Guess we can keep hoping.

But I think it's on and building... all over the place this morning

that makes you think Pence and the rest are trying to get rid of him? What specifically?

But I think Corker is the bellwether.

I want indictments. Lots of them.

I want the dossier validated.

I want the truth about how he "won" this campaign to be known to all.

after 45 gets the 25, no pardons.

Complex investigations with an international scope take time. On the other hand, lunacy in the adult day care facility reigns supreme on a day-to-day basis. Any indictments as warranted would still be forthcoming. In the meantime, Pence presidency notwithstanding, a mentally disturbed and dangerous individual should not be kept a position to Tweet storm us into WWIII.

First, it's not permanent.

Second, it requires the VP and either a majority of the cabinet (never going to happen) or the VP and the majority of a body assigned the task of deciding whether the president is able to discharge duties of office (and Congress won't be able to enact a law designating that body and if they did, it would be vetoed and Congress wouldn't be able to override the veto).

Third, it's temporary. The president can reassert that he is able and then the process starts over again, except now it takes 2/3 vote of the House and the Senate (while impeachment only requires majority of House and 2/3 of Senate). And there is nothing to prevent the president from reasserting his fitness over and over and over again.

Fourth, member of Congress from both parties are going to be exceedingly reluctant to give the constitutional standard "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office" a broad reading. Can Trump discharge those duties? Yes. We just hate the way he's doing so. On the other hand, the standard for impeachment is much more flexible.

Be able to discharge the duties of president. In jail and all...

How do we know how it works? Has it been done?

which is procedurally simpler and politically less dangerous than going the 25th amendment route, where Trump remains, in effect, the president even after the VP begins exercising the duties of the office as "acting president".

The bottom line is that a repub cabinet, VP and Congress are never going to invoke the 25th amendment against Trump for being "unable to discharge the duties of his office" because his tweets are fucked up.

It would likely be if there is a clear and present risk of him launching a nuclear strike or war without being in sound judgement, potentially threatening the lives of millions of Americans. That sounds like what Corker is worried about most and so far the Republican leadership has all but explicitly sounded off with him.

It is clear that the courts have no jurisdiction to decide what constitutes an impeachable offense -- the Constitution confers the "sole" power to try impeachments on the Senate. On the other hand, whether or not the courts could review a determination that the president lacks the ability to discharge the duties and obligations of the office is an open question -- and one that almost certainly would be presented if an attempt was made to invoke the 25th amendment against a president who is physically capable to carry out those duties and obligations.

Does anyone really think that Pence would go along with this? Or that Trump wouldn't fight it -- causing Congress to revisit his ability to discharge his duties and obligations time and time and time again?

If they want to remove him, it will be through impeachment. Don't need the VP's support, don't need the cabinet's support and only need a majority in the House, not 2/3.

seems to be a well respected guy. His resume indicates that he has done some pretty decent things in his life. I'm wondering if he decided that Trump had to be stopped and then decided to retire from politics in order to try and make that happen. I'm sure his fellow senators know what he's up to. This may be wishful thinking on my part but, as you say, we can always hope.

Now if McCain,Flake,Graham, and a few others are getting concerned about the mental stability of 45 shit has to start happening hopefully before this fool starts a fucking war.

Wish I had 25¢ for every "I wish I had a dollar for every..." thread.

Even more hope.

I’ve heard there are informal lists, but that shit needs to come out to let trump know that he’s getting close to the end.

but remember that Mutt & Rutt have control of the Senate and Congress! They want their agenda & w/Trewp in office? He'll sign anything!

A rigid right-wing ideologue who would be signing those same bills, but from all appearance being sane nevertheless. Not a good choice, but given the more dire option is there any real "choice" to begin with?

But right now they are being dirtied up by him and proving how weak they are by taking it. As for the Dominionist, his support for the Rump not to mention his lies about Flynn will have him in possible crosshairs, not to mention that civil war will break out in the Con party and chaos will prevail. Also, the polls are moving against their agenda.

That it was Manafort who brought Pence to Trump, and Pence is up to his eyeballs in the Russian Scandal.

But most know what a complete ruination that would be. I envision the military wrestling him to the ground should he give that order.

But I think once he's out they won't let him back in. They may despise him as much as we do or be so scared he might find himself in a straight jacket

Anyone claiming that Trump is likely to be removed via the 25th Amendment hasn't closely read the 25th Amendment.

All said he would never be pres

and why it's done via the 25th amendment rather than impeachment.

And it's the 25th being bandied about freely today rather than impeachment

Indeed!

The GOP won't oust Trump. That would require decency

and for all we know may be more eager to bring about Armageddon.

It is the leadership of the Republican Party that needs the stake through the heart. (the garlic treatment just has not been working)

(Thus ever to the political vampires that are sucking the blood out of our democracy and replacing it with slow-flowing poison).

If they are proven guilty no Republican should be in the Oval Office.

....and I thought the old vampire movies were just fake news---little did I know).

Last edited Mon Oct 9, 2017, 07:24 PM - Edit history (1)

with the succession of pence to potus. Hopefully the bombast will quiet down and the RW won't appear to so publically be fascist while still promoting, encouraging, racism and sexism again....with a religious perspective as part of decision making processes, in succession speak....the battle won does not a war victory make...still tough hills to climb....

But I wonder about Pence...I think his adherence to 45 may have/will cost him much and I wonder how much the public will appreciate his Dominionist beliefs.

But I'm not expecting it. It takes the vice president and EIGHT cabinet members. And if doesn't accept to step down, it takes 2/3rds House and 2/3rds Senate.

As long as Trump has his base and is still popular in the south and midwest, no one in his cabinet is going to risk shattering their political career to turn their back on him.

Anything can happen...I think the next 6 months is going to be a wild ride

I AM ...