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DonViejo

(60,536 posts)
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 06:41 PM Oct 2017

Behind Closed Doors, Kagan Is Eating Gorsuch's Lunch

Feud: Elena and Neil

Why rumors of a Gorsuch–Kagan clash at the Supreme Court are such a bombshell.

By Mark Joseph Stern

Following his nomination to the Supreme Court, Neil Gorsuch was packaged by his wealthy benefactors as the judicial equivalent of a carrot cake: mild and wholesome with the occasional hint of spice. Now that the justice has been safely installed on the court for life, he has revealed himself to be more akin to melted sorbet: sickly sweet and insubstantial with a tangy finish that induces slight nausea. Gorsuch’s abrupt pivot to arrogance has been on full display in his bumptious opinions and questions from the bench. But it also appears to be infecting his interactions with justices behind the scenes. Whispers emerging from the court indicate Gorsuch is more likely to alienate than influence even his conservative colleagues.

The latest sign of trouble comes from NPR’s Nina Totenberg, who dropped in on the indispensable Supreme Court podcast First Mondays to dish some gossip about the newest justice. Totenberg, a renowned court reporter who is friendly with several justices, noted that Gorsuch “ticks off some members of the court—and I don’t think it’s just the liberals.” Without exposing her sources—“you talk to former law clerks, you talk to friends, you talk to some of the justices”—Totenberg then dropped a bombshell:

My surmise, from what I’m hearing, is that Justice [Elena] Kagan really has taken [Gorsuch] on in conference. And that it’s a pretty tough battle and it’s going to get tougher. And she is about as tough as they come, and I am not sure he’s as tough—or dare I say it, maybe not as smart. I always thought he was very smart, but he has a tin ear somehow, and he doesn’t seem to bring anything new to the conversation.


Why is Totenberg’s reporting here so extraordinary? Because it’s astonishing that any reporter would hear details from conference, let alone score some genuinely juicy scuttlebutt. Conference is famously sacrosanct: It’s where the justices gather to cast their votes in the cases of the week, with each explaining his or her reasoning in order of seniority. Nobody else is allowed to attend. If rumors leak about a justice’s behavior in conference—and they basically never do—it is almost certainly a justice who leaked them. And when justices leak—which again, happens very rarely—they do so on purpose. The fact that we know about the “battle” in conference between Gorsuch and Kagan suggests that someone on the court wants us to know.

more
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2017/10/why_rumors_of_a_gorsuch_kagan_supreme_court_clash_are_such_a_bombshell.html
42 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Behind Closed Doors, Kagan Is Eating Gorsuch's Lunch (Original Post) DonViejo Oct 2017 OP
Very interesting, thanks for posting. Unfortunately none of this matters except the vote. enough Oct 2017 #1
If he's alienated Kennedy drmeow Oct 2017 #8
Going forward, if inadequacy forces Gorsuch into a tertiary role . . . MrModerate Oct 2017 #32
in other words CatWoman Oct 2017 #2
i hope the Justices are sooooooooooo hard on him that Gorsuch resigns trueblue2007 Oct 2017 #3
Jeffrey Toobin's been writing about Gorsuch's unpopularity among the rest of octoberlib Oct 2017 #4
If only there was a deliberative body Proud Liberal Dem Oct 2017 #31
yuuummmmmmy. mopinko Oct 2017 #5
This was all predictable. madaboutharry Oct 2017 #6
Like Scalia, Gorsuch pals around with billionaires. No wonder he's so pro-GOP billionaire. sharedvalues Oct 2017 #23
What kind of person would take a position that had been given to them so unscrupulously? Maraya1969 Oct 2017 #7
Bingo! eom drmeow Oct 2017 #9
Yep, n/t LittleGirl Oct 2017 #11
Exactly - and the other justices must know it. LisaM Oct 2017 #12
Consider who was his mother. GoCubsGo Oct 2017 #16
Yep Gorsuch, just like the Koch boys and Trump, brain & hate washed since birth by nj parents stuffmatters Oct 2017 #39
He's a receiver of stolen goods. TeamPooka Oct 2017 #17
Someone raised that way... charliea Oct 2017 #40
Consequences of sitting in a stolen seat. Bad Karma. Sneederbunk Oct 2017 #10
She should schedule him for daily ass-kicking. milestogo Oct 2017 #13
What if you're allergic to carrots? snort Oct 2017 #14
Could be a staffer. nt Honeycombe8 Oct 2017 #15
You mean someone who accepts something that isn't rightfully theirs might be an asshole? czarjak Oct 2017 #18
Hes illigitimate and MUST be removed from the bench. broadcaster90210 Oct 2017 #19
28 USC 1 Mike Niendorff Oct 2017 #24
I like this fix. liberalla Oct 2017 #42
This won't end well. My real fear is that an innocent bystander will get blood on them Stinky The Clown Oct 2017 #20
Agree! mountain grammy Oct 2017 #26
I thought Gorsuch was Creepy JI7 Oct 2017 #21
He has the same fake appearance that Pence and Kushner have. BigmanPigman Oct 2017 #22
Doesn't surprise me in the least. lindysalsagal Oct 2017 #25
Another legacy for mcturtle bronxiteforever Oct 2017 #27
He should resign. Sunlei Oct 2017 #28
He'll never overcome the taint of being a Trump nominee. n/t FSogol Oct 2017 #29
I was under the impression they liked each other. Calista241 Oct 2017 #30
carrot cake is a deceptively unhealthy fraud IronLionZion Oct 2017 #33
GorTrump and McConnell did not send Gorsuch to the SCOTUS to charm the other Justices. NCjack Oct 2017 #34
Kagan is far smarter than Gorsuch Gothmog Oct 2017 #35
It was obvious during his meetings w/senators and DeminPennswoods Oct 2017 #36
Smile RayStar Oct 2017 #37
I hate to be nasty DonCoquixote Oct 2017 #38
At least Thomas not fooled Oct 2017 #41

