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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsPresident Obama loves fracking
He thinks it can be done safely.
He thinks it's cool to burn natural gas for the next 100 years.
I pretty much disagree with that.
Natural gas actually burns cleaner than some other fossil fuels, the Democratic incumbent said in reply to an audience question. Its an ideal energy source that we potentially could use for the next 100 years.
So I want to encourage natural gas production. The key is to make sure that we do it safely and in a way that is environmentally sound.
The practice popularly called fracking, regionally concentrated so far in eastern Ohio and neighboring Pennsylvania, involves ground injections of chemically treated fluids at high pressure to fracture shale deposits and free oil and natural gas trapped inside.
There are a lot of folks right now who are engaging in hydraulic fracturing who are doing it safely, Mr. Obama said. The problem is that we havent established clear guidelines of how to do it safely and to inform the public, so that neighbors know whats going on. Look, we are going to work with industry to establish best practices. We are going to invest in the basic research and science to make sure this is done safely and in a way that protects the public health.
...
http://stateimpact.npr.org/pennsylvania/2012/07/17/obama-backs-fracking-during-campaign-appearance/
bluestateguy
(44,173 posts)Just asking.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)Robb
(39,665 posts)Heaps of regulations can make about anything safe. There are probably situations where fracking is a perfectly safe thing to do. Unfortunately, there are also spots where it's a horrible idea.
The likelihood of the industry surviving the necessary level of regulation required to keep things like ground water safe seems pretty low, just given the expense of proper studies to establish those regulations.
lonestarnot
(77,097 posts)studies?
I'm saying that the cost to ensure all fracking is done safely will make fracking too expensive a process to be viable.
If I know this administration, that's probably the plan: lip service followed by draconian regulation. Hope I'm right.
DURHAM D
(32,610 posts)That situation is not knowable.
IMO Obama is being poorly advised. IOWs I think he believes what he is being told by his advisers but he has the wrong people in the room. I hope someone who is not fluffing for the industry gets his ear and attention soon.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Just curious.
progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)The President makes his own energy policy. A lot of people think it stinks.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)I think it's a difference of opinion...
Lots of data to be analyzed regarding the benefit to risk ratio in hydraulic fracturing, and many ALEC laws are pushing it down the throats of the state legislators.
Obama likes them corporations, or didn't you understand that?
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)You two should go back to wherever you came from. No room in here for right wing propaganda.
MrMickeysMom
(20,453 posts)Which, is the world of reading, checking facts for the record and comparing what is going on in the real world.
Surely, you should check with a moderator, if you don't understand what you are confusing this with.
This industry is being pushed down the throats of states as a revenue generator, while the great consequences of tracking on the environment have only begun to be examined.
Now, I ask you, if you have policy to support industry such as wind, solar and geothermal in your state, doesn't that invite an industry that does NOT risk environmental and health of citizens? READ about some state government officials in areas who want this type of investment.
Yet, we hear positive comments about fracking from our president, which when countered, are "right wing propaganda?"
Who's misinformed here? Ask a mod, since your response is irresponsible and ridiculous.
OverseaVisitor
(296 posts)He is looking at future need. That is his job to take care of the people and the country.
4th paragraph state the problems as he see it and also state that investment in basic research and science.
Give the guy a break. World is not black or white.
Claiming he love fracking is a distortion.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Or any of the others, it was used for everything. There are safe ways to get natural gas and it has a long history:
http://naturalgas.org/overview/history.asp
Fracking is not the only way to get natural gas. Obama did not say he loves fracking, full steam ahead. He said within regulations.
The problem has been states with tea bagger legislators and governors who are giving frackers full rein to do this irresponsibly. So I also say give Obama a break and investigate, not go with the increasingly rightist NPR.
I'm dead set against fracking when water tables are liable to be pollued. The problem is that the local people are divided. Anyone has watched the movie Gasland, knows this conflict. Some want to sell their rights to the minerals beneath their land, with no regard for the effects on their neighbors. The producer claims the people were ignorant and misled. IDK.
You can listen to a PBS discussion here:
http://www-tc.pbs.org/now/rss/media/NOW-613.mp3
Or read a page on the film here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_Land
Unfortunately, the industry is now pushing this and must be regulated until it is literally stopped from doing this in all but the safest situations. But than that, we must defeat the Koch and others who threatening to take over completely. We piss and moan about a lot of stuff and don't have solutions.
We have not as a country done what other countries have done to make use of methane and energy from other sources, we don't have to kill ourselves over this one. And just in case, anyone thinks I am an apologetic for the fossil fuel and other energy industries, having grown up around this industry and been associated and well informed by members of the OCAW in years past, I'll say this.
I never, ever, give these guys the benefit of the doubt. As far as I'm concerned, they are guilty until proven innocent, and I'm not likely to change my mind.
It is a filthy business, implicated in the overthrow of regimes such as in Iran, the propping up of tyrants, and going to war. It destroys the environment and steals the natural bounty of the Earth from people across the globe, it is part a cabal that never gets enough.
But we are not transformed yet into a society that is ready to do without it. So Obama has to keep all the options open, but remember, he has not agreed to Keystone but it is being shot up in our faces at every single bill the baggers are putting through, like cutting funding from Planned Parenthood and suppressing the vote in America. That's NOT Obama's fault it is our fault for not voting these regressives out.
Ignorance on the history of the use of natural gas does not advance the fight against fracking, and not offering solutions and ensationalist pieces smearing Obama is not helpful. A reasoned case could be made, but this is simply, by virtue of the title which NPR put on it, is dishonest. EOM, as this is just MHO.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)And it will likely take 100 years to fully transition away from fossil fuels, even under the best circumstances.
We will need to hold government to the safety aspect of these statements.
