General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSo....how did alt-right troll Mike Cernovich get the documents he gave BuzzFeed about Conyers?
I am not going to defend Conyers' behavior.
But what I'm most curious about is how an alt-right troll best known for promoting ludicrous conspiracy theories got these documents.
He isn't really a journalist, though at the moment he's trying to use this scoop to raise money, asking for contributions for his "expensive" journalistic endeavors, claiming "real news is expensive to produce."
I doubt it cost him anything to be used to get those documents out, after someone with access to them chose to leak them.
I'd guess Bannon was involved, though simply to pass the documents along to Cernovich or to suggest that they be passed to him. Any accusations against Dems can be used to defend Roy Moore, whom Bannon has championed, and this story about Conyers is already being used to attack Paul Ryan, a favorite target of Bannon's, for "covering up" these stories.
But Bannon's so close to Trump it's probably safer to use an alt-right troll like Cernovich to be the "source." Even though Cernovich isn't really a source, let alone a journalist. He's simply the delivery boy in this case.
So who used him for this?
Initech
(100,081 posts)highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)Initech
(100,081 posts)Which is why I think Bannon is dangerous and I curse the fucking Mercers for unleashing this fucking asshole on us. And if you were to look up the word "tool" in the dictionary, you'd see Mike Cernovich's picture.
Stinky The Clown
(67,808 posts)OhioBlue
(5,126 posts)ProudLib72
(17,984 posts)If that is so, and there is no reason not to think it is, then the question is, How is he spreading the word that he wants to obtain dirt? I would suspect some compensation is being offered. There ought to be a trail of emails or money or both.
riverwalker
(8,694 posts)And who knows where else, what unlimited access he had to records.
KPN
(15,646 posts)leakers!" Everything goes back ultimately to the little fingered pussy grabber.
madville
(7,412 posts)Congress keeping these things secret is not how this is supposed to work. I don't care what party they are in, kick the perverts out and replace them.
brush
(53,788 posts)Denzil_DC
(7,242 posts)He passed the documents to BuzzFeed, he told them, because otherwise "Democrats and congressional leaders would 'try to discredit the story by attacking the messenger'". He knows his credibility was shot, and so did whoever provided them to him.
He's obviously a partisan hack with no evidence of interest (quite the contrary) in exposing abuse for non-political reasons.
Perhaps there's been a partial leak of at least some settlements involving Democrats (these would be federal employees in general, not necessarily senators and congressmen - 264 over 20 years, according to WaPo), and the idea is to get those out front and center before the rest get exposed, if that happens. (Or maybe it's a bluff and he just had Conyer's.)
2002 and 2007 were pretty bad years for settlements (the offenses would obviously have occurred before then), so I'm not sure what that tells us. Does it tie in with any of the election cycles, known major scandals or rumors, or am I missing something?
Whatever, there are RW efforts on Twitter to get the hashtag #unsealthedeals trending and put pressure on Paul Ryan.
It looks to me from what I've seen so far like it's an attempt to "own" the issue of countering abuse in Congress by the MAGA crowd and associates of Bannon and Cernovich.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)and some congressional staffer in a MAGA hat took him up on it. Cernovich probably got the money from Bannon.
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)I've found some apparent replies to it when it was first posted, like this one
Link to tweet
but haven't yet found the original tweet, which he might have deleted.
And yes, it has been deleted.
Just googled
cernovich $10,000
and the search results included a deleted tweet
Link to tweet
with Google's search results showing it was posted 5 days ago, and showing this text:
Link to tweet
5 days ago - I will pay $10,000 for the details of these settlements. Cash or BitCoin or check or whatever you want. Anonymity assured. I'll go to jail for a ...
Before I found that, I saw replies to Cernovich suggesting $10,000 wasn't enough to offer. I wouldn't be at all surprised if someone like Bannon provided more money.
octoberlib
(14,971 posts)too but won't release it.
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)I've done some more checking and apparently he's often offered $10,000 for any dirt he can use to promote himself via some "scoop." So this is why he thinks journalism is "expensive."
I'm still skeptical that he engineered this leak himself with his paltry offer. I think it's more likely that someone with much more power and money arranged the leak and Cernovich is the front for it, or the cut-out.
Denzil_DC
(7,242 posts)a site for IDing alt-right and Russian Twitter trolls "propagating material that originated on Russia-based accounts". I don't use it a whole lot, but I've only seen 10/10 once before (Cernovich, e.g., only scores 5/10).
https://makeadverbsgreatagain.us/mlp/
The site warns it can make mistakes 1/20 times.
I'm not saying that Vlad's behind all this, but it looks like the alt-right/Russian botnet mixed in with real MAGA types is heavily involved. Not really surprising.
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)Denzil_DC
(7,242 posts)They're hitting that #unsealthedeals hashtag pretty hard right now.
I don't know how much is relevant to what you're doing. It's rabbithole after rabbithole out there at the moment.
