General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsMovment for the Reasonable Regulation of Firearms,,,,,,
Think of the carnage that would have taken place is the shooter had selected the Barret M82 rifle as his killing tool of choice.!
range 1 mi
https://img.washingtonpost.com/wp-apps/imrs.php?src=
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/02/26/tennessees-new-official-state-rifle-is-so-powerful-it-can-destroy-commercial-aircraft/?utm_term=.3aa50741cd7c
Time Now for Reasonable Regulation of Firearms
if not,, it will only continue to get worst!
Lars39
(26,109 posts)#MeltThemDown
pangaia
(24,324 posts)Initech
(100,076 posts)Sandy Hook should have been the last straw, but those fucking assholes stooped to the all time new low of justifying the murdering of children. And it's only got worse from there - Paris, Orlando, and now Vegas. It's time to actually fucking to stand up to the GOP and to kick the NRA in the balls! Same for that rat bastard Alex Jones. Enough is enough. Vegas really crossed a line.
ClarendonDem
(720 posts)Have to do with the NRA or American gun laws generally?
Initech
(100,076 posts)Thanks to our extremely loose gun laws. So if it happened there it could happen anywhere.
Only one pistol from America. The Balkans are where European terrorists are getting their weapons from.
Officials say the increase in foreign fighters returning from conflicts abroadsome 5,000 Europeans have joined ISIS and other jihadist groups in Iraq and Syriais especially worrying considering the vast pool of weapons available in nearby Eastern Europe and North Africa, the detritus of past and current wars. Its a relatively new phenomenon, but theres a growing number of people who have been trained to use automatic weapons, assault rifles and grenade launchers, says Ivan Zverzhanovski, who heads the U.N. Development Programs project in Belgrade to control small arms in southeastern and eastern Europe. That will cross-fertilize in a way with the Balkans.
For E.U. officials, the Paris and Copenhagen attacks this year have confirmed a suspicion that illegal weapons are flowing freely through Europes 26-country Schengen zone, which allows near frictionless travel across borders, and that European leaders are lagging behind in cracking down on the trade. We have so many weapons in Paris, Christophe Crépin, spokesman for Frances national police union, told TIME a few days after the Nov. 13 attacks. There are links between organized crime and terrorists, and a route that goes from the Balkans.
http://time.com/how-europes-terrorists-get-their-guns/
hack89
(39,171 posts)they got the assault rifles from the Balkans which are awash with weapons after decades of war.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)lax gun laws and racism.
hack89
(39,171 posts)It does not appear to be an issue they want to embrace too closely.
hack89
(39,171 posts)for one thing, you can't bump fire a Barret. Secondly the recoil is pretty heavy so it is nearly impossible to shoot fast and keep your gun on target - his rate of fire would have been much slower.
Barret's are nothing more than rich men's toys - expensive to buy, very expensive to shoot.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)m82 50 cal projectiles is a killing machine,,,, 223 are not , they are designed to create wounded soldiers not kill them, one single M82 projectiles would be capable of killing multipal people in a crowd of over 20,000 shooter would not have to aim,,,, just point and shoot.
hack89
(39,171 posts)for one thing, he was shooting downwards - if a bullet penetrated a person it would continue downwards into the ground. If he was firing horizontally then perhaps.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)after passing thru one body ,,,, that bullet likely to go anywhere....... u can hit a person in his hand and blow his arm off....
but what ever,,, we need reasonable firearm regulation!
sarisataka
(18,655 posts)A 50 cal round is not going to skip on lightweight things such as dirt, human bodies or engine blocks.
Marengo
(3,477 posts)Is known to exist which indicates a desire to adopt a cartridge intended primarily to wound. I recommend you cease mentioning that, it further erodes what little credibility you have on the issue.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts).223 ammo and 5.56 ammo are not the same ammo.
Funny that so many states outlaw deer hunting with .223 DIA ammo because it wounds without killing.
and the list goes on, and on, and on,,,
but someday i hope to be as smart as u are..........
hack89
(39,171 posts)for each caliber I can buy numerous combinations of bullets (weight and type) and powder. Even the military has gone through several iterations of 5.56 mm bullets.
The limit on hunting deer with a .223 is because, unlike war, a first shot kill is desired every time to minimize animal suffering. That does not not mean the .223 is not a very lethal round.
Neither round was designed to wound.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)not to argue that if u shot 600 people at 300 yds with a M82 , only 59 victims would be fatalities
hack89
(39,171 posts)to understand that shooting a M82 like an AR-15 is not possible. For one, you can't bump fire it so your rate of fire is slower. Secondly the recoil is massive so it takes more time to get the barrel back on target. Thirdly, it has a 10 round magazine so you are reloading a lot more.
This is a major distraction - can you actually show where .50 rifles have been used in mass shootings? Handguns are weapon of choice for mass shooters.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)the first to be able to afford M82's .
Every mass murderer to their own poison, heh?
What every ur weapon of choice,,,Both weapons need reasonable regulation at the Federal level.
hack89
(39,171 posts)if you want to piss away opportunities to make real change than more power to you. Just makes it easier for the NRA.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)hack89
(39,171 posts)The NRA would love to argue .50 cal rifles with you for the next several years instead of hand guns.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)My Op was about how it could have been worst that it was ,, and going to get worst the longer we go without Reasonable Federal Regulation of firearms I'm not the one wanting to argue which unregulated firearm is worst......
hack89
(39,171 posts)which was my point.
Marengo
(3,477 posts)For low lethality in a military application?
Marengo
(3,477 posts)That .223 isn't designed specifically for low lethality either. If you were sufficiently knowledgeable, you would also know that many states DO allow .223 for hunting deer.
