Stop this man before he kidnaps again!

Either that, or he says she must pay the rent---even though she can't pay the rent.

but others may find offensive. i chose to call him on the bullshit. you have a problem with that? you know, that good ole boys lockerroom bullshit talk to feel like a man at 13.

Right? I have a problem with the act of ascribing qualities to peoples' words that aren't there. Yeah. And using it to attack them.

if you read below, you will see me put my two cents in with the op

feel better?

the Earth is ROUND. You're just as much before the sea as beyond it, making you more "around" the sea...

I mean, since we're being intensely literal in our use of words and all...

dont be surprised if a woman calls a man out for that garbage. want to play, reducing women to things, go at it.

be willing to be called out.

it wasn't that severe

what happens when a woman actually challenges a man this bullshit. though, i can totally get your point too harsh and too often. i know, without a doubt, i turn a lot of people off. that does not get past me. i get it.


i had just read the thread on a german co buying prostitutes for their top employees. stamping their arms when the woman was "used". i had just read this poster state, wanna get back in the workforce to get some of that.

so, if i was feeling a bit of disgust immediately coming into this thread, there is that

I had an experience on the subway in NY. young guy, drunk beyond belief, his pants fell down, he was passed out, and he had exposed himself. No one would do anything, and some people were taking pictures. I couldn't stand it...that was someone's son, or brother, maybe even some kids dad...

I helped the guy up, made him get his pants up, and got him aware of where he was.

We start treating people like objects, we lose our humanity.

I understand.

it says it all.

thank you

for telling me the story
and being the person that helped the young man.

something happened recently where i had to stand up to 17 and speak out. i asked hubby, do you think that is easy. do you think it is easy to stand up and speak out to 17. it isnt. but it was right.

it would not be easy to help the man against the whole, (as i would glare at those taking pictures and just standing there) but it would be right.

but I do not think that figure of speech was intended to mean what you suggests it does or can mean.

it is sophomoric play by grown men to try to be all that, feel like a man and have some kind of ownership. it is bullshit. and i called it bullshit.

on edit... i had just read the thread on a german co buying prostitutes for their top employees. stamping their arms when the woman was "used". i had just read this poster state, wanna get back in the workforce to get some of that.

so, if i was feeling a bit of disgust immediately coming into this thread, there is that

on her plastic surgeon. I'm sure he lives much better than the rest of us just doing her surgeries.

Her shape comes from fitness/lean muscle mass and genetics. Any "work" she has had is very subtle. Unlike Mrs. Gingrich, who's had too much work already.....

Look at the family pic below. Definitely genetics!

and do not have a waist that trim after giving birth.

I'm not saying her muscles and veins don't show through her aging skin. It is natural for someone her age who is extremely thin to have muscles and veins show through that way. However, unless she's a freak of nature, she'd customarily have some sort of a belly, her waist wouldn't be indented like her daughter's, and her face would not be lifted. If I were to wave a magic wand over her, undoing all her surgeries, voila, she'd look like her real self at this age.

who have rock hard bodies, very trim waists and yes, they've had kids. It's simply not true that no women have that -- there are plenty who do.

Ahem! Delusional. Women hide their visits to the plastic surgeon not only from men, but from women, their best friends, and even families.

Delusional? I've done a study? What the hell!? I simply disagreed with you -- I've had different experiences than you and do, in fact, know women who have incredible figures despite having had kids. They've always taken care of themselves, worked out and none of them ever had a problem with weight, which is probably the key difference -- being trim and fit is their norm and always has been.

I didn't respond to you in a nasty way, I simply disagreed. You, on the other hand, have held true to form along with your I hate brats thread and the nasty way you responded to people on that thread. Guess I'll just have to dust off that ignore option and add my first and only DUer.

but i am getting older and i think genetics and luck has a lot to do with it, too. and lifestyle. i had two kids and my body just was not effected like i have seen with some. didnt even get the dreaded stretch marks, lucky me, and i was prepared for it. that is hardly something a women does to herself. just get it or not.

as far as the stomach muscles, even in working out, there are shifts in the body. happens with both genders. and the skin does change. a reality

not gonna ever look 20, but can look just fine, too. i do believe it is easier for some than others. we can look at my family and see why it is.

so i am back and forth in this discussion.

plays a role in it, along with healthy living.

