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niyad

(113,576 posts)
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 02:06 PM Oct 2017

When a culture produces this much sexual assault, it's not an accident


When a culture produces this much sexual assault, it’s not an accident
This isn't just about Harvey Weinstein or Donald Trump.
Updated by Ezra Klein@ezraklein Oct 23, 2017, 2:20pm EDT

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/HGlB31d1stvM6ie4ddh5tzsSXOQ=/0x0:4524x3016/920x613/filters:focal(1901x1147:2623x1869)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/57272857/609773132.0.jpg


“Harvey Weinstein is now a big problem for Democrats,” wrote CNN’s Chris Cillizza. “The Democrats cannot ignore their Harvey Weinstein problem,” wrote the Week’s Ed Morrissey. “Yes, Hillary — and the Democrats — Do Have a Harvey Weinstein Problem,” wrote the Daily Beast’s Keli Goff. Headlines like these were inescapable in the days after the Weinstein scandal broke. They are not wrong so much as they are incomplete. More than a dozen women have accused Donald Trump of sexual assault, telling stories that often mirror the stories told about Weinstein. Trump, of course, received advice and debate prep from the late Roger Ailes after Ailes left Fox News over a series of sexual harassment allegations.

Speaking of Fox News, over the weekend, the New York Times reported that Bill O’Reilly was still at the channel, after he settled a sexual harassment accusation for $32 million — in total, he’s now known to have settled about $45 million in sexual harassment accusations. Fox News signed him to a lucrative contract after that payout happened. So perhaps it’s really Republicans who have a Donald Trump problem, or a Fox News problem — after all, Fox News and Donald Trump have had more influence over the GOP than Weinstein ever had over the Democrats.

But let’s stop hiding behind these sorts of headlines. It’s America that has the problem. Pick an industry and you’ll hear stories. Journalism is being rocked by an anonymous list of men who are said to abuse and harass women; BuzzFeed is investigating a number of its senior employees; and Vox’s parent company, Vox Media, fired its editorial director after an investigation revealed misconduct. In Hollywood, there are now 38 women accusing director James Toback of sexual harassment. Rumors of sexual assault have spilled into the open about comedian Louis CK, actor Ben Affleck, and others.

Last week, the hashtag #MeToo took over social media. Virtually every woman I follow, on every social platform, no matter the industry or walk of life they came from, shared stories of harassment, abuse, and worse. I read searing tales from reporters and techies, chefs and yogis, civil servants and mountain climbers. There is a pervasiveness to sexual assault in America that defies the word “problem.” When a system creates an outcome this consistently, this predictably, in this many different spaces, you have to at least consider the possibility that the outcome is intended, that the system is working as designed.

Perhaps we need to do more than try to root out the worst abusers. Perhaps we need to rethink our sexual culture too.

. . . .