I'm going to take a step back for a while and watch the dust settle, I think.
I'm not clear why Cernovich deleted those tweets. Is he in the habit of doing that?
Nice guy, in case anybody didn't realize, BTW:
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)Link to tweet
Again, this is something that helps Bannon's agenda. And publishing leaked documents like this might be too hot for Bannon to risk at Breitbart at the moment. He would need a cut-out like Cernovich.
As for Cernovich deleting tweets -- I have no idea how often he does that. He posts so much garbage I rarely look at his Twitter feed, only at occasional posts of his that pop up when I'm checking for various keywords/names, or seeing him retweeted by John Schindler, who understandably has complete contempt for Cernovich.
As for why that Cernovich tweet in particular was deleted...I'd like to know what he wrote completing the sentence beginning "I'll go to jail..." Maybe he decided it wasn't too bright to boast about his willingness to go to jail. Or he might have simply hoped that getting rid of the tweet would make it less likely people would hear he'd offered money for leaked information.
Denzil_DC
(7,242 posts)Some are including Pelosi.
I've just been looking at Schindler, too. There's a string of Twitter feeds a mile long in my bookmarks, and I may have a dig around some of them unless it all gets too much.
I was wondering whether Cernovich was specifically deleting tweets about the $10,000 for some reason.
"I'll go to jail ..." ended up not being very hard - I just Google searched on Cernovic "I'll go to jail" and this came up in Google cache (there are two results on his twitter feed that come up first on my system):
https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:zTy7rO2pFpQJ:
Link to tweet
+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
(EDIT: Urgh. DU's software messes with embedded tweet URLs, so you'll have to do the same search I did rather than following that URL.)
I can't copy and paste from the cache, but it reads:
If you're privy to this type of info, I don't need to tell you how to find me. twitter.com
3:29PM - 16 Nov 2017
The second deleted tweet is a follow-up shortly after where he quotes that one and offers a "sliding scale" depending on the details provided etc. You can see who replies to him, but that may not tell us anything at all.
Denzil_DC
(7,242 posts)May not come to anything, but: https://twitter.com/@michaeldaudel
He has a link in his profile to http://jupiterbrain.com/ - at the moment it's just a "coming soon" page. I don't know whether that's going to be the whistleblowing site, or something unrelated.
Initech
(100,081 posts)We need to start following the money.
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)Denzil_DC
(7,242 posts)I've been suspicious that this attempt to fundraise via Twitter could just be a way of adding a "populist" gloss to all this, or even laundering funding.
It seems Cernovich has a reputation for always trying to get people to chip in to support his "journalism" anyway, so maybe it's just the way he rolls.
Putting out his "appeal" for leakers on Twitter could also be cover for their already having a source.
Given what's at stake, the social media account of a discredited troll and the offer of what isn't actually a great deal of money in return for the risks seems a bit random as a way to get someone who presumably is still a federal employee to cough up the goods.
TheRealistRealist
(180 posts)To all the appalled billionaires, Steyer, Branson, Buffet, Gates and others:
It's time to put your money where your mouth is. These Steyer ads are a vanity project. He could have done so much more to help the cause with that $20 mill and he knows it. Dig up the apprentice tapes, the kompromat tapes and anything else. Time to get in the mud
Response to highplainsdem (Original post)
Name removed Message auto-removed
Not Ruth
(3,613 posts)TheRealistRealist
(180 posts)If they Alt Right were so concerned about sexual assault, they would start with their president. They are using these documents to to get rid of powerful Dems before the midterms. I in no way support sexual harassment. I want all of offenders revealed. But this reeks of a hit job against Dems. If no super conservative alt rights names are on this payout list, then my suspicions will be confirmed.
Also, liberals need to be more aggressive. We have become so passive. Why are these hashtags not on twitter?
'WhereisMariaTrump'
'Don'tWeaponizeMyRape' ,
''CernovichWhyNotTrump'
'CernovichStartWithTrump'
highplainsdem
(49,004 posts)-- the charge was reduced to misdemeanor battery for which he had to do community service -- and who's infamous for saying there's no such thing as date rape, that it's a "liberal fiction."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Cernovich
This is about leaking documents harmful to Democrats, and using Cernovich as a cut-out to protect the real source and initiator of this leak, someone more powerful who's trying to protect or rehabilitate his image.
I still think Bannon's the most likely source of this. The obvious news site for Cernovich to take his scoop to would have been Breitbart, which has been trying to help Cernovich's pathetic image since Bannon left the WH and returned to his sewer as head sewer rat. Slimy and disreputable as Breitbart is, it's been trying very hard for months to promote Bannon as a "populist hero" and a "force of nature" (wording from Breitbart headlines and a book about Bannon promoted on Breitbart) and some sort of grand philosopher of the right whose every ludicrously pretentious or childishly pugnacious utterance is drooled over and exalted by Breitbart writers. Of course they'd want this story on Conyers out, but they wouldn't want to be accused of engineering the leak.