I know a woman who is almost sixty. She's had five children, all natural. (Makes a difference-it's much harder to keep a tummy toned when you've had a c-section.) She gained exactly what she needed during the pregnancies and not much more. She exercises every single day and chooses to walk/bike everywhere she is able. She eats very healthy, mostly from her garden. (Her meat is from her husband and a son who hunt, or from a couple of local families we all know who raise hormone-free.) She eats very little sugar, no junk, almost no caffeine. She's a regular volunteer with local community projects and in the church. Oh, and she doesn't believe in plastic surgery unless it's "absolutely necessary". (We're talking more about reconstruction.) She made a comment about how it's better to age naturally instead of looking fake. She's also diligent about wearing large brimmed hats while outside and sunscreen.

Where do the genetics come in? Her mother looks fantastic for her age too.

I think some are blessed, some work hard at it, and some pay for it. I think those who pay are the most obvious.

far far from perfect. and that is cool, too.

i couldnt be that good if i try. and i have no desire to try. and without, i get to totally accept and embrace the results. that is ok.

good for that woman, though. lol. i guess. ah ha

on edit... the thing with cosmetic surgery? so many people, even those with money, do not look good. and if it does not help someone who has money for the BEST doctor, i dont need it.

There will be an event at church. She pours herself a glass of water, I grab the coffee and donuts, lol. (I guess since she's not eating them it means there are more for me!)

I really believe that some of us, no matter how hard we work, will not age well. There are others that live a hard life and won't age well. There are some who have great genes and will hold up better than average for many years. And then there are that tiny percent who work their butts off, stay extremely healthy, and have fantastic genes. (Those women are the ones I want to shove pans of brownies in front.)

Cosmetic surgery-a very small amount can make a huge difference, if the surgeon is skilled and the patient does everything in their power to keep up in other ways. (Example: a simple eye tuck or a chin lift can take someone who looks older and make them appear younger.) Personally, I think the problem comes with patients who want too much for very little effort and have expectations that cannot be met. Instead of one or two procedures they want multiple procedures, they want them all at once, and they keep them up over the years. They become almost cartoon-like when they quit being realistic about how they can look.

occassionally. all in moderation, makes jane a happy girl.

happy takes us a long way.

interesting about the cosmetic surgery. thanks.

I've noticed that her mother doesn't seem to gravitate towards sweets and other junk either. She usually sticks with veggies and fruit for her snacks. Maybe if you were raised that way you wouldn't know any different.

And not a problem. I personally am not a fan of cosmetic surgery but have noticed that people who do it just for a "tweak" tend to look pretty good. It's the ones who go overboard and are not realistic that look awful. I also believe that they have to realize that there is a time when a person has to stop, no matter what.

in thinking that public figures do not have *EVERYTHING* surgical done to themselves. I honestly believe people, particularly men, have lost complete notion of what women look like WITHOUT plastic surgery, and have begun to believe that the plasticized women are the norm, and the rest have somehow 'let themselves go.'

The media is to blame to a great degree. However, ourselves have to be aware.

There was another post in which this precise thing was being discussed, that because public figures, particularly females, are going under the knife in vertiginously high numbers, the concept now is that females that are middle aged and older, have a stomach so flat and firm you can bounce a dime on it, when the reality is the opposite. In fact, most humans don't have a stomach like that.

What's really shocking is when people say, "Oh she looks really good for her age" about public figures whose primary activity is fighting time with plastic surgery.

And yes, genes do have something to do with it, and in that southern mediterraneans and dark skinned people might perhaps hold up a tiny bit better. However, it still applies. In middle age, fat redistributes, the belly area begins to collect fat, skin sags, hair begins to lose its color, teeth move from their places, skin thins out, collagen disappears at a fast rate, and the only way to pretend to be younger, is to go visit the friendly Dr. and pay tens of thousands of dollars per procedure to fight the ravage of time.

If this society weren't so obsessed with youth and living in the pretense that old age is an anomale, rather than a natural and normal thing, we would be more sensible about it, and stop dreaming that a woman (or a man) in the 50s and 60s, has a washboard stomach and a tiny waist without the local plastic surgeon's help.

public figures and you know it. The post I made was about women I know, period. I said nothing, nada, nil about public figures.

Here's the entirety of my post:

completely different, regardless of whether they spend 5 hours at the gym per day or not.

