Republicans will pass anything their leadership (meaning billionaires and corporate types) put in front of them.

questions. Remember the freakout over CBO scoring and how adamantly opposed some were to that score. Same issue here.

It's a bad bill that cannot withstand simple questions.

It is such a ridiculous notion.

It's literally how you can tell you're not dealing with someone who is actually liberal or progressive. They're often accusing you of the very thing they're doing at the time.

Reagan Democrats were from the Midwest/rust belt. Not in places like California and New York... I can't even say anymore, but the Reagan Democrats were not attracted to diversity issues like in more diverse states.... They don't even see the irony in calling people that.

They're busy again.

and not a serious endeavor. Or a purity test....

used to divide, rather than an effort to pass legislation to benefit the citizenry.

Just ask a legislative question of their local office,ouch,talk about out of the loop. Dare say is is was a Democratic office,you know damn well the locals on the ground will give you up dates or if they do not have the answer at hand,they will get it for you before the day is out.

And the so called independent News Media loves to promote both party lie. It sells crap to the stupid.

the Republican agenda and party lines.

more like the GOP.

doing their best to keep the Murdoch Narrative the only game in town. Even the local yokels have amped up this Narrative.

they own them all.

Some areas the speed is snails pace.

On my last trip to visit my grandparents small town in India, I was shocked at the quality of my internet connection. I was able to stream the debates without a hitch.

niece's son Teaching pre-kindergarten kids in China. Same comment. Uses Skype to communicate with his mother daily. Teaching four year old's English,not a bad gig for a 100k American per year. 11 kids in his class all children of Mega Wealthy Chinese.

Korea as well. It's a step down to come back home internet-wise. (Other aspects too.)

I would think that if people are confident a bill is going to solve a problem, they would be glad to talk about it rather than try to shut down discussion. Weird.

For example the post suggesting 66% of Democrats are against Single Payer in CA. (which is false to begin with) and a slew of posts about how it's a fairy-tail to try and a waste of time.

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pretty much everyone serving the GOP talking points.

Please stop sowing dissension and division. We need to protect access to care, division helps GOP.

amounts to trolling. And if so-called supporters of the bill can't engage in substantive discussion with other Democrats, they don't stand a chance in hell of getting it passed. In fact, it seems clear that they are far more interested in hardening divisions, proclaiming the great majority of Americans the enemy, than in ensuring access to healthcare for American citizens.


We've seen this before. A group is more concerned with proclaiming their own superiority than issues, getting votes for their candidates, or passing legislation. It's a losing tactic, a disastrous strategy that has already been proven a failure. It's noticeable that the same people who preach understanding toward the white male Trump voters can't mange to discuss issues with Democrats. Ordinarily I wouldn't care about such disastrous tactics, but I happen to care about healthcare, and I support single payer. That means I believe that legislation needs to be taken seriously, carefully written, and subject to substantive debate. Yet we see a determination that not happen. Whatever the motivation, what is clear is that such tactics can only result in undermining single payer.

We saw all kinds of post-mortem hand wringing about Clinton's deplorables comment as insulting to voters, yet for some reason we see self-proclaimed supporters of the Senate bill insulting Democrats for asking questions. That may help them feel superior, but it sure as hell isn't going to gain support or votes for legislation.

If they can't manage to talk to Democrats who support single payer, they sure as hell aren't going to convince any of the Republicans who have to be persuaded to support single payer if it is to ever become law. As for the arguments you mention, if you can't handle those, how the hell do you think you're going to convince Republicans? Or is it possible whether it becomes law isn't the concern at all?

Just wanted to quote this and kick the thread!

The first is how exceptional the bill is in terms of no copays, no premiums. It's an extraordinary claim that should require extraordinary proof.

The second is that Sanders' plan in the primary claimed it was going to save more than we currently pay on drug costs. At that point, you really need to be sure you have your ducks in a row.

Neither has any ducks period, much less marching in a row.

Both factions defending the bills are terrified of the CBO, and they're both using the same arguments against it to defend their bill. Neither of which is well thought through.

It's all about the purity right now, as if millions of people are not in danger of losing coverage and CHIP needing renewal by the 30th.

... and it certainly sure not help their case or cause. It comes from a position of weakness.

and if you dare to question, to ask details, to know how the policy will work, you're a heretic.

seems irresponsible.

It is all **** and tax cuts.

After all, when the original Affordable Care Act was rushed through Congress in 14 months, with a few thousand hours of testimony, a paltry several dozen committee hearings, and merely thousands and thousands of pages of written evidence, studies, and fact-gathering, very few people had sat down to read the bill in its entirety before the vote. Oh, it was a travesty to think that the bill had been the product of hundreds of hours of committee writing, scored by the CBO, and presented to Congress for a floor vote through regular order.

"Read the bill!" screeched the Tea Baggers, almost as if some of them were literate. They got hours and hours of coverage on all the major networks and cable shows, time and again demonstrating how little they grasped the legislative process. You don't hear a peep out of those tools now, do you? I'm sure the producers of the news shows still have those numbers in their rolodexes and contacts lists, but they're not calling anymore. Just weird.

Constructive criticism. Concerns. Not to mindlessly trust motivations. Hold those feet to the fire and whatnot. Otherwise, heavens, it was blind allegiance, being rah rah cheerleaders, having a hive mind, echo chamber. Has something changed? I wonder.