham bill, they will very likely lose that debate. They must make -- it's a strategic mistake to allow that to happen. They must make it a debate between Obamacare, the current existing system, which many Americans want to keep now, versus this radical change coming from Republicans. They can win that debate. They would probably lose the single payer debate and the country would be transformed."

and it's obvious they'll quote any Repug who shares their POV.

Either this Republican dimwit missed the point entirely, or he got it and is terrified the rest of us will.

As for that thread, it hit the trash with all the other threads just like it.

others may be overly concerned about who the players are (and if people 'like' them) and are not paying enough attention to policy concerns. This is especially true for the ACA fight because if we lose, million lose their healthcare and God knows how many will die. It is about those folks not about any Senator.

I still stand by what I posted back in July:

https://upload.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9299256

"Gergen never seems "journalistic" -- just a paid shill over the years
I've never understood the hype about him being an objective observer. His career started in the Nixon White House..."

considered 'right wing talking points'.

They are not right wing talking points. It's common sense. It doesn't make sense to send out someone to debate on behalf of the ACA who has a long record of statements opposing the ACA -- that can be used against him.

problems with the aca and is willing to work with others to fix them is exactly what is needed

if we sent someone who pretends the aca is perfect the average joe knows they are lying or misinformed or whatever

that is one part of how trump rose to power...democrats not listening

for everyone the aca helped I am grateful but for the over 50 group making too much for subsidies and not enough for a $1400/month insurance policy with a 14 grand deductible...it is not much help ( in theory once you lose everything you would get Medicaid but that isn't much consolation)

you personally called me a liar or misinformed or whatever about the aca when I first brought my concerns to du.....you are part of the problem

last year I went on the exchange for my state...because we are self employed I never know exactly what we will make....so I plugged in 42 grand a year...at that level I could get a policy with a 7 grand per person deductible(for me and spouse that would be 14 grand a year if we actually had the things done we need done) for free

but at 52 grand a year the same bad policy is over 1400 bucks a month...do the math they don't even leave me money to pay my ss taxes

this is the cliff people are talking about that some here on du will not acknowledge

now you are splitting hairs over what to call other systems around the world

please stop...we just want the same coverage as the folks get that our tax dollars are subsidizing

And people insisting he's always been taken seriously here, always been seen as legit. It's unreal!

A.K.A. Reagan Democrats

Don't want none of you whipper snapper millennials getting any "free stuff" I didn't get!!!

Not transparent in the least! 😉

a lot of folks here really don't want things like Universal HC?

Salon
Richard Nixon, hero of the American Left
He’s justifiably reviled by historians, but Nixon’s politics were far more progressive than we give him credit

Link: http://www.salon.com/2013/05/05/i_was_a_nixon_junkie_defending_the_20th_centurys_most_misunderstood_president_partner/

Maybe the party has left us and we are just figuring it out? It's been extremely confusing around here lately. I don't know what is going on?

and they think everything is find with our party when that is very far from the truth.

People are inherently scared of change. Change is what is happening and the Democratic party and its platform is changing, thanks to Bernie and some are very angry about that obviously.

What's funny is defenders of the status quo; they offer no path forward and their strategy is literally a losing one.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/04/23/two-thirds-of-americans-think-that-the-democratic-party-is-out-of-touch-with-the-country/

We can not a a party remain on that path. I really don't care to go the way of the Whigs anytime soon. And we aren't. Thank God.

is now our go to guy for political advice? This place is for Democrats? Right? Does anyone need to be reminded that Nixon and Reagan not only implemented some of the the most filthiest and disgusting racist, economically regressive, and war mongering policies of the 20th century but their administrations were both essentially run as a criminal enterprise. Anyone associated with either of those administrations should be vilified if not prosecuted and imprisoned.

Thank you

same question for Iran-Contra

Everyone in the administration

I guess that would also include the pilots of AF-1 and Marine-1 . . . .

Drivers and pilots are not part of a presidential administration. Criminals like Halderman and Erlichman and North and Poindexter are.

not just those involved with these crimes - EVERYONE

You are also the one who brought up the guilt of the getaway driver, are you not? Hence my reply.

are YOU serious?

That is the difference between the bill passing and failing -- 2-3 moderate Republican senators. They have total control over the outcome of this legislation. So perhaps it might be intelligent to listen to what moderate Republicans have to say about what might or might not convince moderate Republicans to kill this legislation.

Never our strength. Hence threads like this.

They have figured out five minutes into the battle that "Fuck you, Republicans" is probably not the best way to convince Republicans to vote down Republican legislation.

Maybe we can get real sophisticated and put birth control or pre-existing conditions on the table.

Republicans will not vote down Republican legislation no matter what we do or say. Accepting Republican narratives is the first step to losing the argument and the last nail in the coffin of controlling the debate. The sooner you figure that out the stronger the Democratic party will be.

it.

and we need some other republicans to not support it to prevent the repeal of ACA and replace with Graham Cassidy.

We need to kiss Republican ass to save Obamacare?

do what jimmy kimmel did .

I seem to remember that the Republicans did exactly that during the last time Obamacare repeal was debated. It failed by one vote, because three Republicans voted against it. I'm very glad our party didn't listen to people who claim that "Republicans will not vote down Republican legislation no matter what we do or say."

