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Blue_Adept

(6,399 posts)
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:00 AM Nov 2017

Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trumps Motorcade

The picture, snapped by a White House photographer traveling with the president as he left his golf course in Sterling, Va., went viral almost immediately. News outlets picked up the story when it appeared in a White House pool report. Late-night talk show hosts told jokes about the encounter and people on social media began hailing the unidentified woman as a “she-ro,” using the hashtag #Her2020.

The woman’s name is Juli Briskman. Her employer, government contractor Akima LLC, wasn’t so happy about the photo. They fired her over it.



https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/woman-flips-off-donald-trump-fired_us_59fe0ab4e4b0c9652fffa484?ncid=engmodushpmg00000004
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Woman Fired For Flipping Off Donald Trumps Motorcade (Original Post) Blue_Adept Nov 2017 OP
She needs an ACLU lawyer right now. Zoonart Nov 2017 #1
I doubt it will do her any good. cwydro Nov 2017 #3
"Right-to-work" refers to employees enjoying the benefits of union contracts without paying the dues WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2017 #5
It also means you can be fired at any time for any reason or no reason. we can do it Nov 2017 #9
If a right-to-work provision in your state law leads you to losing your contract protections when it WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2017 #12
I stand corrected. cwydro Nov 2017 #16
On that, I agree with you. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2017 #17
Ive been involved in these cases many times SCantiGOP Nov 2017 #35
Yep. Too many people don't understand that. WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2017 #41
Idaho is rtw and at will idahoblue Nov 2017 #43
Yes it is DownriverDem Nov 2017 #50
Agreed! They may be able to document and demonstrate that the company's... NurseJackie Nov 2017 #22
Nonsense jberryhill Nov 2017 #63
LOL! NurseJackie Nov 2017 #64
I don't know what's funny about it jberryhill Nov 2017 #65
Memories are very short here...... MichMan Nov 2017 #66
And double standards abound. X_Digger Nov 2017 #69
She was fired for using it as her social media profile - direct violation of their policy - however, flygal Nov 2017 #38
Social media destroys people's lives and livelihoods. democratisphere Nov 2017 #40
Free speech means the government can't interfere. Your employer? Has no 'free speech' obligations. X_Digger Nov 2017 #68
Such snowflakes treestar Nov 2017 #2
I am sure her future employers would be honored to BigmanPigman Nov 2017 #4
Whether they would be honored to have her on their staff or not... EL34x4 Nov 2017 #21
Nobody even knew her name until this treestar Nov 2017 #58
Cut and dried wrongful termination lawsuit. roamer65 Nov 2017 #6
Wrong. onenote Nov 2017 #11
Any **non-discriminatory** reason, that is. WillowTree Nov 2017 #60
Nonsense jberryhill Nov 2017 #33
onenote is absolutely right SCantiGOP Nov 2017 #36
Yes. I wasn't replying to onenote jberryhill Nov 2017 #51
Yep, political belief isn't a protected class. geardaddy Nov 2017 #55
Political affiliation is covered by some states tammywammy Nov 2017 #67
Are you an attorney? grossproffit Nov 2017 #59
Adding to BigmanPigman's post JustAnotherGen Nov 2017 #7
Why do they do this. I GIVE HIM THE FINGER EVERYTIME I SEE HIS FACE, onecent Nov 2017 #8
She wasnt arrested. She was fired. cwydro Nov 2017 #20
OOps, my bad. onecent Nov 2017 #27
Sadly, that wouldnt surprise me either. cwydro Nov 2017 #29
Come to think of it, I would be surprised either. Thanks. onecent Nov 2017 #49
You would think MyOwnPeace Nov 2017 #10
nah, they just hired him!! riversedge Nov 2017 #31
Sickening get the red out Nov 2017 #13
I sent Akima a message via its website: phylny Nov 2017 #14
Thanks deancr Nov 2017 #28
I sent them a message. too. Thanks for the website. HelenWheels Nov 2017 #39
so much for her first amendment rights spanone Nov 2017 #15
Unless she's covered by a contract that prohibits it, at-will employment regulations, which WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2017 #18
The First Amendment doesn't apply to private employers. The Velveteen Ocelot Nov 2017 #52
First Amendment doesn't mean that she can't be fired geardaddy Nov 2017 #56
The first amendment doesn't apply to your employer. X_Digger Nov 2017 #70
It's threads like these that make it clear that people have a very poor understanding of the laws WhiskeyGrinder Nov 2017 #19
"Employment-at-will" laws fascist & must go. Close alignment corps w gov is one aspect of fascism. Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2017 #24
So let me ask.. in your perfect world.. X_Digger Nov 2017 #71
Much would depend on how the business name came to be associated with the employee, Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2017 #72
Bullshit X_Digger Nov 2017 #73
Reread my post. Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2017 #74
I trust someone with a conscience will give her a job. Baitball Blogger Nov 2017 #23
T shirt sale with photo on it. redwitch Nov 2017 #25
Great idea True Dough Nov 2017 #37
Key point: male colleague did worse & was allowed to stay. Male privilege & political bias. Bernardo de La Paz Nov 2017 #26
she said a male employee kept his job after posting lewd comments on his social media..... riversedge Nov 2017 #30
She made the national news. AtheistCrusader Nov 2017 #47
She could out the male employee and get him fired too Not Ruth Nov 2017 #32
I hope some other employer True Dough Nov 2017 #34
Id guess someone will call right away. JDC Nov 2017 #42
Lets put this in perspective...................Akima, LLC gave money to one sexual predator turbinetree Nov 2017 #44
Nothing good comes from Facebook. mn9driver Nov 2017 #45
Or Noseybook as my Aussie friend calls it.. HipChick Nov 2017 #48
Like most things, you never hear about the good things Blue_Adept Nov 2017 #62
Cycling in America... progressoid Nov 2017 #46
i wonder at what point the talk radio gods weighed in and got calls rage at akima certainot Nov 2017 #53
Shame on Akima LLC for going political. Freedom of expression is no longer tolerated. ffr Nov 2017 #54
What is her job title? treestar Nov 2017 #57
The First Amendment only applies to State Actors Gothmog Nov 2017 #61
 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
3. I doubt it will do her any good.
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:04 AM
Nov 2017

