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flamingdem

(39,324 posts)
Sun Oct 1, 2017, 10:47 PM Oct 2017

Tax reform will hurt middle class savers inheritance plans - how the GOP plans to rip off the 99.8%

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/how-the-gop-could-repeal-the-estate-tax--and-rip-off-998-percent-of-us/2017/09/28/8aadb07c-a48a-11e7-b14f-f41773cd5a14_story.html?utm_term=.c62b7f948a35

** Those who saved and invested and held stocks for their kid's inheritance will see that effort dissolve with this

But I don’t want to burden you with yet another article that tries to evaluate the total impact of the eight pages of proposals, which feel to me as if they were written in a bar one evening over a batch of beers for a Tax 101 class rather than by serious people who spent weeks working with tax issues.

Instead, I’ll give you one key specific to look for when — or if — some sort of detailed plan emerges from some part of Congress one of these days.

I’m talking about the proposed repeal of the estate tax, which Trump and many Republicans have taken to calling the “death tax” even though it’s paid by only about 1 in every 500 estates. As opposed to the “millions of small businesses” that Trump claimed in his Wednesday speech would be helped by eliminating the tax.

As things stand now, estates of more than about $5.5 million — about $11 million for married couples — pay taxes of up to 40 percent on assets above those thresholds. I think the rate is excessive, and I don’t know how many people leap through endless hoops to minimize or eliminate estate taxes — but that’s a topic for a different day.

What I do know, however, is that death conveys a big advantage to the estates of the 99.8 percent of us (including me) who haven’t accumulated enough assets to be subject to the tax — an advantage that could shrink or disappear to help Trump and Congress accommodate the 0.2 percent.

The advantage: When we die, the “tax basis” — value for tax purposes — of assets we leave behind is marked up, tax-free, to their value on the day we died. So if you started your married life 40 or 50 years ago by buying a $27,000 house, traded up a few times and are leaving behind a house worth about $500,000, your inheritors can sell the house without having to pay capital gains tax or having to figure out what your tax basis in the house was.

This “tax-free step-up” also helps your heirs should you happen to leave behind, in a taxable account, stock that you bought 25 years ago and whose quarterly dividends you’ve been reinvesting for decades. Thanks to the tax-free step-up, your heirs don’t have to try to figure out how much you paid for each part of the holding.

So, you see, this provision of the tax code provides substantial breaks for the 99.8 percent. And these breaks might well be limited or even eliminated if the estate tax is repealed, to help cover the cost of eliminating the tax for the 5,000 to 6,000 estates a year that are subject to it.
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former9thward

(32,082 posts)
2. Everything until the last sentence was fairly factual.
Sun Oct 1, 2017, 10:57 PM
Oct 2017

Then the last sentence became total speculation without a piece of evidence to back it up.

flamingdem

(39,324 posts)
4. Of course it's not hashed out yet but generally the idea is to squeeze the middle class so the uber
Sun Oct 1, 2017, 11:00 PM
Oct 2017

wealthy gets their cuts.

I've heard it from a number of those in the middle already, they will loose deductions or it just won't make sense to do deductions and in the end they'll be worse off. Especially with home ownership.

They're going to grab it from somewhere.

roamer65

(36,747 posts)
8. When one looks at the proposal very closely...
Mon Oct 2, 2017, 12:10 AM
Oct 2017

the people who definitely are going to take the biggest hit are the middle class who have been itemizing their deductions.

If you have been routinely taking the standard deduction, you will likely see a tax cut with the increase in it. Especially in the case of single middle class people taking said deduction.

I am against it because it does not increase the top rate to 50 percent.

Yupster

(14,308 posts)
6. I don't think much of it is accurate
Sun Oct 1, 2017, 11:17 PM
Oct 2017

First of all under current law if you are married and buy a house for $ 100,000 and sell it 25 years later for $ 550,000 you pay zero capital gains tax now under current law. That was part of the Bush tax cuts and it was made permanent.

Next, the author talks about buying a house and trading up a couple of times. Long ago the law was that if you sold a house, you had to put the money back into another house or you'd have to pay capital gains tax on your gains. Again, this was removed by the same Bush tax cut. You don't pay tax on gains less than $ 500,000 (married) whether you put the money into a new home or not. It sounds like the author still thinks the Clinton and earlier laws are in force.

As far as the last sentence is concerned, you are right. The two items are not related and I haven't heard of any plans to link them. It could happen I guess. Congress can pretty much do whatever they can get enough votes to do.

PS - I think the $ 5.5 million inheritance limit is about right. Give Obama credit for this one. The Bush tax cuts called for the elimination of the estate tax gradually. In one of the December budget deals, Obama and the congress compromised at a permanent rate of $ 5.5 million (goes up with inflation) which I think is reasonable. Before Bush the limit was $ 600,000 forever, and that was too low. That hit lots of middle class families that owned a house in a city.

shraby

(21,946 posts)
3. For the vast majority of us, that house we bought at $50,000 a decade or more ago
Sun Oct 1, 2017, 10:59 PM
Oct 2017

had a lot of taxes paid on it already (property taxes), upkeep put into it, and a whole lot of money in interest paid through the years. In my thinking, it is a zero-sum game for most of us, even if we sell it at a "profit", there is no way we would recover what we have paid out for it over the years.

As far as inheritance tax, that is the least of the majority of people also. Most have lost big in the stock market since 2000 in their 401 accounts. (Great Idea there to push that money upward wasn't it?)

Savings accounts pay nothing anymore, 401k ends up losing a lot, CDs pay nothing in interest. Where are these big estates to pass down anyway? Give you one fat guess.

flamingdem

(39,324 posts)
5. I think there's a danger here. Sure many people will not be impacted but the middle class and yes
Sun Oct 1, 2017, 11:03 PM
Oct 2017

the somewhat upper middle class will be too.

They're pushing us all down to the bottom so they can be uber wealthy.

They know it won't be like ACA with sick children, in fact they'll rely on class friction to divide us.

That move on raising taxes on the poorest from 10-12% is just plain nasty. I'm glad to see some middle class people reacting negatively about that, it's terrible.

Yupster

(14,308 posts)
7. You need a new money manager
Sun Oct 1, 2017, 11:20 PM
Oct 2017

If you've lost big in the stock market since 2000 and haven't made money in your 401k, you need to take a careful look at where your money is.

On edit, the best thing that's ever happened to the stock market was President Obama. I benefited greatly from his careful stewardship of the economy.

flamingdem

(39,324 posts)
9. Thanks for saying that. I agree, people need to tough it out and work with a manager
Mon Oct 2, 2017, 12:30 AM
Oct 2017

who knows the market.

It's been going up, so those who are wallowing made the wrong moves pretty much.

In fact it's the smart ones who bought and held through bad times that will be punished by this tax reform.

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