PC cop in the country is limbaugh and then a few hundred parrots saying the same thing. they've been weighing in on every major case with political implications , tilting public opinion to turn molehills into mountains and mountains into molehills and dems/liberals keep letting them.

that's what 1500 radio stations are doing now - just like global warming is a hoax and tax breaks for billionaires will trickle down.

they're OUTRAGED by what franken did 10 years ago (an asshole thing) but have been excusing moore's child molestation and attacking his accusers.

the blowhards always weigh in on major cases on local and national level - polluting the juries. they need to be asked if they listen to a lot of talk radio and it should be cause for recusal.

I don't mean that he should suffer-- just that he's insightful enough and smart enough to lead a discussion of this phenomenon. It's too easy (a la Spitzer) just to suddenly resign and withdraw so that it's as if nothing really happened-- no one learns from it, except "don't get caught."
Many men are no doubt baffled by what is happening, esp since Trump got away with much worse. It's confusing. But Franken might be able to help us all sort through why some behavior was always wrong, and is now not just wrong, but could lead to disgrace instead of high-fives from the other guys in the crew.

As a self-identified radicalized (by life experience) feminist, I want Al Franken to stay where he is, and serve as a role model to help lead us out of this mess. So far, he’s doing a great job, and I plan to send him a token donation.

His apology has made it clear that he understands today that the "joke" was creepy and sexist. Many here are making it clear that they do NOT understand that even though this was a "joke," it was wrong. So he's more evolved than many here on this question.

I see no disgrace in the fact that he has come to understand something he did not understand before. And I fully expect that he will become one of our most effective voices against harassment of all kinds, even the "it was just a joke" bullshit kind.

Unrelated to the photo.

She says he did this, he seems to be saying he didn't. An inquiry in which both get a hearing might tell us which is true.

There should definitely be an inquiry.

doing it is that the Repubs are busy committing party suicide and we should continue to do our best not to distract from that.

Ms. Tweeden, of course, is 100% timely distraction. The same day the house passed a bill to largely empty out our treasury, sack Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid, and transfer $trillions to their dark-money donors. At that carrying away all they think they can get away with will leave us an additional $1.5 trillion in debt. Our bill. Their pockets.

so we need ALL of it on the record so we can say, "Yes. Whatabout. Here's the standard we set."

And the people coming forward now to say, "I was there. The kiss didn't happen that way," make it to our advantage to have them heard.

as one that expects basic standards to be met, not one that expects them to be ignored.

I understand the accuser doesn't want to testify(?) Someone correct me if that has changed.

would clear it up.

The inquiry that he requested.

what the accuser said it was.

He had sex with a prostitute. I don't think apologizing to the prostitute would have worked. He went through marital counseling and his wife has accepted that, until they later divorced in 2013. Although others my want him to have a public flogging, the two people most involved have agreed it's over.

I think he should have stuck it out, taken the criticism, done his job. I lost respect for him when he resigned, actually.

I don't see visiting a prostitute (if that is a free job choice by the woman) as the equivalent of assault. I understand it's complicated-- many prostitutes probably haven't freely chosen this job. But there's a consensuality involved here.

Whatever he and his wife had to work through isn't really our business. But there's nothing innate within visiting a prostitute that would get in the way of him doing his job.

when he resigned as well. Personally, I think it was a GOP set-up. Spitzer was cleaning up Wall Street and many other New York white-collar reprobates, LIKE TRUMP, when all this happened. The GOP wanted him gone BADLY, and Elliot fell for the bait. It's too bad. He was TOO GOOD at his job, and that's why he was targeted.

There was a great article in the NewYorker maybe eight years ago that gave great information on Stone and his dirty tricks.

Also good to remember is that he wasn't in the Senate or holding any government position at the time. He was working as a full on comedian.

Trump wasn't in office either, although obviously the things he admitted to and was accused of are far worse.

both in his businesses, and as the owner of the pageants.

Thing I fear most is there a lot of Right leaning female actors there who have turned solidly right... Many were on SNL..I'm hoping Al didn't fuck around with them way back then..And I mean fool around with them which they can now come out and call it an assault.

As those robo calls in Pedobamie

adequate proof of wrong-doing by the accused. I thought Wiener was a pig, I thought John Edwards was a pig, I thought Elliott Spitzer was a pig and I didn't defend any of them, but I am not willing to turn on Franken without a lot more proof that he actually did something wrong. He did something stupid, but there is no comparison to what some of these other men are doing to women, and their history backs up the claims of their accusers. Franken's does not.

This was a group of entertainers traveling for the USO. Most of these guys punked each other, esp when asleep, is what one of the gals on The Talk said (she'd traveled with entertainers, incl. Tweeden, for the USO).