VA is a right to work state, I think.

That being said - good for her!

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,350 posts)
5. "Right-to-work" refers to employees enjoying the benefits of union contracts without paying the dues
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:09 AM
Nov 2017

that support them. That is usually addressed by state law. The issue you're referring to is "at will" employment, which is the national understanding of employment without contracts.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,350 posts)
12. If a right-to-work provision in your state law leads you to losing your contract protections when it
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:21 AM
Nov 2017

comes to the terms of employment, I suppose you could argue what you're saying. But the two phrases describe different things and to conflate the two is lazy and incorrect.

SCantiGOP

(13,871 posts)
35. Ive been involved in these cases many times
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 10:32 AM
Nov 2017

Under the doctrine of employment at will the employer can literally say: “I am firing you because I want to. There is no reason.”

There is no recourse unless they break some other law, such as discrimination based on race, disability, age, etc.

idahoblue

(377 posts)
43. Idaho is rtw and at will
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 10:50 AM
Nov 2017

Employees can be fired for any reason or no reason. I have known people to be fired because they didn't fit in with the culture.

DownriverDem

(6,228 posts)
50. Yes it is
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 11:32 AM
Nov 2017

I hate that they get to enjoy the benefits, but don't have to join and pay dues. Why is it that way? Same with teachers here in Michigan. If they don't want to join, why aren't they on their own? That sucks big time.

NurseJackie

(42,862 posts)
22. Agreed! They may be able to document and demonstrate that the company's...
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:42 AM
Nov 2017

... "social media policies" are lenient for conservatives who run afoul of the rules, but strictly enforced for liberals. I think she's got a case that should be pursued.

?ops=crop_0_737_1133_628,scalefit_720_noupscale

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
63. Nonsense
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 03:04 PM
Nov 2017

I run a small business, and I am not required to continue to employ someone who I find out is a Nazi.
 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
65. I don't know what's funny about it
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 03:12 PM
Nov 2017

But I don't get the disconnect at DU between "Hey, great, some asshole Nazi lost his job" and "Oh, awful, someone with whose politics I agree lost their job".

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/more-nazis-are-getting-identified-and-fired-after-charlottesville_us_599477dbe4b0eef7ad2c0318


At least four people have lost their jobs and several more are under scrutiny following the violent white supremacist rally in Charlottesville, Va., over the weekend.

flygal

(3,231 posts)
38. She was fired for using it as her social media profile - direct violation of their policy - however,
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 10:40 AM
Nov 2017

her male co-worker used the pic and called her a fucking libtard and he was reprimanded, deleted the pic and that was that.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
68. Free speech means the government can't interfere. Your employer? Has no 'free speech' obligations.
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 10:48 PM
Nov 2017

This drives me nuts every time I see it.

The bill of rights is a limit on the government, not you, or your employer, or Bob down the street.

BigmanPigman

(51,593 posts)
4. I am sure her future employers would be honored to
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:05 AM
Nov 2017

have her on their staff. There is the double standard based on gender AGAIN. She was fired while a male coworker did worse and kept his job. The employer is most likely a fan of the moron in chief.