enough

(13,259 posts)
1. Very interesting, thanks for posting. Unfortunately none of this matters except the vote.
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 06:42 PM
Oct 2017

The question will be: are minds being changed? I think we all know the answer.

drmeow

(5,021 posts)
8. If he's alienated Kennedy
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 07:26 PM
Oct 2017

it could make it harder for the conservatives to sway him to their side. Justices do change their votes based on arguments put forward by their fellow justices and there is some negotiation which takes place. Gorsuch antagonizing even the conservative justices could actually matter - not a lot but it is not meaningless.

 

MrModerate

(9,753 posts)
32. Going forward, if inadequacy forces Gorsuch into a tertiary role . . .
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 12:26 PM
Oct 2017

(think Thomas), then he won't be leading the writing on many decisions.

Given that he's a tool of the right, I'm content that he not be one of the sharper ones.

octoberlib

(14,971 posts)
4. Jeffrey Toobin's been writing about Gorsuch's unpopularity among the rest of
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 06:46 PM
Oct 2017

the Justices.


Gorsuch’s speeches might appear less distasteful to his colleagues if he had made an otherwise more graceful début on the Court. As Linda Greenhouse observed in the Times at the end of Gorsuch’s first term, he managed to violate the Court’s traditions as soon as he arrived. He dominated oral arguments, when new Justices are expected to hang back. He instructed his senior colleagues, who collectively have a total of a hundred and forty years’ experience on the Court, about how to do their jobs. Dissenting from a decision that involved the interpretation of federal laws, he wrote, “If a statute needs repair, there’s a constitutionally prescribed way to do it. It’s called legislation.” Perhaps he thought that the other Justices were unfamiliar with this thing called “legislation.” Gorsuch also expressed ill-disguised contempt for Anthony Kennedy’s landmark opinion legalizing same-sex marriage in all fifty states. Earlier this year, the Court’s majority overturned an Arkansas ruling that the state could refuse to put the name of a birth mother’s same-sex spouse on their child’s birth certificate. Dissenting, Gorsuch wrote, “Nothing in Obergefell spoke (let alone clearly) to the question.” That “let alone clearly” reflected a conservative consensus that Kennedy’s opinion was a confusing mess.


https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/how-badly-is-neil-gorsuch-annoying-the-other-supreme-court-justices


This is the first I've heard about the Kagan- Gorsuch battle , though. Good for her!

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,416 posts)
31. If only there was a deliberative body
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 12:04 PM
Oct 2017

whose job it was to methodically evaluate and determine a nominee's fitness for a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court and vote accordingly..............

madaboutharry

(40,212 posts)
6. This was all predictable.
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 07:09 PM
Oct 2017

Gorsuch is an example of dripping white privilege. He is unctuous and entitled. Of course he would rub people the wrong way. Imagine being one of the younger members of the court and know that you are going to have to work with this guy for the rest of your life. That would be rough.