This was not harassment or molestation, or abuse of power, or using a superior position to get something from an underling or someone with no power. Nothing. This was a joke.

Totally inconsequential, to me. I would not have been offended in the least.

These are the same individuals who express horror over the revelation that surgeons engage in gallows humor during hours of laborious work.

I suspect that every avocation which involves groups of individuals working closely together for long periods of time engages in some form of "unacceptable" behavior.

And I know that it's requisite among touring companies. This woman has lit a fire under the New Victorians by expressing outrage at what was likely one of a constant series of pranks. Not by accident, BTW.

I want a congressional ethics investigation. I believe Franken very purposely requested it.

I see how it would be a smart way to prove there is no other stuff that can be unearthed about him, but is there a reason beyond that for him to want it?

and anyone else who was there at the time.

What if it turned out that everyone except Tweeden agreed it was a gag?

Franken would be vindicated -- which might be why he called for an investigation.

Last edited Fri Nov 17, 2017, 12:22 AM - Edit history (1)

I still think the "gag" is unfunny and creepy, since it is assuming that a man groping a sleeping woman is funny, even though the groping didn't actually happen.

Many here seem to be saying it's OK if it's a joke and the groping didn't really happen.

I interpret his apology as saying he now understands that it isn't OK even to joke about groping a sleeping woman. That is an important distinction, and it may make me think better of him even than I did before.

and shouldn't be the subject of a joke.

How an act is meant isn't the same as how it is interpreted. If you'd like an example think about how guys defend cat calling as a compliment. Thinking about how somebody else might interpret your words/actions matters.

If it was a gag that even the woman participated in, then they both participated in a non-funny joke about sexual assault.

That seems more serious than the photo.

She has stated that she told her boyfriend...he'll need to be deposed. Bring it on.

It’s the right thing to do.

There are also clearly other reasons he might want it.

might have been) and that she gave permission.

Do you have other thoughts about what he might want from it?

As far as I can detect the timing she accepted his apology soon after she heard that there would be an investigation.

That would be mine. Looked her up. She's disgusting. Flaunts her bod for bucks. Not at all helpful to the feminist cause.

who exploit women for sexual purposes so, from my point of view, that makes her an anti-feminist pig.

There is nothing feminist about selling out womanhood to make a buck for yourself by be degraded and objectified in a glossy magazine.

She accepted his apology and, if I remember correctly, *doesn't* think there should be an ethics investigation. The second part concerns me - why would she not want an ethics investigation? I can think of a couple of reasons:

1. She honestly forgives him.
2. She will called to testify under oath in an investigation - and she may not want that. Other people who were at the skit rehearsal and who were present when the picture was taken will likely be called to testify as well. Their memories may be different from hers.

The apology was sincere and actually instructive.

She accepted it.

Done deal.

If Moore apologized and his victim's accepted the apology -- including the woman who was 14 at the time -- would we think that is case closed? Of course, Moore hasn't apologized, I'm just trying to understand why Dems aren't up in arms about this claim.

and what's alleged about Franken?

and I am not up in area because the whole case was thin...I have seen many worse photos from office parties. trying to rape 14 year olds is criminal and just wrong

we'd need to mercilessly harass him and run him out of the Senate tarred and feathered all based on her word only?

I don't care if she she says she forgave him or not. He was not touching her in that pic. It was joke. She knows it was a joke.

She is twisting an old joke for right winger political purposes 11 years later. She owes him an apology for being a Hannity/Stone tool.

I suggest you re-read his apology. Really think about what he is saying. He has things to teach you.

follow the Presidents lead on this.

That's why I think Franken's response has been effective and appropriate.

I agree totally. It's already a known fact she is a DJT supporter.............Oh ya, Moore is being held accountable so they have to find something, however ridiculous, to take the pressure off Moore!! This is their 'old game'. Thank God some of us have some common sense!!

And the apologies and to assess his character and the potential damage done,,,

Do we have to shout one way or the other, immediately? Personally I need time to absorb the incoming reporting and to process the conflicting emotions at play. People are allowed nuance.

I know what I want to believe, but I need to believe it on merit. So I'll wait for now.

I've been an Al Franken fan since the early days of SNL. That said, I believe Senator Franken should resign because of the latest revelations. True, his actions pale in comparison to that of ex-Judge Roy Moore. But we hold ourselves to a much higher standard.

When they go low, we go high.

And that worked really well for us.

The high road may be bumpy at times, but the journey and the destination are worth it.

We get hammered and get everything taken away including our Healthcare.

Yes, so tired of this "going high" bullshit. It gets us nowhere.