 

EL34x4

(2,003 posts)
21. Whether they would be honored to have her on their staff or not...
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:36 AM
Nov 2017

...Once potential employers can google your name and find your identity attached to something controversial, many will weigh if hiring you is going to be worth the headache; the boycotts, harassment, etc. that doing so will bring to them.

Might be easier to simply move on to the next applicant; the one that didn't flip off the President of the United States and post the image to their Facebook account.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
58. Nobody even knew her name until this
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 12:23 PM
Nov 2017

It seems more like a flash in the pan that everyone will forget after a few days. What about getting the job done?

I'm glad I'm self employed. FFS, how is it productive for a company to pay people to snoop on Facebook?

roamer65

(36,745 posts)
6. Cut and dried wrongful termination lawsuit.
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:10 AM
Nov 2017

Any good employment attorney would have a field day with it.

onenote

(42,704 posts)
11. Wrong.
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:20 AM
Nov 2017

Any good employment attorney would probably tell her she doesn't have a case.

Employment in Virginia, as in virtually all states, is at-will, meaning that an employer can fire an employee for any reason, or for no reason at all, unless there is a contract term limiting the employer's termination rights, which is rare.

WillowTree

(5,325 posts)
60. Any **non-discriminatory** reason, that is.
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 12:34 PM
Nov 2017

And so it doesn't go out of context, this would not be a discriminatory reason.

 

jberryhill

(62,444 posts)
51. Yes. I wasn't replying to onenote
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 11:33 AM
Nov 2017

What really strikes me here is that there is usually rejoicing here at DU when someone is fired after having been outed as a Nazi, etc..

"Political belief" is not some sort of protected status in employment law. Of course, an employer can fire anyone who is not a contracted employee for any reason or no reason, provided it is not a prohibited reason.

tammywammy

(26,582 posts)
67. Political affiliation is covered by some states
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 10:17 PM
Nov 2017

California, Colorado, New York, North Dakota and Louisiana.

JustAnotherGen

(31,827 posts)
7. Adding to BigmanPigman's post
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:10 AM
Nov 2017


Virginia is an employment-at-will state, meaning employers can fire people anytime and for any reason. But Briskman said what’s been particularly infuriating is that a male colleague kept his job after recently posting lewd comments on his Facebook page that featured Akima LLC as his cover photo. She said this colleague was reprimanded for calling someone “a fucking Libtard asshole” on Facebook, but was allowed to delete the post and keep his job.


At will state or not - this is a job for the ACLU.

onecent

(6,096 posts)
8. Why do they do this. I GIVE HIM THE FINGER EVERYTIME I SEE HIS FACE,
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:12 AM
Nov 2017

No one's arrested me yet.

SCREW him and all his family@!!

 

cwydro

(51,308 posts)
20. She wasnt arrested. She was fired.
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:30 AM
Nov 2017

I applaud her.

On a different note, I do wonder how anyone could be allowed to be alongside a presidential motorcade. I thought they clear the roads of everyone.

spanone

(135,838 posts)
15. so much for her first amendment rights
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:24 AM
Nov 2017

she wasn't at work

she wasn't representing her company

she was expressing her personal political views

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,350 posts)
18. Unless she's covered by a contract that prohibits it, at-will employment regulations, which
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:27 AM
Nov 2017

exist in every state with only small exceptions relating to contracts, appear to apply in this case.

geardaddy

(24,931 posts)
56. First Amendment doesn't mean that she can't be fired
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 11:56 AM
Nov 2017

but that she can't be arrested for her speech.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
70. The first amendment doesn't apply to your employer.
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 10:55 PM
Nov 2017

The bill of rights is about a limit ON GOVERNMENT.

THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution.


(emphasis added)

*sigh* If there's one thing I wish I could get across to the people of DU, it's probably this.

I wish there were a $500 tax credit available for people to take (and pass) an online civics class.

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,350 posts)
19. It's threads like these that make it clear that people have a very poor understanding of the laws
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 09:29 AM
Nov 2017

that apply to them when they work. Read your employee handbook and understand state and federal laws.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
71. So let me ask.. in your perfect world..
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 10:59 PM
Nov 2017

.. let's say you have a business, and you find out one of your employees was in nazi regalia carrying a swastika and goose stepping while shouting racial slurs. You find this out when his picture and name appear on the front page of a national newspaper.

Are you really telling me that you'd endorse a system that makes you keep employing him, even as you face boycotts, hate mail, crank calls, etc?

Really?



Or would it only magically apply to positions that you hold?