https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/10/23/16517948/sexual-assault-america-weinstein-trump
30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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When a culture produces this much sexual assault, it's not an accident (Original Post) niyad Oct 2017 OP
I'm beginning to think that the election and the Women's March may have broken through LisaM Oct 2017 #1
and here is hoping that effect works until the entire system is cleansed!! niyad Oct 2017 #2
I think it's one of those tipping point things.... LisaM Oct 2017 #4
I think a lot of women have reached their breaking point and that Trump has definitely been the smirkymonkey Oct 2017 #3
If I used social media I would me a MeToo. DURHAM D Oct 2017 #5
I am glad that your father took care of it. niyad Oct 2017 #6
I hope we hear from all voices. DURHAM D Oct 2017 #7
Oooh! That's Creepy ProfessorGAC Oct 2017 #12
Republicons have a Donald Trump problem. Democrats do not have a Harvey Weinstein problem. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2017 #8
and, as one statement put it, weinstein got put in the dog house. trump is in the white house. niyad Oct 2017 #9
Republicans have the Weinstein problem Hamlette Oct 2017 #16
this isn't unique to America- Russia, India, China, Sudan pick any country snooper2 Oct 2017 #10
Beat me too it. Ligyron Oct 2017 #21
Weinstein isn't a Democratic Party problem or a GOP problem. Saviolo Oct 2017 #11
This. Japan and India have women only train cars mythology Oct 2017 #13
Patriarchy: Alive, Thriving. Working EXACTLY as Designed. n/t TygrBright Oct 2017 #14
Keep rooting the bad guys out Marthe48 Oct 2017 #15
No it isnt ismnotwasm Oct 2017 #17
This is in all cultures. zentrum Oct 2017 #18
Agreed. I think we have reached a tipping point Phentex Oct 2017 #24
I think some of it has to do with mass objectification of women HopeAgain Oct 2017 #19
50 Shades of Grey, anyone? Ligyron Oct 2017 #22
please, not all women Skittles Oct 2017 #23
You don't know that this is happening any more? raccoon Oct 2017 #26
Of course sexual harassment has always been with us HopeAgain Oct 2017 #27
Name me one culture in the entire planet that reveres women as equal to men randr Oct 2017 #20
the media is the enemy of democrats. spanone Oct 2017 #25
While I agree with the premise, I would apply it to the Catholic Church first and foremost Not Ruth Oct 2017 #28
Lets just apply it to Christians, why pick on the Catholics Not Ruth Oct 2017 #29
This is reaching epidemic levels. Forget the war on drugs, this is our new national crisis. Initech Oct 2017 #30

LisaM

(27,832 posts)
1. I'm beginning to think that the election and the Women's March may have broken through
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 02:12 PM
Oct 2017

some of the taboos against women coming forth and telling their stories.

Seeing that many women marching together (and walking with them) had a powerful affect on me, and I don't know that it's a huge coincidence that there is a tidal wave of personal stories coming out after this travesty of an election, where a sexual predator was elected right in front of our eyes and it seemed that a lot of men just yawned (of course, now we know why, they didn't want their own tales to be told).

I'm calling it the Hillary Effect.

LisaM

(27,832 posts)
4. I think it's one of those tipping point things....
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 02:22 PM
Oct 2017

once you get to some sort of critical mass, things will actually shift.

 

smirkymonkey

(63,221 posts)
3. I think a lot of women have reached their breaking point and that Trump has definitely been the
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 02:21 PM
Oct 2017

catalyst. So many women are seeing their own abuse played out on national television and in the highest offices in the land and are finally saying "enough!"

DURHAM D

(32,611 posts)
5. If I used social media I would me a MeToo.
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 02:26 PM
Oct 2017

I was 17. He was over 50. Disgusting. Told my Dad. He took care of it.

niyad

(113,576 posts)
6. I am glad that your father took care of it.
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 02:29 PM
Oct 2017

I think we are still only seeing the tip of the iceberg with #MeToo . I keep hoping that the "sunlight is the best disinfectant" truism applies here as well.

DURHAM D

(32,611 posts)
7. I hope we hear from all voices.
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 02:33 PM
Oct 2017

The worst work environment for young women is the fast food industry. There is absolutely nothing to stand between the girls/women and a manager who does the work schedules. They have to acquiesce or leave but if their next job is at another McDonald's it will happen again.

ProfessorGAC

(65,191 posts)
12. Oooh! That's Creepy
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 03:29 PM
Oct 2017

50 and 17. That's almost a difference big enough that he could have had grandchildren the same age as you!

That's pretty disturbed behavior.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,043 posts)
8. Republicons have a Donald Trump problem. Democrats do not have a Harvey Weinstein problem.
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 03:02 PM
Oct 2017

Republicons elected Donald Trump.

Weinstein did not run for anybody. Trying to tar the Democrats because of a donor's money is hypocritical when Republicans excuse and ignore Donald Trump.

Donald Trump admitted on tape that he is a sex abuser and sexual assaulter and sexual predator.

But to the article's main point, yes, the culture has a problem.

