go.....

That was not rhetorical.

It become an everyday thing here on du
How will Bernie be bashed today
It has grown very old

Answer the question without deflection or obfuscation.

Troll someone else

Its my head. You're the one who made the original statement. YOU'Re the one who obfuscated when called out on it and now you want ME to stop "trolling".

Are you calling me a troll, now, too?

Just man up and be clear with your intent instead of continuing this silliness of running from what you intend to accuse me of having done.

Let's make this really simple:

1. Show me ONE thread of mine where I talked about this or anything else negative about Sanders. Just one.

2. Are you calling me a troll?

But u send up red flags and my desire to stay here is greater than my desire to debate ur motives .
The Bernie haters are alive and well here and frankly I am sick of them

Quite a broad brush you have there.

Tell ya what. Man up, apologize, and we can both move on. I am not letting this go because they way you threw out an oblique insult to me is kind of unfair. Had you made the same statement, but more generalized, we'd be elsewhere. But you chose to make it personal. That's just not nice.

And what do you mean by me "sending up red flags"? I don't understand what that's supposed to mean. Can you explain? I know you can. Now will you?

And those who protest loudly get alerted
Seen it happen way too often...
Have no desire to refight the primary or the general
The fact is Bernie reenergized my local party and I get disgusted when folks continuously disparage Bernie or the number of dues paying Dem he brought into the local party from which I hail.
I used to promote du openly in my local party, l have become more reluctant to currently due to the ridicule Bernie gets here on a pretty much daily basis.
My job in local Dem party leadership is to recruit and nurture into the fold.
I need them to feel welcome and wanted. Bernie turned them on. My job is to see they don't get turned off.

Be very careful, however, who you paint with your overly broad brush. You say you "don't give a shit" to review my history vis-a-vis Bernie. Maybe you should have. You will find this is the first post I ever made about him that could be considered a bash.

And maybe it is a bash, even as it is based on truth. Bernie said he would in future run as a Democrat. There is video of that. It was on the TV in the last few days. On MSNBC. Bernie saying he would run as a Democrat. I would WELCOME him as a Democrat. But he's not.

Anyway, back to you. Please don't broad brush me with venom intended for others.

You've made it clear in this too-long exchange that you didn't know what you were talking about when you attacked me.

Edited to add:

You would be well served the next time you want to attack someone to attack what they said, not who you think they are. You could have commented on what I posted. Instead, you made a snarky remark about me, not what I said.

Sanders made a decision this week and we all have the right to not be pleased with it.

Is this going to be the standard refrain every time Sanders makes a decision we don't like?

Is it your opinion we are not allowed to object to a statement he makes or action he takes?

you want, but prior to last week did you honestly think Senator Sanders was going to change the strategy that has won him the Vermont Junior Senate Seat the last two elections?

Sanders is being held accountable for his current actions and decisions.

I just wondered if this was a surprise to you or if you may have considered he is a sitting Senator who has two successful elections behind him and therefore knows what he needs to do to win. Again I understand the driver for the outrage and expressed no concerns in that regard can we stop that distraction?

crack me up. Here's a pro tip for you Senator Sanders is going to be a returning Senator in 2019 and he will caucus with the Democratic party in the Senate. Just wanted to give you a heads up since the running for the Senate as an Independent seems to have caught you by surprise.

which you want censored. Apparently you think Bernie is bashing Bernie. It's not the first time that charge has been made against Bernie. It is nonetheless strange.

Pure and simple subversion of our democracy. Instead of looking at Hillary or Bernie as being at fault we need to secure our voting system.

Last edited Tue Oct 24, 2017, 12:38 PM - Edit history (1)

The only fault we can own is that we underestimated the degree to which the GOP, Trump and Russia would subvert democracy.

Top win.

Not counting winning in states with massive voter suppression, and purges, at the least.

Outright election fraud at the most.

the truth about what happened, they will keep losing.

they rigged the race. But when they rigged it again just a few days before the election it was too much for anyone.

They would have targeted Sanders or O'Malley too had they been the nominee.

It took a whole lot of men to take this woman down.

The list goes on and on. And she still won a majority of the votes.

She did make one mistake. She totally underestimated the amount of behind the scenes cheating that was going on.

I confess I voted for Bernie in the primary, then Hillary in the presidential election. I love Bernie, I like Hillary. But people need to face the reality of what happened, and it was not that she ran a bad campaign.

It was all unprecedented. First time, fool them. Second, fool me. Hopefully, we learn. I wonder.

No one even seems to want to admit the Russians undermined our democracy.

I love Bernie, but am getting so pissed off by the Hillary bashing and fault finding. Fair is fair and she deserves defending.

Now I have to go defend Bernie on another thread.
He is getting unfair treatment too.

We need to bash the evil ones, not the good and decent public servants.

Thanks for hearing me out.

Lol lol. Really. Precious. Hey, if you run into me in that other thread, be gentle.

I cheer you. Thanks.

