opening my smartass mouth..............

Grazie

The man's been portrayed onscreen by Gerard Depardieu. Hasn't he suffered enough?

Columbus can rot in hell.

It celebrates Italian-Americans and their contribution to the US. Much like St. Patrick's Day celebrates Irish-Americans.

If not Italian-American heritage and culture.

It is plain who is celebrates.

The day is named after Columbus and the holiday was created to celebrate his "discovery of the new world". He landed in a foreign land, enslaved the natives and profited from their exploitation. Howard Zinn described it best in A Peoples History of the United States,

Here is why it is a NATIONAL holiday here. And yes, it WAS created as a day SPECIFICALLY to honor Italian Americans

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/answer-sheet/wp/2015/10/11/why-is-columbus-day-still-a-u-s-federal-holiday/?utm_term=.8e55ed240590

Has a degree in history, so take your petty insults elsewhere.

Facts are facts. Degree or not.

"In 1892, President Benjamin Harrison said the entire country should observe “Discovery Day” to mark the 400th anniversary of Columbus’s landing. It was formally designated as a recurring national holiday on Oct. 1, 1934, when President Franklin D. Roosevelt proclaimed that Oct. 12 would be a day to display the American flag and engage in “appropriate ceremonies in schools and churches” every year. (It was later changed to the second Monday of October.)"

Explain to me how SPECIFICALLY commemorating the ANNIVERSARY OF COLUMBUS'S LANDING is a celebration of General Italian American heritage??

In the Dominican Republic has to do with the lakota Sioux.

If Italian Americans use this day as a reason to celebrate their heritage, that's fine. i'm stunned however that I'm having to debate whether or not that is why the holiday was started, because it simply wasn't.

It was to win the Italian American vote. It's well documented and it's why we celebrate

Roosevelt made it a National Holiday, Yes. He made it a National Holiday for Italian American votes, yes. BUT THE DAY WAS ALREADY BEING CELEBRATED FOR CENTURIES PRIOR IN ORDER TO CELEBRATE THE LANDING OF COLUMBUS. I understand Irish people enjoy celebrating their Irish heritage on St. Patrick's day, but that doesn't change the fact that holiday is about St. Fucking Patrick.

But it is celebrated differently here. Fucking context matters. It's the ITALIAN AMERICAN holiday here and has been for decades.

I don't fucking care WHY they celebrate it in Argentina or what it COULD mean. I only care why we celebrate it here. It's the ITALIAN AMERICAN holiday in America. That is WHY it was made a national holiday. It has jack shit to do about Columbus the man. Hate away if you want. I don't care, but it's not indigenous people day. It's not their holiday.

It has jack shit to do with Columbus, that's why the holiday doesn't have anything to do with his last name or anything..

Americans. Just like all the Protestants here turned a Catholic feast day into an Irish holiday.

Guess what, Protestants in Ireland don't celebrate St. Patrick's Day.

It was made a national holiday for Italians here in America. I'm sorry that chaps your ass because it does not fit your narrative, but facts are facts.

It was created as a holiday for Italian Americans.... To celebrate Christopher Columbus. It wasn't until the following years when Italian Americans interpreted the holiday as a way to celebrate Italian American Heritage.
The holiday was started to celebrate Columbus-Fact
Most people now use it as Italian American day-Fact

This has never been about how people choose to celebrate the day, It's a simple fact the day was started to honor Columbus. How anybody could possibly dispute that is beyond me.

It's about celebrating being italian, not Columbus. You just said so yourself. What it once was is no longer what it is. Meanings change.

Just like my St. Patrick example. In fact, that's a really good example. Shall we abolish St. Patrick's Day because of the attrocities committed by the IRA?

You know what, the Catholics banned abortion in Ireland! They are opressing women's right to choose!

How can we celebrate St. Patrick's Day here? It's like celebrating women's oppression.

I am going to boycott the 17th of March and those fuckers in Boston better not hold a parade!

Correct, Columbus day was started to celebrate Christopher Columbus and is now generally used to celebrate Italian American heritage.
As long as my initial point of the origins of the holiday being directly linked specifically to the life of one man (Columbus) made it across... I can live with that.

And let me know if you still get that vibe after doing so.

One note: Columbus Day was declared a holiday by Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

The holiday was mainly rejected by anti-immigrant groups, particularly those who were prejudiced against Italian-Americans (which was most Anglo-Americans, at the time).

But we can't. Because they're dead.