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)Reading is Fundamental.
Critical Reading is Critically Fundamental!
Marengo
(3,477 posts)Specifically for wounding and low lethality?
Cryptoad
(8,254 posts)u would know that Military wanted a gun that would create wounds like the AK47, since a the AK47 wounded had far more personnel requirements than those wounded by the ole m14 we were using on the battlefield. In other words those AK47 wounded were reducing numbers available to fight, and we were sucking hind teat. This is how the AR15 came to be, not because of killing attributes.
here is old 1962 Army report where they evaluated the new concept AR!% to m14 and AK47
http://www.dtic.mil/cgi-bin/GetTRDoc?Location=U2&doc=GetTRDoc.pdf&AD=ADA050268
here are some more reports on caring for the AK47 wounded on the battlefield , et al;
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=6&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjWiqiTneTWAhVK5CYKHdwtDG0QFgg4MAU&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmilitarymedicine.amsus.org%2Fdoi%2Fpdf%2F10.7205%2FMILMED-D-11-00305&usg=AOvVaw0Y0SbrOM5UGpzd1eXKYLa-
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=7&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjWiqiTneTWAhVK5CYKHdwtDG0QFgg9MAY&url=http%3A%2F%2Fmilitarymedicine.amsus.org%2Fdoi%2Fpdf%2F10.7205%2FMILMED.171.8.687&usg=AOvVaw2DHIRDcWp4XM4XlJN3EWrD
so read and see if u can learn anything,,,,, I know its hard to do when u know as much as u already do..... but this is my last time of being ur research monkey.....
bye
Marengo
(3,477 posts)Concern for the .223/5.56 was low lethality. Simply nothing.
I read the Rifle Evaluation Study some years ago. Some salient points:
Page 2: "The ultimate material objective is a lightweight, multipurpose weapon, which fired from the shoulder, has the selective capability of either point or area fire with a high kill probability." Note the use of "kill" as opposed to wound or wounding.
Page B7: "In no way does the AK47 fulfill the individual weapons requirement as an individual weapon the the US Army infantryman."
One finds discussion of lethality throughout the entire document. Wounding potential, as a design element for the purpose of removing enemy personnel from the battlefield, is NOT stated as a primary consideration.
What was desired was a rifle capable of comparable rate and volume of fire, but with greater effective range and superior lethality.
Marengo
(3,477 posts)Marengo
(3,477 posts)My home state of Utah, Arizona, and Idaho as examples. If the cartridge was designed for low lethality, how can this be?
Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)Rather it falls into a broad category based on size for states that set minimum cartridge sizes.
And those laws are typically 50-75+ years 9old and based on very old scientific data, when they were even based on data at all and not just someone's random idea of what is good enough and what isn't.
In some parts of NC only shotguns are allowed, it doesn't mean 30-06 isn't up to the job just because of the law.
In fact a friend of mine hunts deer and hogs exclusively with 223 and it does just fine.
The whole "designed to wound" thing is nothing but a long lasting urban legend.
Takket
(21,572 posts)JoeStuckInOH
(544 posts)You know why gun control with any real traction ultimately always fails? Overreach. Because groups pushing for gun control stand on the tragedy like a soap box and push to ban items that are in no way related to the tragedy at hand. Or they try to lump things into the legislation and make it so inclusive of many items that it turns away too many yes votes.
"Oh, this is our chance... lets get everything we can!"
Happened after Newtown.
Happened after VA Tech.
And this article is a great example... Talking about banning unwieldy 30-pound Barrett rifles with 10 round magazines designed to shoot a mile, when the shooter used a rapid fire bump stock rifle with high capacity mags at 350yds.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)maxsolomon
(33,345 posts)didn't you notice? guns won.
at this point, even underreach is a pipe dream. bi-annual rampage massacres are the new normal.
Paladin
(28,262 posts)Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)It would work good from the top of my van
BigmanPigman
(51,593 posts)I was walking with a girlfriend on a fairly safe and moderately busy street in San Diego on a Sunday night at about 9PM about 30 years ago. We heard "whisssss" as the bullet went past our faces and shattered the glass door of a business 6 feet to my left. We turned and saw a pick up truck that kept going. We went to the closest club/bar to call the police and make a report and no one seemed concerned at all, as if it happens to everyone everyday.
My whole family is anti gun and we were raised that way. I never understood why someone would want to harm an animal or a person. I guess I am in the minority as usual.
krispos42
(49,445 posts)...which are significantly more powerful than the .223.
Bullet energy exists on a spectrum. There are literally hundreds of cartridges that have power between the .223 Rem and the.50 BMG.
I believe the death toll in America from a .50 BMG is still zero.
Paladin
(28,262 posts)Back then, some of the livelier (charitable term) DU pro-gunners couldn't help themselves. They kept speculating about how many more bodies the shooters could have stacked up, if they'd been using a for-real sniper rifle, chambered for, say, a .308 cartridge. Instead of that wimpy-assed Bushmaster .223 they used. Really distasteful stuff.
I believe there's a compliment for you there, krispos42. You're welcome.
Marengo
(3,477 posts)ileus
(15,396 posts)A bolt action 50 caliber...
Shoot 3-5 times and reload.
jmg257
(11,996 posts)Youch.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)But dont worry: it will. Some lunatic a mile away will assassinate someone important or butcher a bunch of people (individually or over time).
Then people will gunsplain that because youre not more familiar with the _____, youre not qualified and the point is moot.
There wasnt overreach after Sandy Hook. There was an attempt to get universal background checks, which 90% of Americans support and totally forgot about a month later. Mandatory registration, mandatory database, mandatory CDC/NIH-funded research into gun violence, and limits on magazine size. Those are not unrealistic goals.