I was not referring to skin tone, but muscle shapes and bodyfat % - and if genetics make you a "freak of nature", then she is one - but look at her daughters!

though I believe you could be right on the facial stuff, and I appreciate your intent and other posts throughout the thread.

I'm speaking from personal experience.

I thought my own belly pudge was just inevitable aging, all the women in my family get it once they get older, or at least the ones with kids. But I'm just a couple years younger than her, I was in shape in my 20s (maxing the army pt test), gained 40 pounds over the years, and started the fourhourbody program 6 months ago and no wheat. I don't have the belly pudge any more, I have the beginnings of cut lines in my lower abs (for the first time ever - at 47) and dropped from a size 14 to an 8. I'm not quite as thin as her, but I can see that would be attainable for me. The loose gut muscle thing may be inevitable for some women - but it's definitely not an indisputable fact that the only way you can get it at 50 is with surgery.

get back his young guy figure (I never knew him as a young guy, but I'd seen photos). He began to swim, run, work out with weights like a maniac. Here's what happened:

He lost LOTS of weight!!! He wasn't heavy to begin with, but he got what I call, 'skeletal' because he was struggling to get a concave stomach like he had when he was young.

Anyway, to continue....

1) He developed muscles. The muscle he developed looked 'funny' and not like those of younger guys. It also stuck out like globules of something-or-other under his older, thinner skin.

2) His belly looked bizarre. It wasn't this tight thing it was when he was younger. It was some slightly fluffier thingamajiggy, which looked weird when he became skeletal in his struggle to look young again. He began to say he needed a tummy tuck to "gather" all the skin. He never did, but he sure said it.

3) The muscles he developed in his tummy were just not pretty.

4) His face got an emaciated, older look, and his undereye area made him look sad and exhausted.

5) I begged him to gain weight again.

Here's a run-down of why it's impossible to continue looking young, and what happens when everyone hits middle age:

Skin doesn't react to exercise. It's older, saggier, distended, doesn't have as much color.

Middle aged bodies don't have the attractive muscles and don't get large muscles. They get these globules.

Middle aged bodies don't have collagen to give that lovely smoothed out, buff look, so their muscles just 'sit there' looking weird.

Veins stick out in all those middle aged people who struggle hard at the gym in an attempt to look young. (Like Madonna - excellent example - look at her arms. And by the way, she's had everything done everywhere).

Bodies begin in middle age REDISTRIBUTING fat. Whereas teens have fat in the buttocks, chest, thighs, that begins to change as they reach middle age. The fat then begins to move toward the center: the waist, the waist back, the upper abdomen, the lower abdomen, etc.

The chest in males droops and gets larger.

The chest in women droops.

I can go on.

This is NATURAL AGING, a fact of normal life. All those
kidding themselves that by eating uncooked, vegetable brownies, and working out till they're blue in the face, they're going to look any better, delude themselves. Most of them end up at the surgeon's office time and time again because they CANNOT HANDLE the fact that they're aging.

Aging is a natural, and UNAVOIDABLE part of life. It's best to come to terms with it. It is incredibly important to accept REALITY.

Solutions of the rich and famous old people to their aging:

*Filling the absence of collagen with fillers of all kinds
*Surgically removing skin that will not shrink because of age.
*Lipoing fat that has redistributed to areas that don't make a person look like they're 18.
*Hair dyes, makeups, Botox, and much more.
*New, expensive cars and clothes that look ridiculous on them
*Younger boyfriends, girlfriends, and spouses

Last edited Sun Jan 1, 2012, 02:34 PM - Edit history (1)

much of it is not related to seeing a middle aged slender woman in a dress and determining that she had lipo.
Chests sag, but women wear bras and I would assume in the photo she's wearing one.
We can't see through a dress if someone's skin is a little saggy or if their ab muscles are "smooth" - especially with body shaper garments.
The fat redistribution to an apple shape that we're used to seeing in older people, that you refer to as inevitable, was happening to me and I've reversed it (along with lowering blood sugar levels, cholesterol, blood pressure, etc.)

I think you're providing a service by making people recognize that normal aging is ... normal.

But I think you're providing a disservice by - intentionally or not - encouraging people past a certain age to not even bother eating healthier or working out, because the results "won't be pretty." If you lose the apple shape (fat around internal organs) you'll be healthier, and of course that's possible (barring other medical conditions, I mean - I'm not suggesting it's possible for everyone regardless of circumstances).

people who are aging but appear not to be, are engaging in plastic surgery and other artificial techniques to fight the ravage of time.