It was not started to celebrate Italian American Heritage, that is a historical fact. It was started to celebrate the voyage and landing of Columbus. Now when the dark side of history regarding Columbus is brought up, the common argument is to say it's a day to celebrate Italian culture. Kind of like when the dark history of slavery is brought up, morons describe the confederate flag as a cultural symbol and say it isn't related to slavery, hence my original response. As years go by, more states have removed Columbus Day as a recognized holiday and begun replacing it with "Native Peoples Day" in order to celebrate the multiple cultures who were destroyed and exploited as a result of Columbus's voyage. Here's to hoping more states follow in the future.

This puts it better than I can:

I agree. A comparison cannot be easily made between statues of Christopher Columbus and statues of Confederate Generals, as the Columbus statues were built with good intentions at the time while the confederate statues were built to honor men who supported slavery, I agree. I also feel now that a greater picture of Columbus has been made available to the public through research and published text, those statues of Columbus don't stir the same emotions they did when they were erected even though they were initially intended as a positive celebration. Columbus is not the hero everyone once believed he was when he sailed the ocean blue in 1492, and to ignore that instead celebrate Italian American heritage does nothing to pay respect to the civilizations that were destroyed as a result of Columbus rambling across an already inhabited continent looking for new trade opportunities for the crown.

As you well know.

I would expect nothing less from you than this OP.

Grandpa was Sicilian and it was another great reason to put out a few snacks.

celebrate St. Anthony's Day in June. More equivalent to St. Patrick.

I think it is fine for people to use holidays as they see fit.

Personally I would like to forget about crime boss Joe Columbo's Italian-American Unity Day re-puposing in the 1970s.

Plenty of other things to celebrate about Itlalians in America though.

But at the time it started as a notion - 1860's, there were very few figure heads which could be claimed.

L-

Columbus Day is. The banks, post office, and schools don't close for St. Patrick's Day.

As a general statement in support of immigrants, particular Catholic immigrants who had been treated so awfully by many Anglo Protestants (and who were terrorized by the KKK).

Move the goalposts much?

Not exactly.

I’m assuming this is a joke - “went to each of the 50 states and planted an American flag.”

you need to begin using some of these to express, what I assume to be, humor

https://www.democraticunderground.com/emoticons/



or

die a horrible death, LOL

at least it was warned, lol

Thousands of years ago.

SOME came up from South America as well... The Inuit definitely look ASIAN...

I am glad Franklin Delano Roosevelt decided to support establishing a holiday to celebrate their accomplishments in spite of the bigotry against them at the time.

The native Americans come second?

Who was deeply involved in the slave trade.

These are just names. It doesn't matter. As long as the celebration is about Italian-American heritage and culture, then that is what matters.

I fully support an Indigenous Peoples Day also to celebrate those cultures as well.

Studying what we don't want to do again rather than white washing it with false glory.

Not being discriminated against anymore.

Fighting white christian terrorism since 1492

for his cruelty and tyranny.

No one is spending Columbus Day celebrating the cruelty and tyranny of the 15th century.

People are celebrating Italian-Americans and their heritage and culture.

explains Columbus's brutal legacy. He was condemned as especially brutal even in those times.

It is not about Columbus. It is about recognizing and celebrating Italian-Americans.

St. Patrick's Day is not about St. Patrick.

These are just names assigned to days celebrating immigrants who were historically discriminating against in the United States.

Having been to many Columbus Day parades and celebrations, I can promise you that no one there is celebrating the brutal legacy you reference.

There are cities across the US named after Columbus. America itself is named for Amerigo Vespucci who was deeply mired in the slave trade.

I don't think we'd be calling it St. Patrick's Day.

Again, it would make more sense to call it Italian-Americans Day.

The date wasn't plucked out of thin air. And the day isn't celebrated only in the US, it's celebrated in Ireland because Patrick is the patron saint of Ireland. He is not "just a name."

Celebrated with a small meal and Church.

It means something completely different here every March 17 as evidenced by my very drunk and very Protestant brother in law.

Opening it up to everybody so they'll spend a lot of money getting shitfaced.

Btw, there are parades & cultural events throughout Ireland on St Patrick's Day. It's not just celebrated with a "small meal" (whatever that is) and church.

Columbus Day was made a national holiday to honor Italian Americans here. What it means elsewhere is irrelevant. Or does that only work when it supports your argument?

of a large Italian population are “celebrating” it as Columbus “discovering” America.

"People are celebrating Italian-Americans and their heritage and culture..."

People are also posting insincere, self-congratulatory flame-bait and trying to pass it off as an earnest celebration simply to push buttons.

Yet I'm quite certain they'll remain cowering behind implication.

And the first measure of proof is the denial.

Just not in this instance, I guess.