The world is a complicated place. While slogans and platitudes that are contrary to reality might make the world seem simpler, they are still contrary to reality. Sometimes, it is possible to get Republicans to vote down Republican legislation. Not always, but sometimes. Your strategy of "give up without bothering to try" would come at the expense of tens of millions of Americans. Perhaps it is time to rethink your strategy, and any assumptions that caused you to come up with such a strategy.

I have a bridge to sell you. Republicans control ALL branches of government. They don't need Democratic votes or money. On top of that they're ignorant assholes that wouldn't know a good idea if it came up and bit them on the ass.

No. The world is not a complicated place when it comes to Republicans. They are war mongering enablers of sexists, racists, and homophobes. They crashed the economy, stolen multiple elections, stole a supreme court seat, and flirt with treason to put Trump in the White House.

My strategy is not "give up without bothering to try", it's , "These MF'ers are insane and need to be stopped!".

shill from the Nixon and Reagan administrations is not my idea of taking action.

will immediately pass it won't...maybe never. And of course those who die are simply not that important...the greater good an all. I reject that spurious argument on all levels.

Really? Who said that? Name names.

Last time I checked that was the job of the Democrats I voted for. Where is the Democratic leadership?

others. You will not find then on TV supporting MFA or at a GOP debate/trap.

And yet somehow, despite everything you said about how implacable and impervious to pressure Republicans are, three Republicans saw fit to kill the last version of Obamacare repeal. These republicans were by no means Obamacare fans: they all voted against Obamacare in the first instance, and two of the three previously voted to repeal all of it (back when Obama was president). Despite all of this, they decided to save Obamacare by preventing its repeal, when their votes were decisive, after months of pressure from Democrats. That state of affairs is quite inconvenient for your argument, and your simplistic worldview.

You would claim that this surely had nothing to do with the strategic pressure Democrats have been putting on the Republicans over the last several months. In fact, you would have us believe that no action of any Democrat contributed to this outcome. Yet the outcome happened anyway, with three Republican votes being decisive. Hmmmmmmm.

Which Republican has cited Democratic pressure for as the reason for their vote?

It is quite something for you to claim that Democrats can have no effect on Republican votes for legislation, and then elsewhere IN THE VERY SAME THREAD complain that the Democrats aren't doing enough to stop Republican legislation:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=9628199

Have a wonderful day.

Democrats stop Republican legislation by winning elections. Not by asking Republicans to do the right thing after they lose elections.

Seems reasonable and sane. Think about how shiity that is.

The mind, it boggles.

Rec

They have been here from the beginning. They lectured us about the Bush/Gore recount. They lectured us about supporting the Iraq invasion. They lectured us about fully supporting the black hole they threw trillions of dollars into for the invasion. They lectured us about supporting the Bush tax cuts and slammed us if we didn't support making them permanent. And the same gang lectured us about supporting marriage equality.

Oh, you will also notice that they NEVER criticize the rebublicons.


Trolls

I avoided that thread. I see now my 5 "favorite" posters were all over it.

The very mention of Bernie's name can knock you off a perfectly good thread and everything else you say goes under the bus of word salad attacks. Not worth the time, we have things to do and responding to twisted threads of circular attacking over anything left of Nixon is not something we should need to do here.

David Gergen is smart and thoughtful and a Right Winger who almost always ends up on the opposite side of anything a Democrat or lefty would agree with.

About Bernie "we" run to Gergen and Morning Joe for our talking points.

and the debate...a broken clock is occasionally correct.

He never will.

He is exploiting the internal anxiety within our party over Graham-Cassidy. He's taking advantage of our fear that this staged and phony CNN "debate" will somehow distract us from the immediate task of killing Graham-Cassidy.
He's a snake who DOES NOT have our party's interest. This isn't "advice" he's peddling it's division. He is working a wedge cloaked in advice.

However, I a worried about the debate also...it is a trap.

I understand the worry about this "debate" even though I'm not concerned with these media slideshows.

Where I draw a big line is taking "advice" from the other side. That's my problem and quite frankly my problem with Clinton ever appointing him.
I'm not a bluedog.

the big tent- so we may differ there. I think you need a real world view as to what is possible... I will take the good if I can't get the perfect. I see folks here demanding things that won't happen anytime soon and wanting to run elections in ways that will surely cause us to lose-often on the wrong issues. They mistake what they consider important for a winning issue. I am not talking about you by the way just in general. And the outrage for a right wing source is a bit hypocritical because I know that many complaining about this have used such sources when it suited their purposes...again not you.

Bernie and has anything negative to say about him.

single payer and Cassidy-Graham that Democrats have been saying for days, and there's a ferocious emotional personal attack on him.

Gergen warned Democrats that they will lose such a debate and win if they stick to talking about the ACA. Since when do Republicans want Democrats to win debates? Calling that a Republican talking point doesn't even make sense. But no, anyone agreeing that it's tremendously important to prevent the Republicans from succeeding and millions of lives depend on it is: peddling right wing talking points, aren't really Dems, are DINOs, corporate Democrats, a troll crew working around the clock, Reagan Democrats, that the Democratic Party is to the right of Nixon, etc.