Hamlette

(15,412 posts)
16. Republicans have the Weinstein problem
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 03:44 PM
Oct 2017

because dems dropped him like a hot potato and they kept Trump and the Weinstein story reminds people of Trump's crimes.

It really is a GOP problem but they don't care. Weiner sent pictures of his covered dick to people and he'll never see the light of day but Republicans vote them back in office (Vitter) or keep them on the payroll (Bill O) or speak of them wistfully (I admit I do that with Weiner but only in the sense that what he did was stupid, GOPers want to forgive.)

While I admit dems are often guilty of misconduct, assault even, I think it is the GOP that keeps the culture alive. They don't exactly protect women's rights and never have.

Ligyron

(7,639 posts)
21. Beat me too it.
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 05:07 PM
Oct 2017

Most are at least as bad as the US ... and many are quite a bit worse. Practically an institution in certain parts of the middle east.

Saviolo

(3,283 posts)
11. Weinstein isn't a Democratic Party problem or a GOP problem.
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 03:22 PM
Oct 2017

It's not a Hollywood problem or a liberal problem or a conservative problem.

It's a men problem:

 

mythology

(9,527 posts)
13. This. Japan and India have women only train cars
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 03:37 PM
Oct 2017

Some places in the Middle East requiem women to be fully covered.

Pretending it's just our culture won't fix the problem.

I'm lucky in that while my biological dad treats women like second class citizens (not that he treats anybody else particularly well), I had both my mom after the divorce and my maternal grandmother to make sure I didn't turn out like my dad.

ismnotwasm

(42,014 posts)
17. No it isnt
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 03:50 PM
Oct 2017

And there are a lot of us burning with ‘we told you, we fucking told you so’ —especially to the “lighten up” assholes who think this is now a political gravy train instead of the stark reality of women’s lives.

zentrum

(9,865 posts)
18. This is in all cultures.
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 04:04 PM
Oct 2017

This is a festering problem that's harmed half the world's population for thousands of years. It's called Patriarchy.

It's finally coming out in a new way, standing politically, IMO, on the shoulders of BLM and LGBQ fights to demand justice.

HopeAgain

(4,407 posts)
19. I think some of it has to do with mass objectification of women
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 04:08 PM
Oct 2017

It's a sort of "porn/rape culture," in which the objectification of all women, in all settings, is normalized. Sex is the great seller and entertainer. I think that is something that is made worse by the Internet and the constant availability of such materials. Once a person is objectified, they are no longer seen as independent human beings with the same rights as the objectifier. It also degrades our ability to sympathize with the objectified individual.

By saying this, I am not intending in any way to blame the victims. I am not passing judgment on all sexy materials or porn, although much of it has always portrayed objectifying sexual behavior.

I believe we need to teach both men and women that sex, like everything else in life, has an appropriate time and place and that it is wrong to speak of, treat, or see any human being as an object.

That doesn't make sex dirty, two consenting adults can do whatever they want, but men need to be taught that women should not be harmed, not have things done to them that they don't want, and be treated with respect in every single situation. I don't know that is happening anymore.

raccoon

(31,126 posts)
26. You don't know that this is happening any more?
Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:37 AM
Oct 2017

It never was, in many cases. The only thing different now is people are talking about it.
For millennia it was just swept up under the rug.

HopeAgain

(4,407 posts)
27. Of course sexual harassment has always been with us
Fri Oct 27, 2017, 10:17 AM
Oct 2017

But now as we decry it with our words, our culture and society implicitly encourages it with a tsunami of objectification.

randr

(12,415 posts)
20. Name me one culture in the entire planet that reveres women as equal to men
Thu Oct 26, 2017, 04:46 PM
Oct 2017

and there is no sexual transgression.

spanone

(135,880 posts)
25. the media is the enemy of democrats.
Fri Oct 27, 2017, 09:35 AM
Oct 2017

weinstein was a democratic donor....ailes was working in the trump camp

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