I think it's rather sad that we've lost the whole idea of the elderly being amazing, wise, respected, admired.

Instead, some are thrown into old age homes, where they cease to exist, and the rest are fighting it like beasts by allowing people with a medical degree to inject and cut them up repeatedly.

I do think it's good to try to eat healthy and walk. My grandparents (all 4) were born and raised in Spain. They walked a lot because in Europe, well, they walk a lot. They never saw the inside of a gym tho. They also ate a variety of foods, and got lucky not have to eat any GMO fruits and vegetables. However, they also mainlined lots of fatty meats. They all lived to over 100 or pretty close to it. None had injections in their face, their breasts, tummy tucks, none lifted weights, none did 50 sit-ups every morning, and they were all tremendously loved and respected.

Now? Now it's become the struggle to look 16 forever, a futile battle to try to remain young and pretend we don't die.

where you start equating cosmetic procedures with healthy lifestyles in the last two sentences. Lifting weights shouldn't be in the same sentence as breast augmentations or botox injections. Same with the earlier post where you seemed to be mocking vegans or people working to incorporate more vegetables into their diets.

When you lump them together, you dismiss the health benefits of weight bearing exercises - reducing heart disease, lowering the risk of osteoporosis, helping to maintain a healthy body weight which may help prevent or control diabetes, cholesterol, and high blood pressure. And the raw food vegan thing - I don't do either of those, but a couple people in my family do, and they are the only ones who have consistently stayed at a healthy weight, and they are the ones with the least impact on the environment. It seems to me we should be holding them up as role models, not mocking them as examples of people pathetically trying to "look 16."

getting healthy. In fact, I work out. When I have lived in Europe, I haven't had to, but because when I'm in the U.S. I live like everyone else, with wheels under me instead of legs, I have to work out in order to maintain myself in shape. Otherwise, I'll blow up like a balloon.

I do, however, think that the media has pushed and surrounded us with the idea that only the young are beautiful, healthy, gorgeous, etc., and the old are ugly, unworthy, and that we should all use the young as our standards. I couldn't disagree more. It's a battle everyone is bound to lose, and it's wrong. It also degrades the old.

I come from a culture in which the elderly are still upheld as amazing. They're respected, people love to be with them, they don't shove them aside in nursing homes and hide them, then run to the nearest plastic surgeon to fool the rest of society in a futile attempt to avoid the same fate.

We need to change that. We're living in a dream world created by the media, and (as we already know) the media pushes more crap than we can swallow because it's focused purely on capitalism and nothing else. We're swallowing plenty of it because it's the only media we have and it permeates our every hour.

(the part where we line up all the wives and rate their worth based on their looks).

It's 2011, can we move beyond that yet?

When the wingers lay off Michelle.

You should hold yourself to a higher standard.

edit... i hear ya

right wingers rely on racism and homophobia to win popular support. Should we do that also?

That just makes us look as bad as them...

It goes far beyond how it makes us "look". This kind of horseshit exists because it's how some of us ARE. The "they do it" excuse is just that - an excuse to attempt to cover up unacceptable behavior some of us are interested in doing whether "they" do it or not.

hey.... it is good to see you. happy new years

like them. Unrec.

I don't like these threads about physical appearance at all - whether against men or women.

Even if I were a right-winger planning to vote for Newt Gingrich, I might not vote for him because his wife is scary. It's not just being ugly or weird, I think there is something sickening about either her personality or his. Why would someone choose to present themselves in that manner? She looks super fake and plasticky or something. Has she had a ton of plastic surgery or what? Not a good role model for the kids, just my 2 cents.

Not who you are or what you accomplish, but what you look like. Be sure to capture the most unflattering photo, because that's the fun part.

bleah

Too much fun... at least better than discussing their husbands.. My wife thinks so too..

When she saw the photo of Calista in that green dress she screemed.. " EEEEEIIIIIIi Run Todo Run !!!"

I have no desire to evaluate these women based on looks, for goodness sakes! I'll wait 'till they say some damn fool ReTHUG thing to bash them!

& see if the media does the same with their husbands.

Oh wait - more than one female candidate? What the fuck was I thinking?

