between feeling up a 14 year old and a hand brushing your ass for a couple of secs during a photo op.

The allegation isn't that he brushed against her ass.

at the Minnesota State Fair. That's just asking to get punched in the face and guaranteed to get lots of media coverage.

stop. Period.

Men, women, and children need to be safe and comfortable going about their daily business.

It is way past time for our society to evolve to a higher level of conduct.

Protection of of the jerks ultimately translates to protection of worse jerks. If one is to be truly supportive of the people who have been affected by sexually predatory or discomforting actions all need to be held accountable.

They may both act the same way in the beginning.
Women shouldn't have to keep evaluating their environment for safety.

I don't think we can impose zero tolerance on all 'inappropriate' sexual behavior, especially on the lower end of the scale where it's hard to say what is and isn't sexual. Is a hand on the waist welcomed when you're off balance, or wrong? Is he standing to close? Is he leaning in too close during a conversation? These things can be sexy as hell, and they can also be totally non-sexy.

And people will flirt, that is human nature.

But I think that at work and in professional settings I would not like someone crowding my personal
space by standing too close. And no, a hand on my waist is not OK, unless you are pulling me from out
in front of a train or something.

When I was young and attractive, men seemed to do the things you mention, and they stared a lot. I didn't like it unless it was on a date with someone I was very interested in....

I didn't crowd men or put my hands on them on a routine basis like men do to women.

But I welcome the dialogue about all of it, I think it is important.

When I was young and attractive I worked in a profession that traditionally was a man's trade, so I was surrounded by men all day long. I didn't flirt with my co-workers or my boss, and they didn't flirt with me, and I would have thought nothing of one of them grabbing me around the waist to steady me. Maybe I'm just clumsy and get off balance a lot! In any case, I don't mind being touched and I tend to touch (hug) people for the slightest reason. I don't mind people coming in real close to tell me things either. Those kinds of actions mean 'caring' to me, and they can get really sexy too, if you let them, but I never had a problem with that. I can read people well, so I'm sure that helped, but most of all I treated them like my bothers and I expected them to treat me like their sister.

I have only been harassed by men that I didn't know, never by men that I did know. And I'd like to say that I've always enjoyed the company of good men. I love their their kindness, their protectiveness, and their good nature.

So, while we're thinking of what is or isn't sexual harassment, maybe we need to think about personality types too. I think there are some women who honestly want very clear guide lines about what is and isn't sexual harassment. Then at the other extreme, there are women like me who will always write their own rules if they can get away with it.

I would be horrified if a man at work grabbed me around my waist.
And not like it if he crowded me. I need space or I feel invaded.
As I got older, I got less attention and it felt much better for me.

So yes personality type plays into all of this...

And yes a good man is a joy to behold.

She is in her early 50s, a lifelong bartender/server, and a tough lady. We were just discussing this phenomena. She said she has certainly been harassed in various ways. Some touchy feally, lots of verbal as a bartender, and then what she called "classless but not offensive." What she meant by that was dirty jokes, innuendo, etc.

I asked her how she deals with it. She said the few actual touchy feally times she literally told the person "If you do it again I will pound your balls into a pile of mush." She said both times it stopped right there. As for the overt verbal stuff, as a bartender, she just dealt with it and moved on mostly. If over the top she would tell them to stop. If not, she'd kick them out. As for innuendo and dirty jokes she said "It's a fucking bar. If I can't deal with it I should do something else."

It was an interesting conversation.

consequences.

Your friend is lucky that she can kick out men who cross a line.
Others cannot.

A patron could tell a manager or be friends with a manager, owner, etc. As she said (not me saying) woman need to stand up taller to this crap and more often.

The burden should be on men to respect woman and act appropriately.

My .02.

Her point was however, herself as an example, need to start speaking up more loudly as well.

between stone and Gilbert.

Apparently she embarrassed his at some function, he decided to get even with her.

Stone wrote a special scene, just for her audition. She was to get down on her hands and knees and say "The whole scene was just my character on her hands and knees saying, ‘Do me, baby.’ Really dirty, horrible," Gilbert said. "Then he said, 'I'd like you to stage it for me.'” She left.

Stone's sole purpose was to degrade and humiliate her. Was it illegal, no. She never said it was. He used his power and sex to degrade her.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/people/2017/11/21/melissa-gilbert-says-oliver-stone-humiliated-her-in-audition-for-the-doors/884074001/

Grown ass single man had no business at a teenage dance recital.

He is a predator.

One of the things that worries me is that predatory behavior will be minimized to the point it's watered down to nothing more than being "a jerk."

There is this line, as well. That far too many people will look at this current tide and trivialize it merely as a distraction to their own political narratives.

I fear there is a danger people will use any excuse to rationalize harassment as merely a ploy, a ruse or a distraction from their own concerns.

Women have more courage to speak out.
And men are facing consequences.

someone abusing their power over someone is a predator, whether it is sex, money, or just ego building by putting someone else down.
a grown man and a teenager, a powerful boss and an underling, or someone that needs help from someone w more resources, exploiting any of those things make you an evil human.

i dont see any of that in the franken allegations.

Men just being male can be intimidating.

They are bigger and stronger and you don't really know what they are going to do if you
tell them to stop being a jerk.