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
72. Much would depend on how the business name came to be associated with the employee,
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 11:23 PM
Nov 2017

... leading to the bad will for the company.

But yeah, at that point, in the scenario you provide, I think the ball would be in the employee's court as to why they should not be let go.

And much depends too on the severity of the incident.

Further, the company's policies would have to be enforced evenhandedly. Without male privilege.

Finally, the two situations are not comparable: a finger versus shouted nazi racist slurs.

X_Digger

(18,585 posts)
73. Bullshit
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 11:27 PM
Nov 2017

You know you'd fire him. As I expected, a 'but, but, but that's diiiiiferent!' response.

Both are protected 'speech'. (Protected from government interference, as the first amendment only applies to the govt.)



Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
74. Reread my post.
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 11:44 PM
Nov 2017

Reread the part where I say that the employee essentially would be fired and have to make a plea to stay on. "ball in their court".

Of course your hypothetical extreme case is different from the actual mild case in front of us.

But at this point further argument from you would seem to stem from a desire to argue since it is likely we both would have kept the woman on (like the man was kept on after his more overt offense linking Akima to "libtards" slur) and likely we would both fire or "let go" the nazi.

True Dough

(17,305 posts)
37. Great idea
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 10:33 AM
Nov 2017

But she would need the permission for commercial use of the photo. That could be a deal-breaker, unfortunately.

Bernardo de La Paz

(49,002 posts)
26. Key point: male colleague did worse & was allowed to stay. Male privilege & political bias.
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 10:14 AM
Nov 2017

Male colleague made ugly political commentary ("libtards", etc.) in a way that linked it to the company name. He was allowed to erase the post and keep his job.

The woman, Juli Briskman, did not associate the company or company name in any way with her facebook post. She was fired.

Akima LLC aligned itself with Republicon Presidential politics.
Alignment of companies with government politics is a hallmark of fascism.
Firing some for political views & not others is a hallmark of fascism.

riversedge

(70,235 posts)
30. she said a male employee kept his job after posting lewd comments on his social media.....
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 10:18 AM
Nov 2017

Seems the guys can do it but not the gals.




....Briskman, who worked in marketing and communications at Akima for just over six months, said she emphasized to the executives that she wasn’t on the job when the incident happened and that her social media pages don’t mention her employer. They told her that because Akima was a government contractor, the photo could hurt their business, she said.

Virginia is an employment-at-will state, meaning employers can fire people anytime and for any reason. But Briskman said what’s been particularly infuriating is that a male colleague kept his job after recently posting lewd comments on his Facebook page that featured Akima LLC as his cover photo. She said this colleague was reprimanded for calling someone “a fucking Libtard asshole” on Facebook, but was allowed to delete the post and keep his job.


“How is that any less ‘obscene’ than me flipping off the president?” she asked. “How is that fair?”

turbinetree

(24,703 posts)
44. Lets put this in perspective...................Akima, LLC gave money to one sexual predator
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 10:51 AM
Nov 2017

according to the FEC filings it was for $100.00, but still they gave $100.00 dollars.

http://docquery.fec.gov/pres/2016/30G/C00580100/A_EMPLOYER_C00580100.html

This is what the sexual predator said and did on a tape........................

Your double standard should be called out, you donated to a man that said and did this to a woman......................as some conquest of a joke, bravado or some malignant accomplishment...............





So what is your profile there Akima LLC, I mean what is your Business Ethics and Code of Conduct ---------------supporting a sexual predator of women...................you gave him and his organization $100.00 to condone his actions, while he was out in public, after all $100.00 is nothing when it comes to woman, and there rights to be protected ----------right

So now---------Akima, you have been granted judge , jury and executioner for actions while someone is in public , why didn't you hold those same "values" to a asshole that bragged about attacking women, so she expressed her personnel values


If I see the asshole in public and give him the big finger and big shout out to go fuck himself, do you think I should lose my benefits?




Blue_Adept

(6,399 posts)
62. Like most things, you never hear about the good things
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 02:03 PM
Nov 2017

The support people get, the connections, the romances that are born from it. I've had a lot of very positive but that's also because I put positive into it, not negative.

 

certainot

(9,090 posts)
53. i wonder at what point the talk radio gods weighed in and got calls rage at akima
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 11:43 AM
Nov 2017

that's how it usually works

ffr

(22,670 posts)
54. Shame on Akima LLC for going political. Freedom of expression is no longer tolerated.
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 11:46 AM
Nov 2017

Deplorable behavior on their behalf.

Boycott.

treestar

(82,383 posts)
57. What is her job title?
Mon Nov 6, 2017, 12:18 PM
Nov 2017

Or occupation - whatever she does, there are likely more employers that would hire her because of her action.

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