General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThis is so complicated, folks. Take just the Franken situation
The news breaks in the media.
First question - do we take it at face value? What part of it - all of it, some of it - is true? Do we consider the context?
It is an extremely sensitive topic - any time a woman accuses a man - or vice versa - of an abuse like this, it has to be taken seriously.....IF it is reported correctly. IF the accuser is being honest.
But - wait - we find out that the picture could have been altered. We find out what these USO shows are like. We find out that Roger Stone seems to have his fingerprints on this - was it a set up? Does it matter - should it? - that the accuser is a Trump supporter? Or appears often on Hannity?
We all go through the fog of news at light speed - Slate, within hours, calls for Franken to step down. Gilliband comes out and said that Bill Clinton should have stepped down.
We get into the "going high vs going low" discussions - the hypocrisy aspects (how does the Franken allegations compare to Moore? or Trump?) Should it matter - shouldn't each and every allegation get treated with equal rigor? Of course - but IF we are being presented with the facts, not altered information.
Franken comes out and issues a quick apology - the apology is examined - taken apart in the media - was it done in good faith? Was it done honestly? Is it enough? Dems call for an investigation. Repubs call for an investigation - the spins and the outrage ensues. If he apologized, he must be guilty. But he is human, and from what we can tell, a pretty decent person - and he can see his political future start to crumble, perhaps....he knows what is going on, he knows the political climate.
Here at DU - I have to accept that the vast majority here post their opinions in good faith, based upon what we know at the time - but it is all moving so fast that some views, some posts become obsolete within hours.
Some of us don't know what to say. Or how to say it.
To me, it all comes down to one main thing - honesty/truth. I am in my 60s and have my own perceptions on how honesty/truth has been applied over my life. It just seems as though this is what we often lack these days, because of all of the gaslighting and polarization and us vs them fighting. Throw in our natural inclinations - Democrats like to talk things through, present data, information, we seem to like to defer, shoot ourselves in the foot, "be nice". Republicans - authoritarian, black and white, and these days, playing out some sort of revenge for - for what? For Obama being black? For the Clintons being smart and very able politicians?
I think what we are seeing playing out is one big huge right wing inferiority complex - they are wielding their power and destroying because we - the Democrats - represent things that they simply are not capable of. Decency, kindness, creativity, progress, equality.
Anyway - I didn't know where this would go when I started it, but my main point - this is so damn complicated. And we are all having to react to things that change by the hour - often by the minute. And we don't know what we can believe, or trust.
questionseverything
(9,656 posts)orangecrush
(19,572 posts)And don't believe a syllable of right wing bullshit.
Problem solved.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,015 posts)at DU discussing it because of the complexity.
orangecrush
(19,572 posts)Voltaire2
(13,068 posts)apologize and suggest that the Senate conduct an investigation.
NRaleighLiberal
(60,015 posts)rzemanfl
(29,565 posts)e.g., "I only did enough cocaine to stay awake and keep the others from hurting themselves." He knew that photo was out there and played it perfectly. Leeann wants to testify like she wants a breast reduction or a smaller magazine for her AR-15.
prayin4rain
(2,065 posts)janterry
(4,429 posts)And behaviors need to be understood in context. Apologies count. So does good faith effort.
Even so - some behaviors have consequences. It is, after all, a felony to assault someone.
FWIW, at this point, I'm accepting Franken's apology..............and I'm mindful that Moore not only hasn't apologized, he has attacked the victims as liars. (And, of course, his behaviors were on a different scale - to under-aged teens).
I guess we'll see what else unfolds. Over time, the truth will out .
NRaleighLiberal
(60,015 posts)That he is president despite the Access Hollywood material confirms to me that the election was stolen.
janterry
(4,429 posts)All of his lies (and his horrible behaviors) are done in plain sight. And the right elected him anyway? I just don't get it.
Xipe Totec
(43,890 posts)30's is harassment. 20's is abuse of power. 14 is criminal.
trof
(54,256 posts)C'mon people?
2. USO tours are notoriously on the raunchy side.
For the troops and for the performers.
3. Tweedon was no shrinking violet.
Check out her career.
Hooters, Playboy, Hannity, Fox
Oh jeez, I guess I'm in trouble again.
I got punished for suggesting that she wasn't a convent girl.
If you don't hear from me again you'll know why.
So long.
rzemanfl
(29,565 posts)I always approved Hooters girls. I knew they would get the money somehow.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)They get to sell the "everybody does it" line as their excuse. And we have seen how well it works. The mushy middle doesn't want to have to do any thinking to discern differences, and the Rethugs know that.