TheKentuckian
(25,026 posts)There is no possible "political reality" that will change such a fundamental need for life.
Holding a government to the safety aspect is almost crazy talk. There is no "how". There is no such capacity to independently provide oversight to do such a thing in a serious fashion. When our guys let the inmates run the asylum we have no actual recourse and even if someone is held accountable without making matters worse you still can't get the toothpaste back in the tube.
Without real world capacity to provide oversight and actively enforce regulations backed by the will to do so all the legislation in the world is nothing but words on paper.
Wildly irresponsible and touch and go with suicidal is not "reasonable" at all.
tblue
(16,350 posts)I had this fantasy, during the Repub debates, of the drinkung water served on the podiums being revealed as from fracked sources. The debaters should be told about ir and then asked if they are willing to drink it. I'd've paid good money to see the look on their faces.
Obama is trying to walk a fine line, as usual, taking both sides at the same time. As if anyone should try to justify greater damage to this fragile planet. He's good at that taking both sides though, I'll give him that.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)They use very high pressure and toxic chemicals to fracture the shale layer. The high pressure forces the fluid and gas up into places you don't want it. There is no way to do this without threatening the water.
There is no science study that will ever convince the supporters that fracking cannot be done safely. No matter what evidence is presented, the oil industry always presents a spin saying the study is meaningless or flawed or inconclusive. Evidence is useless.
They are making billions and pushing the costs off onto the people of this region and the people of the United States.
NYC_SKP
(68,644 posts)But then I also don't support our not requiring higher taxes on fuels overall, or our low standards of efficiency, or our high levels of consumption.
But in context, given what the options are and the utter unlikelihood of making the necessary changes fast enough, his position is a difficult one but not unreasonable.
I hate fracking, but like deep ocean oil extraction, it's the next logical (if unwise) step on the fossil fuel diet/addiction.
Angry Dragon
(36,693 posts)XemaSab
(60,212 posts)progressivebydesign
(19,458 posts)one_voice
(20,043 posts)'debates' like this. They usually go like this..
Obama supporters love high unemployment. That's why they support Obama.
Obama hates African Americans, that's why he does nothing about the high unemployment rate in their community.
Obama supporters are racists they support high unemployment for African Americans.
and on and on....I could give you a thousand examples, and the longer they go on, the more ridiculous they become. Till they end with the whole "you worship Obama he is your master' pisses me off just thinking about it.
I don't understand this style of debate. I've never seen anyone else do it, till now...
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)GarroHorus
(1,055 posts)DevonRex
(22,541 posts)And he eats blood diamonds for lunch.
Poll_Blind
(23,864 posts)....month later, televisions were lit up with round the clock coverage of the BP oil disaster.
His reversal was part of a televised speech and I remember watching it and just having my jaw hit the floor. A few months later, he's talking about who's ass he needs to kick. Hrm.
Here's some quick links:
Barack Obama reverses campaign promise and approves offshore drilling
Remarks by the President to the Nation on the BP Oil Spill
A few months from now, is he going to be on television talking about needing to know who's ass to kick again?
I want to leave you and everyone else with a quote from Sam Seder (about President Obama's choices) from November 15, 2010:
I mean, at one point Progressives are going to pivot from trying to convince Obama from doing what Obama feels is right, despite himself, to "Obama doesn't, isn't necessarily on our side, regardless of what we may have thought and we've got to actually start to make a design, a plan, to force him to do what we want with the presumption that it's not what he wants to do."
Right now the President's playing his own game, House & Senate leadership on the Democratic side are playing their own games, I don't think anyone's on the same page, especially because politically he has to run against Congress in order to get re-elected. I would like to ask how all these 14-dimensional chess moves...and what I'm really talking about is his supposed "triangulation" against the Right by adopting many of their positions...are going to miraculously pay off for the promotion of Democratic Party platform planks.
I'll be filling in the little arrow with my ink pen next to Obama's name in November but I'll be shaking my head at the direction he's taken this party. I'll be filling in the little arrow next to DeFazio's name in November but I'll be shaking my head at the lack of support he's gotten with that fucking loon Art Robinson and his wads of corporate cash.
I guess some years all you can do is fill in the little arrow with your ink pen and just shake your head at the fucked up mess of a situation.
PB
joshcryer
(62,276 posts)limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)I want to focus more on grass roots organizing around issues and focus more on the Democratic primaries. Starting to think the primaries are almost more important than the general election. But that won't help when candidates reverse positions after getting elected.
Summer Hathaway
(2,770 posts)President Obama "loves' fracking.
He also loves torturing puppies, kicking the crutches out from under old ladies, AND he refuses to hold his hand over his heart during the Pledge of Allegiance.
I understand he was once videotaped eating a live kitten on the White House lawn - but thanks the librul media, the footage has never been shown.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)Summer Hathaway
(2,770 posts)Your mom won't be home for hours - and no one here will ever tell her you were using her computer while she was out.
Just remember to wipe the Cheetos stains off the keyboard when you log off.
limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)Summer Hathaway
(2,770 posts)Now I'm caught in one of those endless loops where, no matter how many times you 'press pound now', you wind up back at the beginning of the tape recorded message.
Fire Walk With Me
(38,893 posts)joshcryer
(62,276 posts)Of course he loves it, as do many capitalists. Hell, it's been responsible for most of our coal consumption reduction, and is tied deeply into renewable energy.
Just as the status quo wants.
woo me with science
(32,139 posts)That's Republican propaganda!
The denial needs to stop.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=146626
Enrique
(27,461 posts)polichick
(37,152 posts)...the technology to protect the Gulf from accidents.
And this, in spite of what's already happened.
Chess playing politician, sure. Wise man, not so much.