Maraya1969

(22,486 posts)
7. What kind of person would take a position that had been given to them so unscrupulously?
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 07:10 PM
Oct 2017

That alone says much about his character.

LisaM

(27,815 posts)
12. Exactly - and the other justices must know it.
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 07:41 PM
Oct 2017

Even John Roberts, why, IIRC, was able to bypass some process or another because they were nominating him to be Chief Justice, not just Justice.

stuffmatters

(2,574 posts)
39. Yep Gorsuch, just like the Koch boys and Trump, brain & hate washed since birth by nj parents
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 05:35 PM
Oct 2017

I suspect Gorsuch too is a textbook alum of that same legal extremist chop shop that also gifted us Alito & Scalia; it was founded by
Henry Regnery

charliea

(260 posts)
40. Someone raised that way...
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 06:21 PM
Oct 2017

I'm old enough to remember his late mother's disastrous term as the head of the EPA, under Ronald Rayguns. She lasted a couple of years (81- 83) but ultimately was forced to resign because of a scandal with the handling of the Superfund environmental cleanup program. Little Neil was raised by that harridan. Her term could be considered a template for Pruitt, although he takes more chartered flights (the hoi pololi are sooo annoying...)

#Resist

Mike Niendorff

(3,462 posts)
24. 28 USC 1
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 03:36 AM
Oct 2017

Expand the Court to 11 : 1 to nullify the illegitimate justice, then 1 to rule legitimately in place of the nullified vote.

MDN

Stinky The Clown

(67,809 posts)
20. This won't end well. My real fear is that an innocent bystander will get blood on them
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 09:13 PM
Oct 2017

The innocent bystander being a litigant. The blood being bile from this lowlife fuck.

JI7

(89,254 posts)
21. I thought Gorsuch was Creepy
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 09:17 PM
Oct 2017

During the Senate hearings he came off phony and creepy.i thought it was fake when he laughed and when he got emotional.

BigmanPigman

(51,613 posts)
22. He has the same fake appearance that Pence and Kushner have.
Wed Oct 18, 2017, 09:33 PM
Oct 2017

I do judge a book by its cover and his cover is shrink wrapped...too clean. Underneath it you know that there is something rotting and foul.

lindysalsagal

(20,695 posts)
25. Doesn't surprise me in the least.
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 06:47 AM
Oct 2017

so-called "conservative" opinions are usually either selfish greed or childish ignorance and superstition. Neither will stand up to a well-spoken liberal.

bronxiteforever

(9,287 posts)
27. Another legacy for mcturtle
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 11:30 AM
Oct 2017

He stole the seat, shat over the Senate and now blows up the Court.
He is the worst outside of the orange nero

Calista241

(5,586 posts)
30. I was under the impression they liked each other.
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 12:02 PM
Oct 2017

Kind of like the weird Ruth Bader Ginsburg / Antonin Scalia friendship.

IronLionZion

(45,466 posts)
33. carrot cake is a deceptively unhealthy fraud
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 01:33 PM
Oct 2017

since it requires a lot more oil and butter to make it taste good. The melted sorbet sounds more accurate.

NCjack

(10,279 posts)
34. GorTrump and McConnell did not send Gorsuch to the SCOTUS to charm the other Justices.
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 02:14 PM
Oct 2017

He job is to gum up the works.

DeminPennswoods

(15,286 posts)
36. It was obvious during his meetings w/senators and
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 03:46 PM
Oct 2017

hearing that Gorsuch was a smarmy and arrogant. Had I been one of the senators he met with, I'd've been sorely tempted to punch him in the nose.

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
38. I hate to be nasty
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 05:01 PM
Oct 2017

But I remember when Kagan was proposed, some people got very nasty, they said "she will never vote for gay marriage." and "she will join the right wing."

WELLLLLLOL, it looks like some people owe her an apology, because she is turning out to be the exact buttress against Gory sucks we needed.

not fooled

(5,801 posts)
41. At least Thomas
Thu Oct 19, 2017, 08:43 PM
Oct 2017

just sits there.

May gosuck have a stressful and thoroughly unpleasant tenure on the Supreme Court.

Occupying a stolen seat never works out well.


Oh, and Nina, gosuck doesn't bring anything new to the conversation because, like most pukes in power, he is only interested in steamrolling opposition in order to impose his agenda on everyone else. And has crappy ideas that sound ridiculous in a reasoned debate.

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