...analyze the photo, because what I've seen looks like his hands are actually NOT ON THE FLAK JACKET OR HER BREASTS. Then, they need to PUT EVERYONE UNDER OATH, including the photographer and ask them about the circumstances.

Sorry, "when they go low, we go high" just doesn't cut it in these circumstances. We should be slamming the fucking traitors and their sycophants with everything we got.

Oh no, it's time to get FUCKING NASTY.

BTW, welcome to DU. Enjoy your stay.

Honestly, I'm still trying to sort through my thoughts on this. When I first read a facebook post about it, a comment said that he "fondled her breasts" while she was asleep and it was captured in a pic. Then I saw the actual pic and it doesn't look like that at all. It looks like he is (stupidly) posing for the camera and acting like his hands are over her breasts but she is wearing a flack jacket and it doesn't look like his hands are even in contact with the flack jacket. It seems like something that was stupid and could be insulting to a person, but if his hands aren't even in contact with the flack jacket, it is quite a stretch for a lot of the headlines and outrage IMO.

hard left demanding Franken resign. I guess you haven't seen it, I have because I was sent one.

Read more about this case.

And examine the photo more closely.

👋

But thanks for your concern.

his resignation.

L.I.E.
H.I.T J.O.B.

and the lady has accepted his apology. Hopefully no other women will come forward

Randi Rhodes has worked at Air America for years with Al. She said he just would kiss everyone on the month hello. She said it was never sexual. Never was a complaint for yrs by anyone.

No double standards, and no preemptive surrender.

I'm pretty sure that you already know how BS that suggestion is.

Try to set the bar higher for yourself as well.

Very interesting.

Is exactly what we should quit doing, anyone who is still naive enough to think that this is some sort of school yard dust up and should be played on an even field needs to take a better look at the last 40 years of political history... as I was once told by some one who should know "if you find yourself in a "fair" fight you are doing something wrong."

False equivalency like this is as phony as the rest of the repug party

FUCK NO

is what I say

Franken for president any day!

If some additional info comes out, we'll see. I doubt it will.

This is a Republican diversion from the tax bill and the awfulness of the Republican Party and its leader.

👍

Im not comparing Moore to Franken at all, but how are we to be the party that stands for victims of sexual assault if we let Franken off the hook. His resignation would do much more good for the party. If he doesn't, it becomes a talking point that gets thrown in our faces every step of the way until midterms.

Why are you excusing Franken?

At some point this starts to become ridiculous. No, he shouldn't have done it. But the picture is less offensive than the kiss she says he gave her. but no, its not the same as the offenses Moore is accused of doing

but still expect way more of theirs. If you would have asked me which of ours I would most hate to see it be, it would have been Al.

In that pic, he's no doubt showing the young guys around he's an old horn dog too. Stupid of course, but the kind of thing some guys do/did, shit that needs to stop. About the rehearsal story, no telling. I'd love to believe it's bullshit.

I also predicted just the other day, Gannon might get "O'Queef" to gin something up. I expected it to be a false accuser of Moore though, one he could blow out of the water and point to as evidence of phony allegations. A woman having a dumbass pic like this could very well be gotten to invent the rehearsal story.

Of course we are supposed to believe them all, to not because it's one of ours is a double standard.

the same way that Donald Trump was punished.
So that means we should make Al Franken the President.

and he has apologized, I forgive him. If this is a stupid thing he does, if this is one of many stupid things of this kind, if eight or sixteen women come forward with similar stories, then he will resign.

don't care who they are, dem, repug, citizen, no one should pull that crap. If she can forgive him thats fine, I do believe he feels bad about what he did and probably has grown as a human being since then, unlike tRUMP.

Let Tump and Moore testify in front of Ethics Committee!!! Geez crap, Repigs lie and Democrats go on trial, what BS.

i also feel that the fondler in chief should resign along with all of his administration along w his party in both houses .

Beginning to wonder about some “supposed Dems” here.

Franken is a good guy.

. . .and statutory rape.

An apology accompanied by honest reflection.
There is humbled, painful, self-improving character...
And then there are the Moores and Cretins of the world...

And what I view as a serious cultural gender problem cheapened by a smack job from politically motivated jerks.

Yes, Al shouldn't have done this but good God! Compared to Trump and Moore this is nothing.

The Repubicans will try to magnify this far beyond its actual meaning. This we already know. Let's just chill and wait for the news cycle to renew as it always does.

...if whatever Franken and Moore are determined to have done merits resignation/prosecution/censure.

I think it's too early for me to demand a resignation, but it's also too early for me to clear Franken for the Senate. We'll see.