Bernie deserves kind words. He is one of the good souls on our planet.

become Irish citizens now. Definitely grandchildren, but expanded it to great grandchildren now I believe.

Sorry must run, I am getting flamed and tossed off the Bernie thread.

He was much more formidable than any one realized.
Perhaps if she had known in advance what was happening.

Then Comey intervened one more time to damage her with more lies.

I also think that his original lies did more harm than anything Putin did, let alone Trump.

Trying to identify the interferences in the election and weighing them as to severity and impact.

I don't have an answer which was worse. But I suspect Comey and Putin are on the top of the list. I think there was voter fraud on election day, and the pre election polls would not have reflected that reality.

Voter fraud is pretty rare and not the issue here. Election fraud is what we are talking about.

The election stolen by a hostile foreign government.
And no one seems that interested in investigating how it was done.

besides underestimating that subversion, we have to acknowledge the part that people of good intentions aided the subversion by falling for the propaganda that the right and russia were pushing. If we don't, we will just have it happen again.

And blaming Hillary and Bernie is not facing reality.

those who fell for the propaganda and went around complaining about "Crooked" or "Corporate" or "Lying" Hillary need to realize they were had so that they don't fall for that shit all over again in a year. They have already begun attacking Democratic leaders and dividing the party.

In short, if people voted or didn't vote because they thought (a) Hillary is a corporate stooge or (b) Bernie is a hater, you were owned by the russian social media campaign. Both of those are patent lies. If people fall into this category, they need to at least admit it to themselves and try to be more savvy in the next election.

I think we tend to focus on the propaganda fed to the right and don't want to admit we got it too.

I still see it here on this forum and it seems so unfair to both Bernie and Hillary. They are hardworking, dedicated public servants.

I think we are going to find that the Russians were more involved in hacking our election than we can even imagine right now. And if we don't figure it out, we are going to have the same results as last time.

So yes, I agree with you Jakes, 100%.

I am more and more inclined to believe Bernie should have ran as an Independent last year.

Why not? He's catching shit either way.

he knew it was his only chance of winning. He is as ambitious and calculating as any politician - it is the only kind we have in America.

he ran as a D so that he wouldn't split the vote like Nader supposedly did

if he walked on water some would accuse him of not being able to swim

if it makes you feel better.

so is Hillary the same?

Link?

Last edited Tue Oct 24, 2017, 02:23 PM - Edit history (1)

That's all it took, and it's all they needed. It was a result of the divisiveness. Trump then copied his attacks.

Divisiveness over Obama split the vote in 2008. Should he not have run?

(he campaigned all the way and during the convention), and all the bashing of the party drove many voters to Stein or to write-in or to stay home.

Not the same at all.

And um, you do remember Hillary's campaign in 2008, don't you? Do you remember PUMAs?

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/chris-weigant/the-end-of-hillary-clinto_b_9791460.html (sources used in article are actually WaPo).

Of course, there were some 10% of Bernie voters who went for Trump--voters who also did not approve of Obama (i.e. they likely weren't Democrats to begin with).

But whatevs. Continue blaming Bernie if it makes you happy. Won't change anything now, and may hurt in the future.

Last edited Wed Oct 25, 2017, 08:54 AM - Edit history (1)

...and Sanders didn't run in the General Election.

So, how could Sanders running as a Democrat have any similarity, "like Nader supposedly did", to Nader's General Election candidacy?

Last edited Wed Oct 25, 2017, 04:38 AM - Edit history (1)

Bernie planned to run for Prez and did so. He ran for the Democratic nomination in the primary instead of as an independent in the general specifically so that he would not split the vote in the general.

It ain't complicated.

As you say, it ain't complicated.

wooooosch

help him...not to split the vote.

[link:http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/bernie-sanders-independent-media-coverage-220747|

(sorry, I have no idea how to do a link, but it's at Politico)

a Democrat that he couldn't generate as an Independent. His own words say that. He couldn't get into the debates, as well.

And announced he was running as a Democrat to not split the vote.

Please recheck your "facts;.

he is not stupid.

Bernie Sanders on Monday told NBC’s Chuck Todd that he ran as a Democrat to get more media coverage.

During a town hall-style event in Columbus, Ohio, the independent Vermont senator said, “In terms of media coverage, you have to run within the Democratic Party.” He then took a dig at MNSBC, telling Todd, the network “would not have me on his program” if he ran as an independent.

Money also played a role in his decision to run as a Democrat, Sanders added.

“To run as an independent, you need — you could be a billionaire," he said. "If you're a billionaire, you can do that. I'm not a billionaire. So the structure of American politics today is such that I thought the right ethic was to run within the Democratic Party.”

POLITICO has previously reported that Sanders initially resisted running as a Democrat, but was convinced by his advisers that it was necessary.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/2016-dem-primary-live-updates-and-results/2016/03/bernie-sanders-independent-media-coverage-220747

He openly admits it!

he is a politician after all - he knows what he can and cannot say regardless of his true motives.

He openly admits he ran as a dem because of the money and the media coverage. LOL!