The MSM is calling the "good guy with a gun" who confronted Kelley AFTER the SHOOTING WAS OVER a "hero" for "preventing more dead."

The only "future victim" in Kelley's mind was HIMSELF. When it comes to "preventing more dead," the "good guy with a gun" was a complete failure.

This guy chased him. I'm not going to rag on this guy...regardless, he sprang into action and tried to help....then got in his vehicle to follow him. I see no reason to fault him.

Your fantasy about him going somewhere else to continue his carnage is just that - fantasy.

What I'd like to know is what kind of rifle the neighbor had.

He very well could have went to their house. We had someone here do that. Went after 2 he had a grudge against. Hr knew he was going to jail so settled all his beefs.

He probably expected her to be at the service..

Being that he didn't kill his ex-wife or her mother who seemed to be the fuel of his anger, you absolutely don't know what or where he was going next.

I don't think it was a good idea for this other dude to chase him, but for you to be so rude as to lecture another poster as if you know better what happened in this psycho's mind is absurd.

How was he supposed to know that the shooter was out of ammo for his semi-automatic weapon? I'm impressed by his courage, but I'm glad he wasn't turned into a killer as well.

He sprayed 400 rounds in the church and left because his mags were on empty.

I heard he had handguns in his vehicle.

There's plenty to talk about here without ragging on folks who did right...

Get off your high horse...

It takes major courage to put yourself in the line of fire under any circumstances.

I do have a problem with the "good guy with a gun stops a bad guy with a gun" NRA-inspired narrative that is being swallowed by the media. As the authorities have stated, this was a targeted attack, not just random violence. It stopped because the murderer's objective had been achieved.

I apologize if I was unclear.

He targeted that specific church because of its connection to his wife's family.

Get real.

His next stop may have been her house, but we'll never know.

And find the intended target or more people close to/associated with them.

I don’t think this guy was finished.

Until he was.

Drive calmly to the nearest police station and turn himself in?

Even the best-case scenario would have him engaging police in a shootout.

Apparently he told his dad he was hit and didn’t think he’d survive. Then he blew his brains out.

just to make sure their gun is working. That's always my advice.

It's like it has become a "fashion" of sorts to take others with you - if he decides to kill himself, no one else has to go. Like all these shootings and that pilot who took the German plane down.

They don’t kill themselves first because in their minds they have a score to settle with those who wronged them. They could also be suffering and want to drag others down with them. If they are going to commit suicide, they have nothing to lose by killing others first. Their victims’ deaths are a “bonus” to them. The killers get to exert power over others that they’ve never had.

If your question was rhetorical, I apologize.

...the sad fact is that a large number of guys who blow their brains out probably contemplated taking people out with them and decided not to. We hear about the mass killers, the family killers, because they were the ones who wanted to take someone down with them, and did so. We don't hear much about the deceased man who had a family who killed himself in a hotel room.

Last edited Mon Nov 6, 2017, 06:15 PM - Edit history (1)

He said he phoned his father, told him he had been shot and didn't think he'd make it.
The guy who drove the one who stopped the gunman said they don't know if they hit him. Killer lost control of the vehicle which suggests that he had been shot.
I was more than puzzled when he said that he killed himself.

He knew he was shot and bleeding, soon he would pass out.
The two people chasing him meant he couldn't get to help without police learning where he was.
He feared prison more than death so before or after crashing he shot himself to ensure he died rather than be taken into custody and getting medical attention.

Saying that it was self-inflicted removes any need for them to bring charges of any kind against hose two.

Which no one wants.

A couple posters here seem to have an odd amount of sympathy tor a man that slaughtered a dozen children.

But to each their own.

And even if it was the citizen who responded who shot him I don’t see a snowballs chance in hell of any charges under Texas law.

According to the presser I just watched.

He did not want to be taken alive..

One was to the head.

Not to say that one of those other shots might not have be fatal.

By the neighbor at the scene.

Haven't seen a description of those wounds yet.

Some quick-draw artist...

The problem is that 27 people were already dead.

The guy came running with his own rifle from across the street when he heard gunshots and risked his life to stop the shooter from leaving. He was there within a minute or two of the first shot fired. You make it sound like he was in the church just kicking back while the shooter attacked.

There are a lot of bad people to rag on in this tragedy. This guy isn't one of them. I don't care if it feeds the "good guy with a gun" mythos the GOP loves so much; it stopped more bloodshed and innocent lives lost.

I am amazed at how many people want to criticize or all bad about a person who risked his life to help others because he wasn’t instant or perfectZ

I wonder how many people criticizing him have ever done something anywhere close to as dangerous or stressful solely to help others in danger, since they are so perfect to throw stones at how they man performed.....

The kind of selfless courage to run toward gunfire and screams is pretty damn amazing.

I'm sure he wishes he's have been a couple minutes faster and could have ventilated the bastard's brain-bucket and saved a few innocent lives.

I don't think he earned an eye-roll emoji.

Than the police

n/t

Go to your room and come back when you are ready to talk with the adults...

I swear...

Unfortunately, so are the 'good guy with a gun' types. They actually believe that if everyone goes around packing, it will prevent gun massacres.

This is pretty clear, positive proof that this is not the case.

So he shot the perp. So what? It was too late to do any good.

And the 'he might have been on his way to commit another massacre' argument is a pretty callous way of ignoring the victims.

There are arguments for and against by what percentage increases or decreases in the amount of guns will affect things.

28 dead is preferable to 29 dead... That's a fact and does not ignore the 28.

We need to elevate our standards for heroes. At this stage, working for comprehensive, enforceable gun regulation could be considered an act of true heroism. Considering the frightening array of evil forces allied against such a person.

... and there is a statistically significant chance that a civilian could help end one of these mass shootings. As we just saw...

That isn't the case for legislative solutions that eliminate the threat.

... wait, what?

These "good guy with a gun" narratives are so damned stupid.

Denying the apparent truth because it might help the pro gun cause is disingenuous.

If neither of them were armed with military style weapons the people in that church would still be alive. That is the point we need to make.

Ok, got it. From killing number 28, 29, 30. Need I go on? The killer shot up the church but did not find his ex or his inlaws. So he was leaving. And the heroic guy across the street puts a bullet in him. Then chases him as he leaves.

The reason he killed himself appears to be because he was injured and could not go on.

Do not confuse my ability to see events as they happened with thinking it ok to own these weapons. It is crazy we allow it. But I have admiration for anyone putting their ass on the line to prevent the continuation of a heinous crime.

Is really not that hard a concept. I’m amazed people lack the ability to comprehend it.

they just don't want to admit it. Destroys their narrative.

could have stopped the carnage before there were nearly this many fatalities. As it is the first ten deaths are virtually assured anytime a nut want to kill as many people as he wants - with or without any good guys with guns being around to stop them.