IMO, it's extremely shallow and immature.

maybe the next version will look a little more human

ultimately resulting in cancer, I don't think I'm the one you should be getting holier-than-thou with, okay?

MY eyes were due to my condition, Calista's had too much plastic surgery.

So go judge somebody else.

Seriously, you have a lot of nerve.

and still gloat over other people having it.

That blows my mind.

never expected people to be above being "human". I understand often someone is uncomfortable when someone looks different (I think it's almost a tribal/cellular thing) ridicule to feel more sure of ourselves.

But as I said, judge away. I really don't care.

is human.

but.... i am beginning to appreciate your posts as ..... WRONG as they are.

seems a little too easy, but .... ok

which is different.

2006 picture:


I wonder if, given the apparent decrease in lines since then, botox is to blame.

women and men want to get rid of that droopy, heavier eyelid we all get as we age, and the plastic surgeon takes off too much to allow it to look natural. My best friend's dad had that done and I thought, Sam, your eyes never looked like that!

1. Trying hard to be offended
2. Is not a problem Callista has.

Callista looks scary, like she really, really wants to be First Lady no matter what. Interesting that she's - Ms Perry, that is - the only one whose bio mentions a job.

ETA: Yeah, why are they all blondes? I know practically no women who are still blonde at that age, and that includes me (my family tends to start out as blonds, but our hair darkens with age. Mine was turned brown when I was ~8, my sister stayed blonde until her 40s)

And for the record, I agree that it's sexist and wrong to make fun of women's appearances. I am a woman. We should be above this.

Meow.

is very attractive.

I'll stop there.

I'd be looking forward to waving goodbye as #5 went off to college!

Impressive.

Apparently it's important to them to keep with her Hindu faith. I read that in an article tonight that Vogue did.

good looking family.

All that plastic but it didn't fit the mold.

*To be fair, Mrs. Paul and Mrs. Bachmann are grays. But that doesn't alliterate as well...

** I was going to say "Blonde on Blonde" but that conjured up one of Rick Santorum's earlier comments...***

***Sorry if that image is burned into you brain...

will always be Dylan...

Which in itself is a little disquieting. They could all easily be Democrats if you went by looks alone.

Oh! And their children are all very good looking too.

both of which are hypnotically bizarre and disturbing. I agree all the others have at least one good photo there.

...to look like Stepford wives?

They all have the same hairdo, same face, and the same vapid look. WTH?

from the planet Shellackadon.

If you set aside their husbands' (and presumably their own) politics, none of the women are ugly. Mrs. Paul is in her 70s, I would guess, so of course she won't look like a supermodel. Callista Gingrich has certain features that don't play well in photographs. Some of them could loosen up their hairstyles a bit - again, Mrs. Gingrich and Mrs. Perry come to mind.
All that said, however: As a woman, I think it's unfair to judge other women by their appearance, although it is so pervasive in our society, I catch myself doing it more often than I should, and I'm not proud of it.

Noooooooooooo!

are you dissapointed they aren't 18 year old svelte fuckmes?

He doesn't have style?

she's cute. She's not glamorous like Huntsman and Romney wives. She just an everyday, average, cute lady. Callista is a wax museum figure.

I can hear a wingnut asking the same silly question about hair color and/or style.

Especially in the photo chosen for the article.

That rotten little witch could be twice that by her looks.

Evil rots from within.

"young and pretty enough to be the wife of the POTUS."

is hot. Newt's wife is down right scary. Santorum's wife looks like my next door neighbor. I think Rick Perry's wife is Ok a little overweight I guess. Paul's wife looks like the crazy aunt locked in the cellar. Bachman's wife looks a little like Liberace in his older years..

on edit: After looking at Newt's wife again I think I saw her on a Star Trek episode back in the day.

Truthfully, Eleanor Roosevelt was hardly what could be called a good looking woman, but she was a tremendous first lady. Betty Ford, was a beautiful woman in her day and also a great first lady. In short, the outside has nothing to do with what kind of first lady they would be.

PB

peace

damn, i respect that.

peace to you, too and happy new years.

i use to think i was not impressed with your posts, many years ago. not that i remember why. but the last handful of posts i have read of yours (well, more than a handful) damn, what a man.

And minorities, and fat people, and the disabled.

Really sad. Even if they are Repukes. This is done to Democrats too.

is that if these were the same women save for the politics of the husbands, they'd be the most comely women in the world.