Thanks

Anti genocide of the native population of these continents is the message. Columbus sparked genocide and cultural destruction. Not to mention that Vikings were here before he was. I will never celebrate this day. I will forgive Italy for Mussolini though.

...or any number of other "antis" that we can come up with.

only works sometimes. Damn.

Thank you (and the other two) for confirming.

Which is the point of the holiday.

It is to throw red meat to genocide denial

Seriously?

Have you ever been to a Columbus Day parade or celebration?

Do you live in a place with a significant Italian-American population?

all countries contributing genes to any current American should have a holiday, or none should. “Columbus Day” was intended to honor Columbus, not Italian Americans in general. And the reality of his atrocities are why many are now questioning it and want to change it.

Italians were not. We were lynched, tortured, and laws were passed against us in this country.

Columbus Day was made a national holiday to apologise for a lot of this to italian Americans.

I am amazed at the people posting here who don't even bother to fact check

who were persecuted in Chicago during the labor disputes because they wanted protection for workers. Not to mention having their books burned during WWI.

And Italians were interred during WWII just like the Japanese

Did they lynch Germans? Did they call child welfare if you spoke German at home?

No. They did not.

Show me.

And I know that Italian-Americans were horribly treated by Anglo-Americans, but so were the Chinese, Japanese, not to mention African-Americans and First Nations people.

Crow...it's what's dinner.


And where exactly did you earn your degree?

Which degree? Where did you earn yours? And in what?

I agreed that the Italian-Americans were treated like shit. What more do you want?

BA East Asian Studies - Hobart College
M.Ed. Curriculum and Instruction - University of MN

And it only restricted immigration, it didn't bar immigration from those countries.

I'm not here to say that Columbus was good, but white America treated us like dog shit. This is our day. It's about being italian american, not Columbus. He did not even sail for Italy.

Call it whatever it needs to be called, but this is our holiday and I will defend it, not necessarily the man.

I have advanced degrees in toxicology for what it's worth

I think it's unfortunate that it's Columbus Day. Why not Garibaldi Day? I mean there was a Union regiment called the Garibaldi Regiment.

But I know it's not going to get changed anytime soon.

As long as it remains italian. However, the Knights of Columbus have attached themselves to the game and the holiday. They are very powerful in the Church. The name won't be changed

I want a Slovak American Day! Think of the great food, music, and costumes!

Or maybe we just need a day to celebrate all immigrants? That would annoy the crap out of trump! LOL

I've been to many a St. Joseph's Day feast in my younger days, though nothing as big as the one in New Orleans.

If no humans crossed the Bering land bridge and the Americas remained unpopulated we would most likely still have a Columbus day, any debate would probably be around who was first him or Lief Erikson.

I do wonder if we would have had a Thanksgiving though..and I should probably stop typing before I go off into a stream of consciousness regarding turkey.

Columbus was the Harvey Weinstein of his time

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029689840

Shockingly, Columbus supervised the selling of native girls into sexual slavery. Young girls of the ages 9 to 10 were the most desired by his men. In 1500, Columbus casually wrote about it in his log. He said: “A hundred castellanoes are as easily obtained for a woman as for a farm, and it is very general and there are plenty of dealers who go about looking for girls; those from nine to ten are now in demand.”

Which is a celebration of Italian-American heritage and culture.

Did his actions emulate the ideal of Italian-American heritage and culture?

The statue honoring Columbo in Budapest:

Sorry...after reading this thread I just felt the urge to be outraged about something...

They are celebrating Italian-American heritage and culture.

That doesn't seem right. Maybe if the crowd in your photo were waving American flags along with the Italian flag I would buy what you're selling. But they're not.

A few years ago, I flew to New York on Columbus Day for a wedding. It took the taxi longer to get from LaGuardia Airport to my hotel in downtown Manhattan than it took the plane to fly from Atlanta to New York. The streets were full of happy revelers, and every block seemed to have some kind of party going on. I gave the cab driver a very nice tip for all his troubles...I'm sure it doesn't usually take him two hours to get from LaGuardia to downtown Manhattan!

LaGuardia. Michelangelo. Caruso. Funacelli. Garibaldi. Fermi. Verdi. Or maybe find out the names of the brave Italians who snitched on Columbus and his gang of thugs.

If that will help you.

You can also imagine that Columbus, OH is named Funacelli, OH, should you ever visit there.

Annette Funicello was a truly nice person. She probably inspired many people to be nice.

Now that was a true benefactor of humanity.

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Here's John Fugelsang's take:

#ColumbusDay is when ppl who think immigrants are thieves, rapists & murderers get to celebrate an immigrant who stole, raped & murdered.

Dick Gregory's B-Day is Oct. 12.

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